Lackluster performance perception of the new 2.8 over the 3.0 diesel

[digys Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close digys]

Interesting reading about the 1GDFTV.

http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/15-...engine_eng.htm

I've read a lot of stories about people moving from a 3.0 to a 2.8 saying that there is no improvement in power even though it has a 40nm advantage in torque. Some even say its a little more gutless than the 3.0. A friend of mine says that his 3.0 towed the camper a lot better than his new 2.8.

I can't say as I've never owned a 3.0 and i find my 2.8 VX quite adequate.

I suspected that the lackluster preception of performance despite the 40nm advantage over the 3.0 has to do with the more sophistciated power sapping pollution control on the 1GDFTV.

This first paragraph in the article confirms this.


"Previous diesel series after fifteen years of production has become obsolete for a number of parameters - economy, ecology, output, noise... and was involved in the infamous story of cracking pistons. GD engines are better in all respects, however, the expected improvement in dynamic performance did not happen - nominal torque up "disappeared" somewhere in eco-systems and eco-settings. The most noticeable advantage of new diesel - reducing the vibrations and noise"

What do ou guys think?

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Interesting reading about the 1GDFTV.

http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/15-...engine_eng.htm

I've read a lot of stories about people moving from a 3.0 to a 2.8 saying that there is no improvement in power even though it has a 40nm advantage in torque. Some even say its a little more gutless than the 3.0. A friend of mine says that his 3.0 towed the camper a lot better than his new 2.8.

I can't say as I've never owned a 3.0 and i find my 2.8 VX quite adequate.

I suspected that the lackluster preception of performance despite the 40nm advantage over the 3.0 has to do with the more sophistciated power sapping pollution control on the 1GDFTV.

This first paragraph in the article confirms this.


"Previous diesel series after fifteen years of production has become obsolete for a number of parameters - economy, ecology, output, noise... and was involved in the infamous story of cracking pistons. GD engines are better in all respects, however, the expected improvement in dynamic performance did not happen - nominal torque up "disappeared" somewhere in eco-systems and eco-settings. The most noticeable advantage of new diesel - reducing the vibrations and noise"

What do ou guys think?

Someone needs to run a 3l and 2.8l on the dyno and see what it produces. This will rule out all environmental factors and will be measured at the wheels which is where the companies should base their numbers on.

I'll see if I can find some plots from some of the tuning companies for both of the engines.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Ok so I found some info from unichip website

The 3l has the following
100 kw at the wheels
300nm at the wheels

and 2.8 has,

96kw at the wheels
390nm at the wheels

Interesting info the older 1KD has more power than the 1GD but less torque by nearly 100Nm. These are comparisons of the Hilux because I cant find the newer 1GD dyno results for the Prado.
Whats very interesting is that the Hilux produces more torque and power at the wheels than the equivalent Prado version. See attached




Regards
Doug

[digys Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close digys]

Thanks Cuda,

Can definitely see the power difference there, especially the torque numbers.
Next is to line the 3.0 and 2.8 side by side both with a 2 tonne van and see who wins

Wonder if the balance shafts on the prado version of the 2.8 has any impact of power.

I agree with you regarding the auto box, has a mind of its own at times. Im due for my 20k service in a few days and will ask for the tranny firmware update.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Thanks Cuda,

Can definitely see the power difference there, especially the torque numbers.
Next is to line the 3.0 and 2.8 side by side both with a 2 tonne van and see who wins

Wonder if the balance shafts on the prado version of the 2.8 has any impact of power.

I agree with you regarding the auto box, has a mind of its own at times. Im due for my 20k service in a few days and will ask for the tranny firmware update.

Sorry after you read the post I modified it as I had found new information. The auto is in my opinion of sub standard level.

Thanks
Doug

[Phs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phs]

Ok so I found some info from unichip website

The 3l has the following
100 kw at the wheels
300nm at the wheels

and 2.8 has,

96kw at the wheels
390nm at the wheels

Interesting info the older 1KD has more power than the 1GD but less torque by nearly 100Nm. These are comparisons of the Hilux because I cant find the newer 1GD dyno results for the Prado.
Whats very interesting is that the Hilux produces more torque and power at the wheels than the equivalent Prado version. See attached




Regards
Doug

Hi Doug,

I do believe the Prado Dyno figures will differ to the Hilux figures
Also all individual motors will vary up to a lot more than 4kws

Coming from a high power TDV8 79 series making 170kws on the dyno, I am happy with out 2016 Kakadu, it pulls up any hill at 100km/h and still gains speed, the auto seems to work very well, especially compared to our Ford Everest which is forever rolling over gears, I have read people's issue with the Prado auto but we must have had the update as it works fine

This may change when we upsize tyres but for now it's power is fine
The fuel economy is all over the place. Some times driving it hard returns better economy

Heading upto NSW with no economy driving in mind using all the overtaking lanes ect. we returned 8.9lts per 100 on the return trip 10.6lts

Trying my best to watch economy up to cape Otway returned 10.8lts

Just got back from the High county including 4wding about 8 hours of low range work it returned 11.2lts

Probably all to do with these troublesome DPFS

[Bobcrusader Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bobcrusader]

Some of us have come from the lighter 120 series with the 3L into the heavier 150 with the 2.8L. I wouldn't risk any dodgy overtaking in either, and they both got away from the lights just fine. I find the 2.8 is maybe a touch quicker, but when cruising at 103 in 6th gear at 1600rpm, its a very nice and quiet place to be.

