RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

[4xx4 Driver]

Hi folks,

I'm a late-comer to this thread, but having discovered it I've read it with interest. I discovered RanOx mid 2008 and fitted two units, one to my Prado for the aux battery and one to my van for its house battery. Like Crammy and others, I have been seriously impressed by both the product and the freely given, unbiased technical advice provided by the guys running the show.

Prior to the RanOx I had a conventional battery isolation system. When the isolator cut over, the van and the vehicle aux batteries were switched in and charged in parallel with the engine battery. The van's three-way fridge was powered from the van battery, which was supposedly being charged as we drove.

I discovered the need for the RanOx after a week-long camp at an unpowered National Park campground. Both the vehicle auxilliary battery (running the car fridge) and the van battery had been well used, but the van had recharged itself with solar to about 95%. The drive home was six hours and I expected the vehicle battery to have been pretty well fully charged. It wasn't. The van battery was down to about 60% charge, the aux battery was 12% and the crank battery was 22%. Clearly something was wrong.

To cut a long story short, during the subsequent investigation I learned all about the Prado's EMS-controlled charging system and its relatively low voltage output. I realised the need for a 12 volt-12 volt charger that could boost the Prado's low input, and at this point I found RanOx. I also learned that my wiring setup was in many ways less than optimal.

As I said, I ordered two RanOx's, one for the Prado and one for the van.

In earlier posts AlanR wrote

Other Prado owners have mounted under passenger seat,

and

Some Prado owners have reported that under bonnet batteries are reaching 50 deg. C with just engine-bay heating

Those other Prado owners may have been me

My Prado's aux battery is in the engine bay. The RanOx is under the passenger seat, with the input wiring coming through the firewall via the large grommet on the passenger side, thence across to the middle and down the centre console. The output wiring and battery temp sensor wire is via the centre console and under the dash to the large grommet on the driver's side.

Because I already had a Redarc isolator installed for my old setup, I kept it and changed my setup so that it works as follows:

I installed a load switching relay and re-wired the van's 3 way fridge so that it gets its 12 volt supply directly from the Anderson cable from the car (not via the van battery) and only when the car engine is running.

When the engine is off power to my shelf unit and car fridge is supplied by the aux battery. No power is going from the car to the van. If you're parked for a long time you have to remember to switch the van fridge to gas, and back to 12 volt before setting off again.

When the engine is running and the Redarc kicks in the load-switching relay does its thing and power to the shelf unit, car fridge and van is all supplied, by the Prado's primary system. The two RanOx's (one under the passenger seat in the Prado, one in the van) are also powered up. Both the aux battery and the van battery have no load and are being charged by their respective Ranox's. The van fridge is being powered through the Anderson cable.

It sounds complicated, but it's not and it works exceptionally well.

The most interesting thing is AlanR's second quote - the one about battery temperature. The following is NOT a criticism of RanOx. It is more a criticism of the 4WD accessories industry for ignoring a well-known issue.

My Prado's second battery is in the engine compartment, where Mr Tojo thoughtfully left space for it. It gets a lot of hot air from radiator fan blowby, to the extent that when ambient temperatures are above about 26 deg C the battery quickly heats up to over 50 deg and RanOx shuts down to protect the battery. That's fine as far as it goes, but what about when you're touring the Outback, it's hot and your car fridge has worked hard overnight to keep your beer cold, especially after you've been in there a few times and re-stocked it with hotties. Next day you set off, but after a couple of hours it's 40deg outside and your battery has long ago exceeded the 50 degress it's allowed and RanOx has shut down. You've got another 5 hours driving time ahead of you, none of which will be used to charge your battery. Say this happens for 3 or 4 or 5 days. Your beer's going to be warm, I'm afraid.

If you do some in-depth research, you'll find that lead-acid batteries should not be charged when they're hot - ie over about 50 degrees. One site I found said that charging hot batteries can reduce their life by 50%, and if you MUST charge them consult a battery-charging specialist. I did that and the best advice I received was "No-one has ever asked this before, why do you have a problem?"

