For God's Sake, Get Your Balls Checked!!

[bimboita Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close bimboita]

Thanks for the replies guys.
The rig has a 40mm lift of Dobinson all round. It's a great setup that has lasted over 130,000 km in five years. We have towed our 2.3t van out to the centre and two trips to the snowies and some extreme mud runs up in Mackay, QLD. The Cooper tyre that was wrecked had 128,000 km on it too.
We have had a good run out of this rig but it's due for some bushes all round and sort the drivers side ball joints now.
Radix, just under $5,500 worth of repairs including a new side step.

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

It's a common occurrence with the vehicles of this age. Interesting coincidence - every single Aussie one I've seen was at low speed on the bitumen, without major accident. Only particularly bad one I can recall seeing was on a 3rd gen 4runner in the states, it was wrecked from rolling.

Anyway, I suggest staying with genuine for these. Mine ran for 14 years on the originals till they finally were worn enough to be replaced. Installed 555s and 1 year later I'm replacing them again. Cheap aftermarket for critical things like this is just not worth the hassle or risk. Of course, price comes into it as well. A pair of 555s for $120, or genuine from your local Toyota for $700. I wasn't happy with either option, so got a supply of genuine and am selling them for half that price

carco, if you don't like the droop of 2" lifts you'd have a bit of a shock over mine. Only 2.3" lift at front but modified struts which if not strapped, will allow CV's to entirely bind up and steering wasn't far off as well. I have an aftermarket UCA though, with larger balljoint, which helps a lot.

"A common occurrence with vehicles of this age"... I'm not so sure its a "common" (ie prevalent) failure for cars of that age, its certainly not unknown or unheard of, but "common"? ....If it is common I guess it bolsters the argument for regular compulsory "roadworthy" (Safety) inspections once a car reaches a certain age, say, an annual safety inspections check for vehicles over 10 years of age ...dare I say it...

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

"A common occurrence with vehicles of this age"... I'm not so sure its a "common" (ie prevalent) failure for cars of that age, its certainly not unknown or unheard of, but "common"? ....If it is common I guess it bolsters the argument for regular compulsory "roadworthy" (Safety) inspections once a car reaches a certain age, say, an annual safety inspections check for vehicles over 10 years of age ...dare I say it...

You've misquoted me, but regardless I was referring to the 90 series Prado.

Interestingly though, as I wrote that post, I had similar thoughts regarding inspections. It's a very regular failure and they should be identified during inspections. Down here in NSW we have annual inspections on vehicles, older than 5 years I think it is. If done properly that will include joints. I've even seen they enforce replacement of seat belts after a certain age, regardless of condition.

The first part of this vid shows a check for worn joint. Passing this test is not confirmation of a good joint however, as in some cases the joint may not be worn but the top of the housing may be damaged/weakened from regular and excessive droop.

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

I too was thinking about the inspection system having just bought my old rocket.
She came from NSW with a pink slip??? Not sure of your paperwork but it was some sort of annual inspection certificate.
Rego'd her here in QLD with an RWC showing one out of 4-blocked squirter nozzles on the windscreen washers and an obvious leaking CV boot, worn rear upper track rod bushes.
Having done some research, I decided to replace everything so she had a known starting point.
One lower ball joint was stuffed as was an upper on the opposite side, 2 out of 4 buggered lower control arm bushes and one stuffed rack end.
So much for safety inspections.
I think they're too lazy too look hard at anything with a bash plate.

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Unfortunately there's many factors which will effect the quality of an annual safety check...

Some might be lazy and miss things - which makes for a very happy customer (until something like this goes wrong).

Some shops destroy trust in the industry by making false claims of fault to bring in easy sales - a popular one is tyres. The customer is almost held ransom here, either pay for those repairs or go to another shop, where you'll need to pay a second rego inspection fee, plus potentially face the same repairs, because all faults found are recorded/shared electronically.

Then there's the shops being thorough who get harassed by unhappy customers facing big bills. Those shops may have difficulty maintaining a flow of return customers.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

"A common occurrence with vehicles of this age"... I'm not so sure its a "common" (ie prevalent) failure for cars of that age, its certainly not unknown or unheard of, but "common"? ....If it is common I guess it bolsters the argument for regular compulsory "roadworthy" (Safety) inspections once a car reaches a certain age, say, an annual safety inspections check for vehicles over 10 years of age ...dare I say it...

Hey brogers,

If you google "lower ball joint failure toyota" and look at the images, there's a lot of American 4Runners and Tacomas with the same kind of failure.....with a similar design to our 90/95 series lower arm. Much bigger market, so perhaps failures are easier to see via big forums, but all share the common point of failure.