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Having gone from a V6 120 VX to a 2.8 GX150 I find it is fine. There is plenty of get up and go but it comes in at about 2500rpm. The only real highway work I have done I had 1000kg + of camper on the back. It tows this much better than the 120 V6 ,holding gears better on long hills with the lower rpm torque. On a few limited bits of freeway without the camper at 100 kph, a boot in the guts gets it up an boogying but at , I suspect, a slightly slower rate than the V6. I am yet to go round a B double to check out this top end. On the highway or anywhere above 60-70kph it is as quiet as the V6. As to economy, it is getting 11.8-12.00 l/100 km around Sydney's crazy traffic. The V6 got 16-17 for the same. The auto appears to be as good as the 5 speed in the 120.

[hergy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hergy]

Safari Snorkel made a huge difference to my Kakadu

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Safari Snorkel made a huge difference to my Kakadu

Huge? Can you define a little? Was considering getting a snorkel soon.

Thanks
Doug

[Phs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phs]

I fitted my safari snorkel a few weeks ago, Cant say it made any noticeable difference to our Kakadu's performance.

Was hoping for some fuel economy benefits with the snorkel but it's up and down.

[Symo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Symo]

I have driven both and made the comment a year ago that they are both the same for outright performance. The power indicates both can do the same work over the same period of time, but the small increase in torque is offset by a much narrower torque band compared to the 3L (1kd goes from 1500 to 3000 roughly and is flat).

Also given both motors are severely underpowered as the Prado is not a performance car and is quite heavy a 10% torque increase over a 1000rpm patch will not be noticed by anyone. It's akin to feeling a difference when a 80kg passenger hops in.

If your are in for towing and working the car the torque is good but better delivered in the 3L and if you are for highspeed overtaking then the V6 is the pick.

The 3L definitely pulls harder off idle.

Regardless when I want to feel power I take the 6.2L V8 to the shops, now that's mind warping acceleration.


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[Phs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phs]

Some of us have come from the lighter 120 series with the 3L into the heavier 150 with the 2.8L. I wouldn't risk any dodgy overtaking in either, and they both got away from the lights just fine. I find the 2.8 is maybe a touch quicker, but when cruising at 103 in 6th gear at 1600rpm, its a very nice and quiet place to be.

Definetly Quite and Smooth on the FWY, I find it can be touch rough on idle at 600rpm but ok when the AC is on.
We have done plenty of overtaking and really find it quite Sufficient, Had a New Dmax get up set and put there foot down at the overtaking lane our Prado still cruised on past

In comparison to probably the fastest motor in its class ( Everests 3.2lt ) it matchs up well,
Around town the Everest is very zippy just off idle but can also be annoying at the same time very sensitive and the delivery from the auto is woeful, flat out there close but the Prado uses its range upto redline the Everest will change gear at 3500 rpm

Can't say the std 70 series V8 is anything to wright home about, but very easily makes good power with a few mods. The 200 series TTD is great but they will never put that in the Prado it's a shame as it would really suit it well

[digys Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close digys]

Nice observation phs. How many ks have you done?. I'm about to book mine in for her 20k service. I did find it loosen up after 10k.
Like i said for me it has adequate power, especially for a 2.4t vehicle. I gave it a good run on the way from home to syd from hunter valley via putty road. It made pretty good work of those winding accents with a fully laiden car. OffRoad is where it's in its element though😊

Definetly Quite and Smooth on the FWY, I find it can be touch rough on idle at 600rpm but ok when the AC is on.
We have done plenty of overtaking and really find it quite Sufficient, Had a New Dmax get up set and put there foot down at the overtaking lane our Prado still cruised on past

In comparison to probably the fastest motor in its class ( Everests 3.2lt ) it matchs up well,
Around town the Everest is very zippy just off idle but can also be annoying at the same time very sensitive and the delivery from the auto is woeful, flat out there close but the Prado uses its range upto redline the Everest will change gear at 3500 rpm

Can't say the std 70 series V8 is anything to wright home about, but very easily makes good power with a few mods. The 200 series TTD is great but they will never put that in the Prado it's a shame as it would really suit it well

[Phs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phs]

Most definetly, 4wding is the main reason we got it, wanted a solid long term 4wd ( that's not a truck )
It's clicked over 10k a few days ago