The reason is that NO-ONE in the second battery industry monitors battery temperature or advises customers to do so. Maybe they rely on the very approximate temperature compensation provided by some charging systems - they measure alternator temperature, not battery temperature. RanOx is the first, in my experience, to do it properly. The whole second battery industry is either ignorant, or if it has the knowledge, puts the problem in the too-hard basket. I think it is the former and it works for them - they can sell you more expensive batteries more often.

How to address the problem? It's difficult - maybe that's why it's been ignored by those who should know better. You can join the mainstream and pretend it's not an issue. Unplug the sensor from the RanOx and let nature do its thing. It's a temporary fix, in that when the battery is well and truly cooked, you won't have to worry about charging it any more.

I've tried a baffle on the engine side of the battery, and moving the position of the sensor to minimise the effects of the fan blow-by directly onto the sensor, but with little success. My next step is to make a vented full enclosure and bring in outside air from the front via a duct. Space is tight, it will be difficult. If that doesn't work, I don't know what the solution is.

I believe that in the latest Commodore the battery has been moved from the engine compartment to the back of the car for this very reason. Crammy, good choice on your battery location

For me and my Prado, more research and experimentation required.

Sorry for the long post.

Cheers

Frank

{Edit} PS. Because the RanOx can pump out significant current to a battery which may live in a hot environment, the battery should be protected. The $20 optional extra temp probe, in my opinion is not really an option, it is a must have.

[jl4049]

Falcons since the EL model I think, have got a ducted battery enclosure to help combat high battery temperatures, might be possible to fangle something up using a couple of cut up battery cradles from the wreckers, maybe taking air from the inner gaurd? ( would mean banging another hole their though, and probably would need a fan to get enough air through to have any affect).

[Grey Nomad]

Hi Frank (4xx4 Driver)

Here here! Love your comments. So you are the other guy with TWO RanOx units.
I was forewarned about putting my auxiliary battery under the bonnet so I paid a king's ransom for a sealed AGM battery that lives in the rear of my vehicle (like Crammy's).
When you think that our vehicle / caravan combination is worth between $100,000 and $150,000, why quibble over a dual RanOx installation? By the time that I purchased many metres of super heavy gauge wire, super duper fuses, an Anderson plug, 4 high current relays, 2 RanOx's and an American made marine grade AGM battery, I stopped counting at around $1,400.
Still, I can sleep happy at night!

Cheers - John

[4xx4 Driver]

Thanks for that, JL4049, I'll definitely look at that option. Not sure about the hole in the inner guard, though. I was thinking of some flexible ducting with an intake in the blank space beside the front fog light, then squeezing through the holes where the aircon plumbing goes beside the radiator.

Hi Grey Nomad. Foster the friendship with the person who forewarned you about locating your second battery - they know their stuff. Have spent a bit less on hardware, but am behind the eight-ball with my battery location. I don't have room for it in the back unless I pull apart and re-design my DIY shelf unit, which I'm reluctant to do.

I think I've figured a work-around. My van's battery pack is pretty large - 315 Amp-hours - so for a lot of the time I have spare capacity. Instead of trying to charge a hot battery, which is a no-no according to the research, I will "back-charge" the 105 Amp-hour Prado aux (and run the car fridge) in the cool of the night from the van when I need to. I can top up the van while driving (the hot battery issue is not present in the van), or by solar or while camped by inverter/mains/genny using a Ctek. Not ideal, but a work around.

Sounds like you have a good setup.

Cheers

[Golly]

When I used to be a courier (subbie) and had a certain japanese one tone van haha, I cooked my battery too many times, simply because the original placement of it.
Shoved in a corner and left to boil, was wondering why I was going through a battery a year easy. It would of exceeded 50'c easy in that engine bay, and obviously it was not charging to its capacity all the time just using the alternator. All the batteries bought were HD Diesel batteries. Ranox setup in the back is looking good for me me thinks for future reference.

