the prado to small for a family doing the CSR?

[fat belly dog]

Hello,

Looking at getting a 120's Prado, will it be to small for a trip up the canning stock route with two adults and three kids under 10? I am an experienced tramper/hunter so can pack light for food and equipment (you soon learn when you have to carry every thing on your back ). Looking at the petrol V6 and going off explore oz figures I am thinking an extra 40-60 litres would see us to well 33.

Have owned a 1999 glx snowy in the past as well as a hj60. Looking fwd to getting back into 4wd.

Cheers

Shane

[404pug]

Just done the CSR in June but yet to write my trip report. V6 auto VX. Worst consumption was 22 l/100 k in a section with 400 dunes but if you strike mud like in the trip report just up this could blow out. I had a total of 300l on board for the top end and 260 for the bottom end - 6 jerries across where the middle row of seats were, ratchet strapped down. No room for the Kids in that scenario but I did not want weight on the roof- only had the rack and the 2nd spare wheel up there. The tops of many dunes are badly chopped up and tend to throw you very roughly from side to side- I wouldn't like 80kg up there on the roof when this happens.For 5 people you will need up to 80+ l of water as well.Add in food for 5 for about 3 weeks plus spares plus plus..... and it all adds up. I saved 85 kg by getting rid of the middle and back rows of seats but with 5 you are stuck with the middle row [and about 50 kg] plus the weight of the kids.As one who travelled a lot when my 3 kids were young I know how much you have to carry.
Unfortunately I would say for you to do this great trip you will need a Troopy or a Land Rover Defender dual cab to carry the fuel, water, food ,spares, clothes, camp gear and kids. Anything else will be grossly overloaded for what is a very serious trip in very rough country. Do the trip but get the right vehicle for your special circumstances. Allow about 3 weeks for Wiluna to BIlliluna -about 120-130 km most days and up to 6 hours plus per day. The Prado was great but your load would kill it. Hire a Troopy for the trip?????
The trip is fine in a Prado for 2 people but weight is a car killer in rough country like this. Hope this helps. Neil

[AJ120]

We are planning a CSR trip next year, we will be taking the camper trailer which would help in your situation with extra space, fuel consumption with a V6 would be a big issue though.

Cheers Andrew

[Bushbasher]

I've just done 4 weeks away with only me in the car. The back was full: Engel, BIG esky (full of ice), little esky full of beer, clothing, cameras, recovery gear. Camper trailer was full of food, fuel, water, comfort items (read more beer).

If the missus had come she could have sat in the front passenger seat but I would have had to move the cameras.

Seriously, 2 adults and 3 kiddies plus food, fridge, water, clothing, sleeping gear, tents, cooking gear, recovery gear, entertainment items for kids, beer for dad, wine for mum, etc, etc you just won't fit it all in. No room for spares, spare fuel, etc.

We had to recover a Victorian family of 5 who had rolled the Patrol just north of Warburton. It was absolutely full of all manner of camping gear and food, clothing, 80 litre Engel, solar panels, recovery gear, spare fuel on roof rack, 2nd spare tyre etc. I barely managed to fit all the gear into the rear of my troopy and that's after the locals pilfered half the stuff from the wreck!

Ask yourself just how much the kids are going to enjoy the trip. Under 10 years they will be bored senseless and will be fighting and kicking all the way. Either leave them at home or do the trip later when the kids are a little older and can really enjoy the experience. I've taken kids to the far ends of this continent at all stages of their lives so I speak from expeience.

[StormyKnight]

Yep I can't see how this will work. I've just returned from a trip to Fraser with 4 kids & myself (Eldest sat in the front).

This is the list we took & the rear was packed within 15cm of the roof (only soft stuff up there as we have no cargo barrier)
Nylon Tent (smaller than canvas)
Tent Fly
Shovel
Fold up Table
Gazebo
Gazebo floor mat
Tool Box
60L box with airbag, fluro torch, inverter & misc 12V adapters
60L box with 8x5m tarp, gazebo sides, ocky straps (20), tent peg bags x2, hammer
60L Food box
60L Cooking Box (Frying pans, 2 x gas cookers, plates, cups, extra gas cans, cleaning stuff, utensils, tongs, can opener etc etc)
Esky
5xPillows (Kids sat on theirs to save space)
5xSleeping Bags
5xclothes bags
5xfoldup chairs
5xwet weather jackets
1 set adult gumboots (kids wore theirs)
1xcamera bag
1xrecovery bag containing snatchum strap, D shackles
1x airhose for compressor, tyre pressure gauges etc all jammed in the rear door pocket
4x 5l Water containers
1xbag in the front for what we took into the cabin/motel each night on our way up & back (Saves trying to find that stuff in the back!)

If you had one of those roof cargo boxes, you could fill that with all the soft / lighter stuff & gain some more space, but you would definitely need a cargo barrier to use the space to the roof safely.

Cheers

[hulbyw]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but............ Did the CSR last year with my wife and all the seats except the front seats removed and replaced with shelving including 2 cargo bariers. We were packed to the roof plus an alloy roof rack on with a spare tyre and 60 litres of diesel. We went South to North and when we reached Well 33 we had about 30 litres of diesel left (so we used 210 litres from Wiluna to Well33) We had 60 litres of water plus some cask water for drinking. No room for beer! Managed to squeeze in a few wine casks. Our 120 Prado was the smallest vehicle in our group. Everyone else was packed full as well, including a hired Troopy that was cavernous.
The only way I can see you doing the CSR with 3 children is to tow a camper and that will raise a whole host of issues as well (no trailers permitted on a small part of the CSR) plus the camper would need to be absolutely top quality to withstand all the corrugations.
The CSR is an amazing and wonderful challenge but I would not recommend it with 3 children in the back seat unless you can go in a group and get your friends to carry some of your gear, food and water.

