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OH dear - BLOCKED OIL PICKUP - in 19,000klms - this may save your engine

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  • OH dear - BLOCKED OIL PICKUP - in 19,000klms - this may save your engine

    So recently oldgreyfart has had some major issues. It appears he has been well educated here on pp & done the right things. Probably just trusted a workshop a little too much. There is many stories I can share like this.
    I'm getting in trouble with a few of you guys for being a bit harsh on some of these places, but it really is widespread.
    I really want to warn you about this, to help prevent major problems as ogf is having, like many others.
    Most of this is preventable!

    I share with you what I can, I have a very interesting one this week.
    To be clear, I work alone, I have the tools, knowledge, expertise & time to do the job right.
    I have never had a "comeback" injector job, till now. So yes it can happen to me.

    The BDG injectors & BDG seats/sheets were professionally installed at 103k, early last year.
    The vehicle is an 2008, which had revised seats & no blow by at 103k.

    So client calls a few days ago, tells me about some smoke on start up. She's on 122k now.
    The smoke only happened twice. After a long trip, after the vehicle sat all day.
    So we discuss options & I'm keen to check it out. We discussed it being ok & probably not what we both think it may be, you see it would be a first & very unusual. We were maybe going to do a few other little tune up items.
    You see it's just been serviced 120k, the oil pickup is ok ??? but you know I don't trust many to do much, even check oil pickup correctly, as we have seen with ogf, not a good result.
    I would trust all you people reading this to check it better than many workshops
    My client was told the oil pick up was ok.
    Now if I get any of my facts wrong, I will edit to be sure this is the real deal.

    Step 1 full diagnostic, injectors look ok.

    Step 2 drop out new oil, could be a waste.............

    Hole cow batman! Myself & BDG (Matt) are equally surprised at this.


    All cleaned up prepared for removal.


    Fuel lines removed, common rail & lines capped.



    It takes time to take care.
    Injectors capped as soon as cover is removed.

    Return side capped.


    Injectors out

    Port 1 with blow by

    19,000k

    I can tell you this has been leaking since it went in.
    Quite a bit blown out of the BDG sheet/washer. Worst I have seen, I think.


    THE BIG MESSAGE IS CHECK THE OIL PICKUP EVERY SERVICE 5000k.
    Regardless of what Type of seats were used.


    More to come, watch this 1# post
    Anth120playdo
    Banned
    Last edited by Anth120playdo; 20-05-2016, 08:06 PM.

  • #2
    Some general information about blow by:

    Blow by = in this case we are talking about the injector seating surface / gasket / head leak.
    It's a leak of compression gasses up the injector port.

    This is a general picture,
    2nd from the right is how it should look.
    2nd from the left is blow by.

    In this case it was caused by a Toyota dealer not cleaning the ports.
    The injectors were put in on dirty ports.
    This is what a port can look like, it's bad as it has blow by.


    How to clean ports:

    Special tool hardwood dowel from Bunnings.



    Keep polishing & replacing rags till it looks like

    Yes time consuming to do it right.

    A top quality torque wrench like "warren & brown" to torque the injector clamps 22NM.

    Yes I even torque the dummy injectors for the compression test.

    NOW CONTINUED FROM POST 1.

    The sheets/washers/seats, whatever you like to call them.

    The oil o-ring which blows out & lets oil down
    New & failed to compare

    The cleaning ports, a port with blow by is lots of extra work


    Getting better
    Anth120playdo
    Banned
    Last edited by Anth120playdo; 20-05-2016, 07:46 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok so now the port is clean like new again

      Injectors cleaned up a Little.

      New o-rings, sheets/washers Toyota brand, leakage washers, nozzle seals, cover gasket etc, ready to go back together.



      But I want to know why. So I'm doing lots of analysing.
      Number1 on the right & 2 on the left


      Number 4 on the left & 3 to its right.

      Number 3 has very little contact area, on one side. Not ideal at all.
      Another view


      Number 2&4 look good, like so.......


      Number 1. hard to tell as its black from leaking, but it may have been worse than no.3


      These seats look yellow like brass & are very hard, they don't look like copper & are not soft like copper.


      So I did a test, on the left a new BDG seat. On the right a new Toyota coated seat.
      Put them in the small old dawn vice gave it - light crank, Toyota left deep marks easily.
      BDG seat a went a bit harder, it was difficult to mark.


      Houston we have a problem.
      I think if the seat is hard, it will not allow any flex to allow it to seat & seal.

      Now I'm consulting with BDG, will advise further once confirmed.
      Anth120playdo
      Banned
      Last edited by Anth120playdo; 20-05-2016, 08:05 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        If my camera can see a blocked oil pickup through the sump hole, your eye can see it.
        You don't need a camera.

        This is after a quick clean up, but you can see the difference.



        So when that area at the bottom of the injector leaks, the heat of compression eventually melts & blows out the o-ring. See about 2 inches up from the sheet.