[PradoGXL08]

Hi All,

I have read this thread, and find it very interesting, but still have questions.

I have a 2008 Prado GXL D4D Auto to which I plan to fit a Second Battery to run the Fridge and Aux Outlets (12V Light, Rattle Gun etc..).
I also have a 50 Amp Anderson Plug running to my recently purchased Tvan, which has 2 batteries fitted with a 50Amp Solar Panel mount on the roof of the tvan.

According to my SGII unit, I was getting between 13.0 & 13.2 volts when I was coming back from Toowoomba last week, after collecting my Tvan and I also had the A/C on.

Before I departed for Toowoomba an Auto Elect, checking my Output on my Anderson and I was getting 13.5 to 13.6V.

Firstly, Do I need to Fit a System like Piranha for my second Battery or do I just fit this RanOx System??
And secondly, do I need to fit a Ctek charger as well?

Please advise

Stuart

[leachy_9]

Stuart,
You do not need to fit any other isolator - just a Ranox.
If you wish to be able to charge your battery from a 240VAC supply (caravan park, generator etc) you can either get a battery charger (CTEK is a good option) or a 13.8V DC
power supply (available from Jay Car) and use it to power the Ranox. The battery charger option has the advantage of being portable and can be used to charge any battery but the DC power supply option is cheaper.
If the cost is not an issue I'd suggest a Ranox / CTEK set up is the best, most flexible system as it allows the most flexibility with some redundacy. Either can be used to charge the battery so if one should fail you can still charge the batteries using the other system (assuming 240VAC is available).

Leachy

[PradoGXL08]

Hi All,

Leachy,
So I only order 1 x Ranox to cover both Tvan and Prado??

What model ctek is best, and would I need 2 of them (1 x Car + 1 x Tvan)??

I may be looking at a Honda 10i Generator for those times 240V isn't available and I am base camping for several days.

Please advise

Stuart

[leachy_9]

Stuart,

What size/type of batteries are in the van and what battery type/size will you install as an Aux in the Prado? This will effect what you can and can't do.
What you install will depend greatly on the performance you expect out of the system, what load you have on the systems, how fast you wish to recharge and of course how much you are willing to pay.
Taking an educated guess at you batteries you have...
If it were my mine (I expect maximum performance and accept the associated cost) I would install one Ranox in the Prado with an AGM Aux battery mounted in the rear (not under bonnet due to the temperature rise) and other Ranox in the trailer.
Since you have the solar panel I'd suggest just one CTEK charger would meet your needs. Depending on the size of the batteries either a XS15000 or a XS25000.

The Honda EU10i is a great generator, quiet aqnd reilable.

This system would give to the best possible performance out of your batteries in terms of total charge, recharge rate and total battery life. But note these are all premium products and are priced as such(Approx):
Honda EU10i - $1250
2 x Ranox - $700
CTEK XS25000 - $500
AGM battery - $400
battery box / cable etc - $200
Plus installation costs. $$$ or DIY

There are cheaper options but all come at the expense of system performace and/or reliability. There are undoubtly people out there that will have differing opinions on what is the best setup normally based on there own financial situation and requirements. My suggestions are based on my technical background and personal needs/experience. The best solution is the one that best meets YOUR needs.
Leachy

[Crammy]

Leachy is spot on Stuart.

There's no magic bullet so to speak as to which system is the "best". There are a lot of variables from setup to setup and of course what you want out of your system.

My suggestion would be to Install the 2 x Ranox setups first and see how the system performs before lashing out with all the other goodies. The great thing about the Ranox is that it has the ability to transfer charge from one battery to another. What this means is that, if you were camped for a few days and you needed to top up your Tvan batteries, you can draw from the AUX battery in the Prado to top up the Tvan battery (Assuming aux battery wasn't being heavily relied apon). This is great especially if you've parked up the Tvan and you go off exploring etc, as the Ranox in the Prado will top the AUX battery while the engine is running and you're ready to top up the Tvan battery again when needed.

