My engine chipping experience so far

[MDS69 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDS69]

Our Kakadu goes great with the Steinbauer,then again so does the Hilux and 200! Glad your enjoying yours ken

I can vouch for your Hilux as I had it for a day.

[mudguts_ Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close mudguts_]

Does anybody know the price differance between the Steinbauer and the Chip It?

[barryswanson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close barryswanson]

Justin from Chip-It, can you explain to me what the harsh loud "click" type sound my engine makes when I start it sometimes? It only does it when the chip is running on accessory power. So basically once the engine has started and power is applied to the chip there is a loud noise from my engine. It doesn't sound to healthy.

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

Justin from Chip-It, can you explain to me what the harsh loud "click" type sound my engine makes when I start it sometimes? It only does it when the chip is running on accessory power. So basically once the engine has started and power is applied to the chip there is a loud noise from my engine. It doesn't sound to healthy.

Hi Barry. Rob here. The click could be the the chip engaging. If you are close we have check it out.

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

I'm not sure what paramaters the Chip-it unit changes but units that increase the fuel rail pressure have been known to cause fault codes in D4D engines across the different vehicle platforms (Hilux, prado, Hiace). This was a major factor in my decision to use a Stienbauer unit as I was able to verify that it does not alter fuel rail pressure.

Leachy

Its not the rail pressure that is the problem. It is the ECU receiveing a signal is is not happy with.

SB are honest in one out of two questions.

I will write up about this in another post

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

So will this fix the problem of the check engine light coming on in the middle of intersections or just the failure to start problem? There isn't any ACC power supply under the bonnet as it is supplied from ECU B which is inside the cabin. I don't want to have to pull apart my centre console again if I don't have to. Will IGN power do the trick?

Schiff I tried calling you today .. the call went to voice mail. Call me back please so we can chat about the issue.

Cheers

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

A question for you Robert, why do some people claim that increase the fuel line pressure is bad and other kit manufactures (aka Steinbauer) go about power increase through methods apart from increasing fuel line pressure, however places like DP & Chip-it, etc swear by this method. Im sure there are a lot of people on here that would be very interested in hearing some industry feedback on the good and bad of the different methods of power increases.

Good question...

SB are honest in one out of two questions.

1) they correctly point out that they get UP TO 20% increase in power from their chips. The reason they only get UP TO 20% is because there is only a certain amount of extra fuel the injector can be told to inject without extra pressure from the rail. There are 2 ways ... 1) is to open the injector earlier ... 2) keep it open longer. The 1st is much harder to do as the signal to the injector needs to be interpreted (assumed) before it gets to the injector and ... in essence .. made to get to the injector earlier than the factory signal so that the injector opens earlier. This is technically very very difficult. The reason it is hard is that when the signal is trying to be sent earlier the vehicle's driver (you) may ACTAULLY be reducing throttle and therefore DOES NOT WANT more power. The only way to do this sucessfully is to intercept the crank angle sensor C.A.S. and fib a few degrees. SB DO NOT intercept the C.A.S. Opening up the injector earlier is like advancing the timing of a petrol engine and that usually creates more power ... more EFFICIENTLY.

The 2nd method is to extend the opening duration ... this is technically much easier. BUT, the more you keep the injector open after the factory ECU wants it closed means that the piston is ending the time it can use the extra fuel. Better said, the combustion "WINDOW" is closing. So when you try to get MORE power from a injector interceptor chip (like SB) you end up at the very rich end of the combustion range and blowing black smoke because the time to burn the fuel is too far retarted.

When you use fuel pressure to increase fuel delivery the factory ECU is totally in control of where/when the injection tining occurs. The mean average of fuel delivery window is maintained except more fuel is being admitted ... and being admitted with more gusto thereby INCREASING the atomisation of the fuel (this is another good point). To further through weight onto the injector / CR power enhancing technique. Toyota's racing arm, TRD, make a CR tune box!!! It is available from TRD Dealers in the UK as a Dealer option for circa $3000.00. Now if Toyota can build any type of tuning system they like (ie no funding shortfalls) and they choose to build a common rail piggyback system I tend to gain comfort from that.