[maxjj]

have you considered taking an off road trailer or even a camper trailer. I know they are a pain to tow etc, but if you are going to do more trips might be a worthwhile investment.
You are on a holiday after all, so some creature comforts may well be appreciated and there is the safety margin of being able to carry extra food, water and fuel.

[fat belly dog]

Thanks for the replies, I thought we might be pushing the prado for space, Not interested in towing a camper trailer up the CSR. I think it could be done, just without the luxuries....like beer and wine and nintendos.. We do have a roof rack pod so could get light weight camping gear onto the RR. Not sure if I can wait the 11 years to get rid of the kids...do they ever leave home nowadays anyway? Kids are great travellers they have done a 6 month trip around NZ in a 6m bus without TV or toys...loved every minute of it

I have helicoptered into the bush with food and equipment weighing 30 kgs for ten days (not including water). There is some awesome light weight camping gear and dyhyd food available. We normally allow 1kg food/day per adult so for 3 weeks I would be looking at ~100kgs food, 80kgs water and 80kgs fuel and 100kgs spare tires and recovery gear... so already getting close to payload with out the kids or camping gear or spares... Water and fuel are the biggest concerns.

May even just do part of the CSR five to ten days return or something along those lines, southern section etc. Holland track is another option for a family holiday in the bush.

Not keen on buying a troopie for a one off trip, what about a LC 100 or 80 series or patrol, is the payload that much more than the prado? I remember there wasnt a hell of alot of difference between the 90's Prado and My LC60's in boot space, bit wider but only 100mm or so.

Cheers FBD

[pjorek]

My dad's got a GU patrol and we went with similar sort of calculations for how much weight each vehicle could carry (GDM) and both vehicles ended up with something like 700kg to 800kg with one driver included, so there was not a lot of difference between them

mind you this is all for insurance purposes if anything goes wrong, for weight GU could probably carry bit more weight than the prado

[Bushbasher]

More weight (bigger car with bigger payload) generally means more fuel. It becomes a no win situation.

As for dehyds - you soon get sick of the buggers and start craving for a steak. Not to mention the extra water needed to prepare them and the extra water that they make you drink afterwards. (We had them in the army and they soon got rid of them).

You'll have no water for personal washing unless the whole family shares the one bucket bath. How many weeks without a dobe? 5 woos mats, 5 sleeping bags, 5 pillows and a tent/tarp will almost take up the whole of the rear by themselves.

Many vehicles travelling the CSR and other major tracks are usually only crewed by 2 people for the simple reason that the back, and also quite often the top, are packed with camping gear and supplies just sufficient enough for the 2 occupants only. Without hotels, supermarkets, service stations, etc you are totally self sufficient unless you can con the SES into following you with their catering/supply truck!

This trip needs careful consideration and planning and should be undertaken in company with a couple of other travellers in order to provide with a fall-back transport ability should something go wrong in a big way (mechanically speaking).

We often have to go out and rescue back-packers in their "wicked" vans or Asian tourists in their rental Taragos who think they can negotiate the CSR, Gunbarrel or whatever simply because the fat coloured line on the map indicated that the particular track was a major road! "What's that you say - the nearest place to buy a tyre for my car is Perth or Alice Springs?" Or "This car is supposed to be able to get at least 800km out of the tank, but we only got 300km up the track before running out of fuel." Or "What do you mean, there's no LPG beyond Laverton, what type of primitive country is this?" Or "My SatNav said to keep straight ahead for the next 1100km!"

[fat belly dog]

More weight (bigger car with bigger payload) generally means more fuel. It becomes a no win situation.


This trip needs careful consideration and planning and should be undertaken in company with a couple of other travellers in order to provide with a fall-back transport ability should something go wrong in a big way (mechanically speaking).

Thanks mate, thats why I am on here asking questions, might have to ditch the lids for a couple of weeks, or down size expectations and do a few days up and back. Appreciate the advise from people that have been on the track.

[PradoGXL08]

Hi All,

The CSR is a great trip to do, but I suggest you look at a Turbo Diesel Vehicle instead of a V6 Petrol.
The Turbo Diesel gives much better fuel economy even when loaded, compared to a V6 Petrol and also the low down Torque which is what you need not the Power.

I did the CSR in Land Rover Discovery Series 1, 15 years ago in a Group of 20 mixed Vehicles.
When we got to Well 23, the refuelling point, the Diesels were allocated 80L each, while the V6 and V8 vehicles took 180L

I have also done Cape York and 2 x Crossings of the Simpson, and I won't go on any trip without a Turbo Diesel Vehicle, purely because of Fuel Economy in the long run.

Since that time, I have had a L/R Discovery Series 2, L/R Defender, 1998 Model 3.0L Turbo Diesel Jackaroo, 2003 TDI 3.0L Nissan Patrol ST Diesel and now 2008 Toyota Prado 3.L TDI.


Stuart

[404pug]

Stuart- not sure that I agree with you about the need for a turbo diesel to do the CSR. I just did it in June with my V6 auto and the worst consumption was a section with 400+ dunes-23 l/100km. A D4D Hilux manual on the same section got 17 l / 100km, 100 ser turbo diesel 17 l /100km and troopy turbo diesels about 16 l /100km. Yes, better but not a lot. On the easier sections down south I got 14 l /100 km and the Hilux 10,100 ser 12. Virtually all dunes were done at 1500rpm in high range first-heaps of torque to increase speed if needed [but to be avoided if possible because lots of the dunes were chopped out and rough at the very top and threw you all over the place if you were too fast- a sure way to break the car] Neil