Depending on how long you'll be in one spot will dictate where you go with the system. As said before there are plenty of variables that need to be considered. The fact that the Ranox will charge a battery to 100% will give you a lot more discharge time than relying on the alternator to charge.

Just to give you an idea on my system... I can run my 60L Waeco up here in Cairns (which is approx 32 degrees everyday and this time of year about 26 degrees at night) for approximately 48hrs straight before the battery (90Ah AGM) falls to 50% state of charge, which is as low as you should go when dishcarging a lead acid battery.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Crammy

[Grey Nomad]

Hi Stuart

The previous two posts have summed it up nicely. I have a caravan with a RanOx in it and a second RanOx in the back of my vehicle charging a 92A/Hr AGM battery which is also mounted in the back of the vehicle. I have a 25A CTek in the caravan and a little 7.5A CTek for miscellaneous use. I also have a Honda eu10i for emergency charging. It looks like you are heading in the right direction. Ignore the cost.

Cheers = John

[Crammy]

Guys,

I have some updated info from the guys at Ranox.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Guys,

- here is some more "charging" information, particularly for Prado D4D owners, and those who wish to "service" them

- this is the same (as previous Email) Toyota Prado with D4D common rail diesel engine vehicle, BUT TOWING a 21 ft tandem axle Olympic caravan (2.5 tonne)

- we recorded battery voltage and temperature in a trip from The Basin to Warburton (out in ranges of the Yarra Valley)
+ warm day (about 28 ºC)
+ vehicle air-conditioning was on at times

- RanOx was fitted to caravan, so it was drawing 30 Amp to charge the 200 Ah battery bank (intentionally previously discharged about 25 Ah), plus about 15 Amp to run absorption fridge in van
+ thus "towing" load on Prado electrical system was about 45 Amp

FIRST plot is the cranking battery Voltage & Temperature against Time
+ note the fairly consistent 13.1 Volt, which is not much to charge a caravan (or auxiliary battery) UNLESS you use a "battery-booster" (such as RanOx)
+ drops below 12V8, probably when idling in traffic etc
+ maximum voltage was only 13.3 Volt (at 6 min.)
+ VERY hot battery temperature (probe was against battery, NOT bolted to post)
= ABOVE 50 ºC all the time after 12 min.
= 63 º after 23 min.

- again, rather ENLIGHTENING when you have some real data to examine !

So unless you use a battery-booster system, you are only going to have 13.1 Volt to charge those batteries (whether under bonnet, rear of vehicle, caravan etc: when towing/running absorption fridges)
- may even be worse in hot ambient conditions (eg > 40 ºC)


Thanks Ian & Glenys for your co-operation last weekend.


Regards
Alan Oxenbould
for RanOx Pty. Ltd.
ABN 28 131 212 952
http://www.ranox.com.au

[Crammy]

Guys,

Thanks for being RanOx customers.
- we know you are pleased with your unit
- however, we have recently carried out some "logged" charging tests to show what your unit ACTUALLY achieves
- we provide this information, so that you can "see for yourself" the benefits.


We have attached four PDFs to illustrate RanOx performance, as well as modern vehicle voltage/temperature.


Batt_Rec_Toyota_Prado_D4D_CRD_04-Mar-2009.pdf


Charge_with-without_RanOx_1_www.pdf


Charge_with-without_RanOx_2_www.pdf


We know this is fairly technical, but we hope you find it informative. We are continuing to build-up this supporting information.

We hope you don't find this intrusive, but we just wanted to share the very pleasing results.