Back to our power enhancing: To achieve the same power as the injector interceptor style chip our Common Rail (CR) chip will obtain a MUCH lower Air Fuel Ratio. This means better efficiency.

The following graph shows that the SB unit is acheiving the given power with an A/R ratio of 14.5:1 whereby the Chip It module, with Fuel AND AIR modification is acheing it with an AFR of 19:1.

This means we acheive the same power with LESS fuel

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b4...SIVsInjPSI.jpg

Of course, now we have obtained the same power with less fuel we can continue to add fuel (AND AIR) to get much more power.

The following graph shows this:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b4...pitcompare.jpg

So where are SB telling a porky pie?

Well, customers rings us up all the time and tell us that they just got off the phone to SB and SB said that common rail chips are bad because they make the pump work harder and therefore will make the pump fail earlier.

This is not true. Car manufacturers are using the Common Rail fuel system becuase it is simply a fantastic fuel delivery system. It will be around for many years to come. I will try to explain it a little here.

Firstly, the CR fuel pump is GEAR DRIVEN from the engine. That means that we cannot make it spin faster. It creates maximum pressure from just off idle and is delivering excess pressure right from the get go. The factory ECU commands valves in pump to open or close as needed. I will speak on the twin valve set up from this point on.

The factory ECU keeps the first vale open to supply a base head of pressure to the CR. This allows the engine to run. When throttle is applied the secondary valve (think of it as a spill valve as different manufacterers call it differently) is commanded to redirect the extra pressure to the CR instead of dumping it back to the tank. The more throttle, the more pressure is directed to the rail.

What CR piggy back systems do is have the factory ECU command this spill valve to redirect the extra pressure to the CR earlier. The valve no longer is dumping this excess pressure to the tank back keeping the CR loaded with an adundance of pressure so that the injectors now have a greater "head of steam". The injector, now with more pressure behind it, opens AT THE FACTORY COMMANDED TIME, and fires in a great amount of fuel. It stops injecting at the right time too.

Now comes the fun happens. When the injetor has more pressure behind it and the "start" and "finishing" times are maintained the mean average time will also be maintained. In other words, the peak flow point, say at 50% of the open duration window, is still the same.

However the peak flow AT THAT POINT is increased. So when the combustion process burns the fuel in the window allowed (by time and motion) this is maintained by CR tune boxes but the amount of fuel being delivered in this time is now greater. It is this greater amount of fuel ... injected at the correct time ... that generates the power with better air fuel ratios.

No increasing of pump speed or more strain on the pump etc. Just giving the injectors more pressure to work with.

The difference between the Chip It Power module and other CR tuning modules (ie DP, Tunit, Rapid, Roo ... who incidently import the same Kurbel chip out of Germany and just put their own sticker on the top of the box to call it their own) is that we do not change JUST the fuel. (ie dump more fuel in) but we add extra air in as well. By adding extra air we maintain the AFRs and keep the EGT's lower.

Secondly we have a EGT monitor that checks the exhaust temps and if the temps get too high (as adding extra fuel in a diesel always creates) the module AUTOMATICALLY de tunes the chip. It is there as a safety feature for your engine. Most of the time it will not be used ... it WILL be used when your engine needs it to be used. BTW, SB chip has a feature that is pretty good too. However they are not ACTIVELY monitoring EGTs. Their system works like this. When you are at full throttle for 10 seconds the chip starts to detune at 1% every second. . Problem here is that if the temps are not too hot and you DO want/need the extra power ... too bad ... the SB chip is going to start pulling back power. On the other hand, if you are at 98% throttle and the temps ARE getting too hot, the SB chip will not do anything to correct this. By actively monitoring the EGTs, we pull back power ONLY when its needed. And this is whether you are at 100% throttle or any other throttle position!! Obviously this is a much better approach. However, credit to SB that they do acknowledge that EGTs are an issue and try to do something about it. its better than nothing.

