Bilstein and kings lift kit

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Mark

ride in my truck is great. Never had any diving issues, just rubbish tough dog shock issues. The TD have woeful rebound rates and it's getting crazy. I know of a few 150 owners with the medium 660 in/lb springs that are more than happy. The Kings I have ordered are the heavy rating (more like taller medium I reckon) and the ones below the HD. I'm extremely concerned about the inner guard crack issue, hence I stay with the lighter rating spring. As stated, they cost bugger all and I'm happy to swap them if required in the future.

Hey Matt,

As amts said, very interesting, and excellent call on the guard cracking and running a lighter spring.

I'd also be interested to know what ride height you achieved with the KTFR-101?

Regarding the Tough Dog strut, do you know what the rebound is?

I'm currently compiling a new thread for Bilsteins with all the valving figures, and there is quite a big range, over a 1000N difference in rebound for front struts.

It would be interesting if you know the Tough Dog valving!

Best

Mark

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

I'm currently compiling a new thread for Bilsteins with all the valving figures, and there is quite a big range, over a 1000N difference in rebound for front struts.

Interested to see that Whitey.

My Bilsteins go pogo in the outback after a few creek crossings. I don't know if it is wear or just wrong valving. Short trips on bitumen they are ok, a bit of pitch under brakes or acceleration. They haven't done a lot of km, but mostly outback (it's a trip car) Currently thinking of putting in some Dobinsons MRR's

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Interested to see that Whitey.

My Bilsteins go pogo in the outback after a few creek crossings. I don't know if it is wear or just wrong valving. Short trips on bitumen they are ok, a bit of pitch under brakes or acceleration. They haven't done a lot of km, but mostly outback (it's a trip car) Currently thinking of putting in some Dobinsons MRR's

Hey,

When you say "pogo", do you mean the Prado is pitching back and forth along the axis of the car, or do you mean straight/up down bounce?

It's likely a combination of two factors, i) a mismatch in your suspension frequency, which typically occurs when the front spring rate is too high compared to the rear...a very common issue in Prados, and ii) your 712/713 combo is flogged and the rebound damping is shot and the spring is banging back hard and bouncing. It's easy to test, just set up some speed bumps that are around wheelbase apart in length, and drive over them at around 10-20km/h. When the pitching starts, see how many cycles it takes to damp out. I noticed when I had 712/713 that this was particularly bad, and they couldn't cycle out a pitching surfboard, let alone a big heavy Prado.

The rebound damping on the 712 is 1000N lower than some other Bilstein struts that you can use. The powers that be say 712 is valved to Australian conditions, however, I know many are running much stiffer struts on 120/150/FJ and are very happy with the ride quality.

The 713 really shouldn't be used in a lifted vehicle, it has less travel than the OEM rear shock, and you end up with minimal droop on the rear, and a common complaint with 713 will be oil leaks from top outs.

Considering the issues you've had, you might want to look at something which has tuneable valving...the MRR don't as far as I know? Maybe Profender? FOX or Icon if you have the coin.

The 712/713 combo is a long way off the limits of the Prados suspension geometry, so you might want to consider some longer travel gear for your upgrade!

Best

Mark

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Straight up and down bounce at the front. Takes 3-4 cycles to settle down. Rear behaves, no sign of leaks (713 with airbags).

Springs are ridepro medium. Prado has front and rear bars, dual spare wheels, no winch. Will probably swap them out, maybe Dobinson 314/327.

The measurements I have say the A713 has 580mm extension vs standard 575.

Standard Dobinson 120 MRR's are F: 427-560, R: 362-583 so 44mm extra wheel travel at front and 8mm at rear over standard.

MRR Rear shock options MRR LC80 is 603 (+28mm), MRR 60701 is 615mm (+40mm)

MRR's are revalveable back at the Dobinsons dealer, but not by the owner. A set of MRR shocks are around $1300, way less than on vehicle adjustables.