Regards
Alan Ransley and Alan Oxenbould
for RanOx Pty. Ltd.
ABN 28 131 212 952
http://www.ranox.com.au

[Crammy]

Updated RanOx literature

RanOx brochure: http://www.mediafire.com/file/wuzjt0g0zxz/RanOx_Brochure_Rev_4H1i.pdf
RanOx manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/00j2z0iwvko/RanOx_Manual-Diagram_Rev_4H1j.pdf
RanOx simple wiring diagramhttp://www.mediafire.com/file/0bdlqcwv8ei/RanOx_Connection-Diagram_Simple1.pdf

Cheers,

Crammy

[D4D-GXL]

I have been reading this threat with lots of interest as I am looking at a dual battery setup. I have a D4D and was concerned about the low ECU controlled battery voltage, heat under the bonnet, and amongst other things, tearing of panels etc. So I aint going to install a battery in the bonnet void now since reading this thread. Certainly gave me some new options to look at.

Thanks Crammy and Alan for your input on the RanOx. You have certainly provided some great detail to allow an informed decision.
I have 6mm square +/- double insulated cable running from the battery, through a fuse (currently 10A). I have run the cable through the firewall and down the drivers side of the car through the cable channel, and have approx 3 metres of cable coiled up waiting for the final install.

I have only a couple of question that I would like some feedback on if possible.

1. I have the 40Ltr Engel in the back of the Prado and may on occassion run some other accessories at times, such as LED lights when setting up camp etc at night. I have a relatively low power consumption except for the fridge so can I ask what size of AGM battery I should be looking at.

2. What manufacturer of the AGM battery have others currently have and are you happy with it's performance.

[leachy_9]

Gordon,

An AGM battery in the 90 – 110 AH range will give you sufficient capacity for a couple of days camping without recharge, is well matched to the output capacity of the Ranox and will still fit in a standard battery box. AGM batteries are available in a very wide range of quality and price options. Two that I think are a good balance of price and performance are:

Absorbed power GT12-90C
http://www.absorbedpower.com/battery/pdf/GT12-90C.pdf

Fullriver DC105-12
http://www.fullriver.com/products/dclist.asp

Leachy

[D4D-GXL]

Thankyou Leachy, your a legend.

[Grey Nomad]

Hi all

Here is some further feedback on the double RanOx setup that I run in my caravan and vehicle.
To summarise, the caravan has a dedicated RanOx to charge its 120A/Hr battery and the vehicle has one mounted in the back to charge a 90A/Hr auxiliary battery which is also mounted in the back. This runs the Engels fridge.
I was tempted to set both Ranox units at the maximum charging capacity of 25 Amps but I figured that 2 x 25 Amps plus the 15 Amps for the caravan's absorption fridge plus a bit for the Engels plus a bit more for inefficiency was getting way over the 80 Amp mark. This is in addition to the current that the vehicle needs to draw to operate. I doubt that the D4D Prado's alternator can supply that current.
In the end, I set the car RanOx to 25 Amps and the caravan one to 15 Amps. Maybe I was still ambitious!
After a run from Brisbane to Caloundra (1 hr 30 mins) it was obvious that the vehicle's Ranox had ceased charging and the auxiliary battery voltage was below the cut-off level. Note that, in this case, the vehicle's auxiliary battery was quite low to start with.
As JSM used to say "Why is this so?"
I run both my RanOx units in Mode 1 where to activate, they sense a rise in the vehicle's main battery voltage. Was I pushing my alternator so hard so that the voltage was varying and confusing the RanOx units? The caravan one was functioning OK.
I have correctly wired my two RanOx units with independant thick cables and they join at the terminal post of the main vehicle battery so voltage drop on a common cable run is not possible.
I am coming to the conclusion that I should run both my RanOx units in Mode 2 where they don't sense battery voltage to initiate. To achieve this, all I need to do is supply the RanOx units via an ignition controlled relay (a big one!).
Do either of the two Alans or any other forum members have any comments on this?