Getting to the CR tuning boxes that use just a variable resistor (Kurbel chip type) this is a very poor method of tuning. Yes it works ... however so does adding a small resistor to the signal from the CR sensor. In essence this is what a variable resister tune box is doing ... just swapping out one resistor for another. it is old scholl and not great for tuning sophisticated common rail engines. When we send a tune to the Chip It module we are programming our ECU to add (or sometimes subtract) fuel WHERE IT'S NEEDED. For example, the Toyota D4D can take a heap of fuel in the mid range but we need to tone it back towards to higher end of the fuel map. By tuning each individual load point of the fuel map we can tune the engine precisely. When you change the dial on the front or change the dip switches of a tuning system, let's say from setting 5 to 6, you effectively increase the % of the whole fuel map by (in the case of kurbal) 1.5%. Sure 1.5% may be good up the top but 1.5% in the meaty area in the middle of the map is bugger all. And if you try to change the mid rangeby say 10% that will be WAY TOO MUCH for the top and all you get is black smoke on heavy acceleration.

continued next post:

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

Also, people are told by other companies that the chip changes the timing of injection ... this is bollocks and more BSing to try to baffle customers. Kurbel chips (that is all 4 chips as mentioned) do NOT change timing. The factory ECU is totally responible for that. To say the chips change timing is not completely correct ... what happens is that the factory ECU can use more pressure to better advantage. The common rail fuel system can/will increase injection timing if it has more pressure. (This is seen in injector graphs where timing is monitored / recorded. I think we may have one on our site.)

Regarding the Prado, it has THE MOST fussiest factory ECU on the planet. It wants to hear a particular "noise". We have had to change the firware on the chip half a dozen times to "keep up" with the changing spec of the Toyota ECU. In 8 out of 10 cars we do there is zero problem and customers plug it in and drive away as happy as Larry. In some vehicles, we have had to get the ECU back and try a different firmware. In some very rare times we just were not able to acertain what the issue was and have refunded the customer's funds (as we always promise to do if we cannot get it right). But as I said, this is a very low percentage. We usually are able to sort of the issues and since the Chip is designed and built by us we are able to provide supprt on the spot usually. On another positive note, at the end of this month, we will have another electrical engineer start with us and he will give the board another look over with the view of licking the dual throttle control Toyoya D4D signal issue.

If anyone in Perth wants a good deal on a chip and we can use their Prado for a day's testing we will provide a Chip and all fitting plus full dyno custom tune will be provided free. We will need the vehicle for a day I would think.

If you are able to help and live in Perth contact [email protected] and advise of your interest.

I hope this helps.

Sorry if this is hard to read. I'm sure there is a better way to write this but I am pressed a little for time ... again ... sorry for this. If questions or explainations are sort, please ask and I will clarify.

Much appreciated ... and sorry for the long L O N G post.


Cheers

[mudguts_ Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close mudguts_]

You blokes are fantastic never have I seen such support over a forum, and because of it I have installed one of your chips to my 150 and can't believe the drivability now is sooooo much better and that's still on the basic tune.

Also great to know it's from our own country. Well done Chip It and thank you.

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

I can vouch for your Hilux as I had it for a day.

Yes you did

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Damn

If I was in WA Justin could have had my rig for the day. How about flying the boys to SA and they can have mine for 3 days..

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

You blokes are fantastic never have I seen such support over a forum, and because of it I have installed one of your chips to my 150 and can't believe the drivability now is sooooo much better and that's still on the basic tune.

Also great to know it's from our own country. Well done Chip It and thank you.

A BIG THANKS MUDGUTS.

Its a real treat for all of us to have people take time to give us a plug on a public forum.

Since we desperately try to keep prices low and don't have $400.00 tacked on, we don't have the advertising budget that many of the others have so getting people to write and say thanks really helps.

Its really appreciated MGs.

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

Damn

If I was in WA Justin could have had my rig for the day. How about flying the boys to SA and they can have mine for 3 days..

HAHA. Funny

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

On the weekend I ran a cable through the firewall and connected the chip to acc power. I too now get the click sound.
Robert I haven't been able to call you as I have been busy the last couple of days. Will try on Wednesday.

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

HAHA. Funny

Kind of serious actually. Looks like I'm paying full price. Someone remind me to keep my future praise of the chip it to a half hearted effort. Something along the lines of grumble, bloody good chip, grumble, bloody goes well, grumble, grumble, had to sell my first born but worth it, grumble.....