I've seen ball joints with mm's worth of corrosion and pitting on them, both after market and OEM.

If you run a 4wd with IFS, I would say annual inspections are a must by the owner, no matter what its age!

Best

Mark

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

The 90 series is still a very popular 4X, yet the front end alignment shop I used had no experience with the lower ball joint issue.
The other problem when checking for wear is 4x's are fairly heavily made, so you need big gear/levers etc to check for any movement in joints.
As the typical fail point is usually the crush section at the top of the joint (not the ball or the base component) the suspension may need jacking to observe droop conditions.
With the OP's repair bill $5500 and the book value of a 90 series round the $10k mark, I wonder when insurance companies will simply write them off.

[Radix Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Radix]

yet the front end alignment shop I used had no experience with the lower ball joint issue.

I just checked the Product Recall page that was linked earlier. Apparently for the VZJ95 series it's only serial numbers 00086146-00103446.

http://www.productsafety.gov.au/reca...-cruiser-prado
Model Code RZJ95 VDS: BM99J# VIS: 00047327-00060247
Model Code VZJ95, VDS:BN95J# & BN99J# VIS: 00086146-00103446
Model Code KZJ 95 VDS BY99J# VIS: 00165768-00173429

Unless I have misunderstood, mine is not in that range. Checking maintenance records mine was recalled for a Rear axle shaft campaign, but not for the front lower ball joint.

This may be why it is not that common.

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

lol you guys... the "issue" (whether it be a defect or a simple matter of wear and tear) exists many models including the same generation 4runners, Tacomas and Tundras (which use the same design). Consider it uncommon at your own peril.

Carco if you check that video, I illustrated a worn joint with a screwdriver - not heavy equipment at all. I would agree on that statement in regards to the LCA bushings though - as they're very difficult to confirm as worn.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=t...H0ARYQ_AUIBigB

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

Yes Glen and good work showing the video. I'm always in too much of a hurry or too dirty to bother.
With the wheel on and the car sitting normally, the forces aren't quite so easy to demonstrate, ball will be under tension loading the crush section.
But a competent mechanic will know where to lever.
Does that vehicle have aftermarket goodies??? Disc looks slotted, sway bar link is tougher than mine, strap on the LCA?

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Yes Glen and good work showing the video. I'm always in too much of a hurry or too dirty to bother.
With the wheel on and the car sitting normally, the forces aren't quite so easy to demonstrate, ball will be under tension loading the crush section.
But a competent mechanic will know where to lever.
Does that vehicle have aftermarket goodies??? Disc looks slotted, sway bar link is tougher than mine, strap on the LCA?

Totally agree re harder to test with the vehicle on the ground. Possible, but worth jacking up and removing tyre in order to make for a clearer test.

Yes it has quite a few goodies! Moving to slotted rotors was one part of a brake overhaul, after fitting 33's and experiencing reduced braking power. Sway bar links are quick disconnects, made from Chromoly, Alloys and Stainless - designed/made by myself and sell them online (along with a few other goodies). Strap is a limiting strap.. strut was modified for extra droop, but we went a little too far. Without the straps the droop goes far enough to bind up the CV's and put serious angles on the tie rod joints. I still gained travel with the arrangement so didn't want to step back to standard 2" struts. Will eventually redesign and remove the straps at a later date.

[robe0455 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close robe0455]

I've researched this a bit too. It's surprising how many photos look just like mine. Even in left hand drive vehicles, it's still the left lower ball joint that let's go.
Just wanted it out there for any unsuspecting drivers of what can happen.
The only indication was the steering got a bit heavy that morning then it all let go on my way to work in the afternoon.

Just found this trolling through a page for a wreckers. Looks like the same issue but on the drivers side..

http://clients.actual-australia.com/...mission=&sort=

[bigjimg Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bigjimg]

Getting a suspension kit fitted, booked in on Wednesday, asked for the ball joints to be checked and rocker covers to be checked.
Guess what left side ball joint on its way out and rocker covers are both leaking.
Added $1300 to the job which I thought was reasonable. all genuine parts used.

Joining up to Prado Point has paid dividends.

Thanks
Jim.

[Hogey66 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hogey66]

[QUOTE=bigjimg;557923

Joining up to Prado Point has paid dividends.

Thanks
Jim.[/QUOTE]

It's the most important thing for any Prado owner or future purchaser to do. Have learnt lots and saved considerably from the info available here.

[Brett1979 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Brett1979]

Hi every one.

I found out the hard way, what the inside of a ball joint looks like.