Cheers - John

[Crammy]

Hi all

Here is some further feedback on the double RanOx setup that I run in my caravan and vehicle.
To summarise, the caravan has a dedicated RanOx to charge its 120A/Hr battery and the vehicle has one mounted in the back to charge a 90A/Hr auxiliary battery which is also mounted in the back. This runs the Engels fridge.
I was tempted to set both Ranox units at the maximum charging capacity of 25 Amps but I figured that 2 x 25 Amps plus the 15 Amps for the caravan's absorption fridge plus a bit for the Engels plus a bit more for inefficiency was getting way over the 80 Amp mark. This is in addition to the current that the vehicle needs to draw to operate. I doubt that the D4D Prado's alternator can supply that current.
In the end, I set the car RanOx to 25 Amps and the caravan one to 15 Amps. Maybe I was still ambitious!
After a run from Brisbane to Caloundra (1 hr 30 mins) it was obvious that the vehicle's Ranox had ceased charging and the auxiliary battery voltage was below the cut-off level. Note that, in this case, the vehicle's auxiliary battery was quite low to start with.
As JSM used to say "Why is this so?"
I run both my RanOx units in Mode 1 where to activate, they sense a rise in the vehicle's main battery voltage. Was I pushing my alternator so hard so that the voltage was varying and confusing the RanOx units? The caravan one was functioning OK.
I have correctly wired my two RanOx units with independant thick cables and they join at the terminal post of the main vehicle battery so voltage drop on a common cable run is not possible.
I am coming to the conclusion that I should run both my RanOx units in Mode 2 where they don't sense battery voltage to initiate. To achieve this, all I need to do is supply the RanOx units via an ignition controlled relay (a big one!).
Do either of the two Alans or any other forum members have any comments on this?

Cheers - John

Hi John,

What size cables have you run to the Ranox in the car?

Seeing as the Ranox in the car was the one to stop and was charging at full rated current, I'm guessing that there has been too much voltage drop to the unit. As you say, you're putting a lot of stress on the charging system which will be dragging the voltage down at the battery, which as we know in the D4D, it's pretty low to start with. Have you tried backing it off? Have you been able to do any measurements in regards to voltages at the various points in your system when the 2 Ranox units are running? This will most likely diagnose the problem.

Option 1-4 is the sensing option, whereas option 0 is triggered. Going option 1 may work better, but may have other effects on the prados charging system, as it sounds like it's already struggling.

It sounds like you may need to prioritise the charging with the RanOx. Maybe this is something you can work with Alan to improve your system. If you're not using the load disconnect relay, they may be able to re-write the software to trigger the relay when it is in float mode or drops below 10A for instance, then this will trigger the second Ranox in the van (using option 1) to start charging?

It's worth a shot.. Definitely something for the guru's at Ranox could answer.

Cheers,

Crammy.

[AlanR]

John,
If your units aren't charging, please note (and/or take photo) what the LCD and LEDs are indicating. The diagnostics are comprehensive and should give an indication of what is happening.
Our recent testing of a Prado D4D towing a 21 ft caravan with its RanOx drawing 30 Amp are posted on this thread.
You will note that the D4D alternator struggles to keep up with the about 45 Amp towing load (fridge plus RanOx). This was on moderate day, without large air-conditioning loads.
We do have other customers (eg. 4xx4) who succesfully have a RanOx in Prado, with another RanOx in van. Frank's units both work well, but he does use option_0, with external solenoids to activate the "feeds".
Your RanOx may have difficulty deciding whether the engine is "running", if the alternator output is erratic. We note when "engine" voltage rises above 13V20 and stays above 12V85. to decide "running" status, in Option_1 (or 2,3,4).
Please let us know (directly by Email is fine) what the LCD indicates.
Another clue is the behaviour of the Prado RanOx, without the caravan. Do you have any difficulty without the additional van load ?
Please talk/Email us before making changes to your system, as I am sure we can get both your RanOx units making the most of the D4D alternator output.
Alan Oxenbould, for RanOx P/L.