        Just above that o-ring is an oil passage, the oil then flows down the injector & get baked & carbonised.
        It can then still flow around down to the sump. By now you get the picture?
        When the pump sucking to pick up oil & the pick up is blocked, you have an oil starvation problem to the whole engine.

        CAUTION: when your oil light comes on its too late.

        Slowly the damage is being done, bottom end lack of lubrication is commonly a first point of catastrophic failure.

        Also TURBO damage! Camshafts in head premature wear & much more.

        This is why the new long motor is the best option IMO.

        CHECK THE OIL PICKUP WITH A TORCH AT EACH OIL CHANGE.
        Anth120playdo
        Banned
        Last edited by Anth120playdo; 20-05-2016, 07:49 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          So if we don't do our own oil changes, we should ask for that photo at every oil change?
          2008 D4D M6 GXL [MT ATZ-P3][Whitey's Ironman 45710FE/45682FE+KTFR101H/Dob487][extended Roadsafe links][Polyairs][DBA T3/T2][amts diffdrop & recovery points][Tin175's stone guards][Bushskins BashPlate][ARB Sahara][IPF 900s][Snorkel][WindCheetah][MaxTrax][IC-440][Parrot Asteroid][ARB Fridge][Lifestyle 2nd Row Fridge Mount][ARB Compressor][Thumper][SandGrabbers][Cargo Barrier][Tigerz Awning][MCC Rear Bar]

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow its a shame something so easy to pick up is catch out so many people.
            #### have you got any reports on how the new 2.8l 1gd is going hope like hell its sorted this time round
            Arb colour code deluxe bar, safari snorkel, lightforce venom HID's, GME uhf remote face, redarc tow pro, redarc bcdc 1240, pioneer platform, 40" curved light bar, dual battery, 3" SS exhaust, EGR mod, trans cooler upgrade, provent catch can, scangauge 2, diesel care secondary fuel filter, Tin's bash plates and actuator gaurd, 2in Bilstien and kings lift,

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by photoprado View Post
              So if we don't do our own oil changes, we should ask for that photo at every oil change?
              Absolutely!
              Or
              Once you have one, if you trust them, then at least you know they do know how to look.
              My concerns are, you ask them to check the oil pickup & they say yep yep, to embarrassed to ask WTF.
              Once they know what you do, they will check it.

              Originally posted by Hally View Post
              Wow its a shame something so easy to pick up is catch out so many people.
              #### have you got any reports on how the new 2.8l 1gd is going hope like hell its sorted this time round
              I'm not going to know too much about it for a while. But I'd say stick with 1kd.

              Comment


              • #8
                Leaking issues seem to be a concern with any Direct Injection diesel where the injector seals need to be replaced regularly as maintenance items. I have a 1KZ diesel but am working on my brothers TD5 Discovery where the copper washers and O-rings leak carbon into the fuel return line so carbon ends up in the tank. Ends up Sludging up a $500 fuel pump, filter, fuel pressure reg etc. and a low power/no start condition. Not as bad as a blown motor but certainly a expensive pain in the ass and hard to diagnose properly, he has 185k on the clock and 3 fuel pumps and a fuel reg to date, told him to change the fuel filter ever service and cut it open to check. As well as injector seals every 50,000km it's only a $30 set of seals and few hrs labour compared to the whole fuel system change and tank drop and flush.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Anth120playdo View Post
                  If my camera can see a blocked oil pickup through the sump hole, your eye can see it.
                  You don't need a camera.

                  This is after a quick clean up, but you can see the difference.
                  How is the clean up done, do they need to pull things apart, if so how long would that take ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ####, so you reckon no need for inspection camera? You can see it with a naked eye? Planning on dropping my oil next week if I get a chance.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pjorek View Post
                      ####, so you reckon no need for inspection camera? You can see it with a naked eye?
                      Yup, all you need is a small flexi head torch and your eye balls
                      [url=http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=12264]My Prado[/url]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It can be challenging to see for those of us with big bash plates, hence the use of the inspection camera. They are cheap as chips now.
                        Dave
                        Views expressed are mine alone and are not intended to compromise the integrity of my employer nor offend those who may read such views.
                        Bugger Bali, get out and see Australia before we sell it all to China.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I do have access to an inspection camera so might be the way to go.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ozimacca View Post
                            How is the clean up done, do they need to pull things apart, if so how long would that take ?
                            Dave ths is something you don't need to worry about too much.
                            All you need to do is make sure whoever is doing your oil changes is checking the oil pickup screen.
                            More info to come, after today's discovery.

                            Originally posted by pjorek View Post
                            ####, so you reckon no need for inspection camera? You can see it with a naked eye? Planning on dropping my oil next week if I get a chance.
                            I have cameras & never needed to use them to pick a contaminated pick up. I use to check pistons etc.
                            Even early stages like this you can pick with your eye.



                            See plenty contamination to pick the problem.
                            But still plenty of room for oil to be sucked.
                            This is when you want to find it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              First 3-4 posts updated.

                              Maybe a big discovery? Or a theory which is wrong?

                              Any engineers or diesel experts ideas & comments welcomed.

                              Comment

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