This happened to me recently and I am worried that it could happen to someone else if they don't get their ball joints checked.
Luckily it happened at low speed. I had control over steering and braking all the way to stopping in a turning lane that is almost never used.
I slid for about 30 meters then the rear driver's side wheel locked up as I was braking to a stop. That wheel didn't have much weight on it and you can see the white skid mark line behind it in the first photo.
At highway speed it would have been a bit more of an adventure trying to stop.

I found this very interesting and important for people to learn a bit more about. Further to this, and to educate others of getting things checked out, I dare say most of the time there would be close to or more than 12 months warning prior to this catastrophic separation of the ball joint... Not that many people would've known what the warning signs were leading up exactly (prob just worn bushes maybe). The very early signs would've been a clunk in the front end when initially reversing or turning the wheel when reversing, such as reversing out of a car park and turning the wheel in the process. This noise would be the worn and loose ball joint moving and popping in and out of the joint. There would've most likely been a binding, creeking noise in the front end going on for a while when driving slowly over speed bumps in shopping centre car parks for example which would be the tie rod either wearing as well or over compensating for the loose ball joint.

Months afterwards you'd begin get a bit of wheel movement from side to side while driving (in the affected wheel) mainly noticed at highway speeds in the earlier stages of this when rounding bends. As time goes on you'd know you definitely need a wheel alignment badly at the very least as the car would handle like crap and feel a bit deadly when rounding bends at highway speeds in the wet. When doing tight cornering you'd get wheel screeching because of the movement in the ball joint causing bad toe out of the alignment. When you turn the wheels the forces basically want to rip the ball out of the joint. So it's popping in and out. At this stage, with the affected side of the car jacked up, you'd be able to manually wriggle the wheel by hand easily, and a lot. There'd be so much left to right free play movement in there. As you wriggle that passenger side wheel you'd hear the ball joint popping in and out each time you wriggle it back and forth. This is very bad and requires prompt attention.

As it gets worse you'd get occasional wheel screeching in the affected wheel when accelerating off the lights in a straight line just purely due to the amount of movement in the joint and the physics of the drive axle wanting to naturally turn over on itself as you accelerate. By this stage I'd guarantee your tie rod would be shagged too from the over compensating it's been doing the whole time.

The movement in the ball joint would just get shockingly worse and worse to the point when the steering most of the time is shocking, keeping the car in a straight line on the highway would require constant corrections to keep it from wandering all over the lane you're in. The light wheel screeching when turning the wheel in tight spaces would happen almost every time. The clunking in reverse and when driving over speed bumps would be an all too familiar sound. There would been sufficient and ongoing warning that something was not right and needed to be seen to. A ball joint won't just be problem free one day to completely failing the next with no long term constant ongoing reminders that it's stuffed. They're too strong and well built for that. These are all signs to be aware of and to keep in mind. Don't let it go on and on and on to the point of failure. The outcome is easily preventable.

If you think of doing a bit of a diy on replacing tie rods and racks ends for the first time and you're limited on what tools you own, then there will be a bit of an innitial outlay on sourcing tools that you may need to do the job depending on how frozen the tie rod through bolt is and these can be difficult to remove at times. But Im sure a mechanic can replace these for you at a reasonable price.

To give people a bit of an idea about the tools required for tie rod and rack end replacement, you'll need the following on top of your basic tool kit which would have a range of sockets, spanner, socket wrench and breaker bar:
27mm spanner
30mm adjustable wrench
50mm adjustable wrench
2 support stands to hold the front end of your car up
Red locktite for the rack end. Don't waste your time with blue locktite on vital automotive parts under stress. You'll only need a thin line of it. Don't over use or you'll need to melt it with heat if undoing next time.
A mapp gas torch to possibly free the frozen tie rod lock nut between the tie rod and rack end
A decent sized hammer to belt the sh*t out of the tie rod knuckle joint with to free it and get it to drop out. Not a standard hammer as it won't do. You may even need to use back end of a block spitter or sledge hammer and swing it hard with the limited room you've got into the knuckle repeatedly if all else fails. But you'll need a decent heavy hammer at the very least.
Spray lubricant to possibly soak the tie rod bolt with over night if you can't free it.
Grease to grease the threads with when you put it all back together so you'll be able to get it undone easier next time. It also helps your wheel alignment guy.
Also use the NLGI 2 grease to pack the new rack end ball joint with as it'll most likely be sparingly greased.
Don't worry about buying a standard length pickle fork as I've personally found them useless. More separating force is required then what they can offer.
Ive never used one, but a hydraulic ball joint separator would do the job if all else failed.

If you buy after market tie rods try to buy ones with grease nipples so it's serviceable. They are available. Aftermarket sealed tie rods won't last as long, especially if they're sparingly greased at time of manufacture, whereas if you keep the grease up to serviceable ones when greasing the Uni joints every oil change, then they'll last a long time.