[matt150 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close matt150]

Mark

after looking at the database and doing some more research, I've changed my order to the HD springs.

cheers for the advice.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Whitey, we should probably take this discussion to the Dobinsons MRR thread. I'll repost my comments there.

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...bsorbers/page3

[Hally Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hally]

Well got the lift done today so far over the moon with it especially because of the price and also the service from Fulcrum yeerongapilly.
Ended up with the HD fronts and rest the same as my first post.
So heights after lift
Front - 810mm
Rear - 840mm with 15psi in airbags.
The fronts were put on the middle circlip grove as I don't have the winch fitted yet.

[Hally Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hally]

Well got the lift fitted today so far over the moon with it especially because of the price and the service from Fulcrum yeerongapilly.
Heights after lift
Front - 810mm
Rear - 840mm with 15psi in airbags.
The fronts are on the middle circlip grove as I don't have a winch to fit yet. Haven't checked travel/droop as yet haven't had time

[Murry Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Murry]

Mark you seem to be really knowledgeable about the bilsteins!

In terms of matching to the D4D 150 (with a spring change - kings or dobinsons) what is the difference between the
BE 712/713 and the B6 24-173032/ 24-2173049?

If the B6 are better suited, for ~40mm lift should we go to the extended length 24-173032-1/24-217897 or will this put brake lines etc at risk?

Thanks

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Mark you seem to be really knowledgeable about the bilsteins!

In terms of matching to the D4D 150 (with a spring change - kings or dobinsons) what is the difference between the
BE 712/713 and the B6 24-173032/ 24-2173049?

If the B6 are better suited, for ~40mm lift should we go to the extended length 24-173032-1/24-217897 or will this put brake lines etc at risk?

Thanks

Hey,

Everything you want to know about 120 and 150 Bilstein lengths and valving is here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...hs-and-Valving

As you're running a 150, theoretically you should be running a higher rebound strut that is matched to a stiffer 150 spec coil.

The 712 is a lower rebound 120 spec strut, 24-173032 is a higher rebound 150 spec strut, which is also longer.

I'm not certain about the 24-2173049 code you have quoted, is this a typo, as there should only be 6 numerals after the dash??

Brake lines are at full stretch in the 610-615mm open length range in the 120, I'm not sure if the 150 factory brake lines are longer, so if you decided to run the long travel 24-217897 in the rear, I would definitely put in extended brake lines to be sure. You will also need extended swaybar links, as the swaybar binds at around 615mm.

Many 150 drivers will run a softer front end than the oem high rebound (3200N)/high coil rate (750lb/in), as it can give quite a stiff front end, same applies to FJ drivers who also run 150 spec IFS.

I know two FJ drivers, one has the soft setup, the other the stiff setup, and the difference in stiffness is noticeable.

If you decided to run a softer front end in your 150, you could use 24-238762, matched with lower rate coils, eg, 600lb/in.

Best

Mark

[Murry Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Murry]

Brilliant, thanks for that! Big help. 24-2173049 was a typo should have read 24-173049.

I was looking at the dominions C59- 352 (bullbar and suspension together) which is similar to the OEM, but I dislike how the OEM suspension dips forward under braking so much. Is this more a result of the coil rate or the shocks?

Thanks for the link too, I'll read up. Appreciate your information.

[aussieranger Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close aussieranger]

Hi everyone, are there any issues with wear and tear on the CVs after doing a lift? Are they going to wear out quicker than the standard setup?
cheers

[ZORDO Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ZORDO]

24-173049 shock is too short for a raised vehicle. you should use 24-217897
Cheers

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Hi everyone, are there any issues with wear and tear on the CVs after doing a lift? Are they going to wear out quicker than the standard setup?
cheers

Depends on your lift.

If the front extension is well past standard, you might want to look at a diff drop kit. AMTS has one: http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...p-down-kit-120

[aussieranger Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close aussieranger]

Thanks @photoprado , was only looking at 50mm max.