Koni vs Bilstein

[Rebel78 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Rebel78]

Please share your experience and opinion on Koni Heavy Track 82, Koni HT RAID 88 and Bilstein B6

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Please share your experience and opinion on Koni Heavy Track 82, Koni HT RAID 88 and Bilstein B6

Hey,

As I know you wish to keep your Prado at factory height, I would recommend the RAIDS. I put these on a friends 120, and they give an excellent plush ride. More importantly, the RAIDS are limited in suspension travel, so are ideal for putting into vehicles that aren't being lifted, or direct OEM replacements. The 88-1712 (fronts) and 90-5404 (rears) will serve you well. The RAIDS are a massive diameter shock, and they will last the lifetime of your Prado! The RAIDS don't fade easily, and keep a cool cycling temperature compared to other shocks (because of the bigger diameter and more oil to resist fade).

You can get longer travel in the 82 series, but they are a smaller diameter than the RAIDS, and probably not as relevant for what you wish to do with your Prado.

The Bilsteins have a mixed reputation, particularly here in Australia. Lots of stories and opinions; typically won't last beyond 50,000km before leaking/and or valving becoming soft/difficulty cycling out pitch etc. I personally don't like Bilsteins, but others will swear by them.

Go the RAIDS, you won't be disappointed! You will be amazed at the size of them when you see them for the first time. The rears are so big the bush ring eye is offset so they can fit!

The only downside to the Konis is the bushes can be a bit on the poor side/distort/flow etc. and not last long, but you can replace them with something better when the time comes.

Best

Mark

[Rebel78 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Rebel78]

So beside size, whats are the differences in ride between the RAIDS and Heavy Tracks?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey,

Straight from the FAQ section on the Koni website;

Q: What is the difference between KONI Heavy Track and KONI HT RAID?
A: KONI Heavy Track shock absorbers are designed to improve ride and handling characteristics for overall all-day use. Sizing of the original shocks absorbers is respected and with the high quality components KONI uses the durability is improved. KONI HT RAID is intended for heavy duty use. The additional technical features HT RAIDs have make sure the shocks will last through very demanding safari’s, bush trips, pole expeditions, and so on. Capable of use in combination with heavy duty springs, HT RAIDs are often designed to cope with raised suspension.

I haven't driven a vehicle with HT shocks, so I can't speak from personal experience, but the RAIDS will have stiffer valving. This doesn't necessarily mean a harsher ride though, as the RAIDS give quite a plush ride around town.

Best

Mark

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Thanks for this currently going through same decision process What sort of prices have you been quoted? I've been told around 1k for 82s and 1.9k for 88/90.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Thanks for this currently going through same decision process What sort of prices have you been quoted? I've been told around 1k for 82s and 1.9k for 88/90.

Hey,

Sounds about right to me for the 88/90 combo, around 2K is what one of my mates spent (parts supplied only).

Just keep in mind if you are going to lift your Prado on the 88/90 RAIDS, you will have limited droop due to the limited travel of the RAIDS, see here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

You'll need to keep your lift around the 1" ride height to keep a decent amount of droop. The Kings KTFR-101/KTRR-102 combo works well in this regard.

Best

Mark

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Hey,

Sounds about right to me for the 88/90 combo, around 2K is what one of my mates spent (parts supplied only).

Just keep in mind if you are going to lift your Prado on the 88/90 RAIDS, you will have limited droop due to the limited travel of the RAIDS, see here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

You'll need to keep your lift around the 1" ride height to keep a decent amount of droop. The Kings KTFR-101/KTRR-102 combo works well in this regard.

Best

Mark

Thanks Mark. Does that spring combo provide 1" lift with no bull bar? Also how is the rear for towing?

[Guest Close Guest]

Note that the KTFR-101/KTRR-102 are raised springs for a stock 120.
KTFS-101/KTRS-102 are standard height springs on a stock 120 but gives 20-25mm lift.
For a stock 150, the front would need to be KTRR-101 and rears KTRS-102 to give 20-25mm lift because the 150 is heavier.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Thanks Mark. Does that spring combo provide 1" lift with no bull bar? Also how is the rear for towing?

Hey,

Amts is spot on, you'll need the KTFS-101/KTRS-102 combo if you don't have a bar. ...I personally don't like that the S coils are shorter than the OEM coils in free height, and get the same lift back by running a higher spring rate at 660lb/in compared to 605lb/in front, 260lb/in compared to 205lb/in rear. King Coils do this a lot across a wide range of vehicles.

I also think running 660lb/in coils in the front is a bad idea, as you will get noticeable vehicle pitch due to mismatch in suspension frequency between front and rear. You won't notice this so much on-road, but it will quickly become apparent in off-road situations. That is why I run 590lb/in front, 280lb/in rear, so the suspension frequencies are matched, as the off-road pitch on my first set of mismatched coils drove me crazy!

If you're doing mostly on-road driving, then the suspension frequency mismatch won't be an issue for you. I have a friend who is running the Koni/King 88-1712/90-5404/KTFR-101/KTRR-102 combo, but it is never driven off-road, it's just a fancy town Prado. He also knows it has limited droop with the Konis on lifted King coils, but it's not an issue driving on bitumen.

Regarding the towing, you will find the ball weight will pull the rear of the Prado down. Getting the rear of the Prado to stay at a decent ride height near level is difficult with coils alone, particularly with towing and loading up the rear. The easiest way to combat sag in the rear is with airbags.

Hope this helps you out!

Best

Mark

[Mrbean Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Mrbean]

I have been running Koni 82s, KTRS-102 (standard height) with airbags for just short of a year now. Good on corrugations like those around Docker River and Oonadatta track and on road but I think the setup maybe too soft for sand. Noticed over our last trip down south a lot of bouncing of the back end and rear axle when climbing rough soft sand tracks and virgin sand dunes especially when applying a fair bit of throttle. The rear axle bounce was a lot worse till I dropped most of the air pressure out of the airbags but still noticeable even then and almost certainly reduced the ability to climb steep tracks and dunes.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey,

The bouncing you describe is more likely vehicle pitch that can be attributed to a mismatch in suspension frequency between front and rear coils. This is a problem with the Kings in particular as they use a high 660lb/in coil on the front. It only takes a few percent mismatch in frequency to produce excessive vehicle pitch, particularly in sandy rutted conditions with low speed driving over shallow depressions that are close to the vehicle wheelbase in length....conditions you will always get with sand driving.

You can run a higher spring rate coil in the rear to overcome this, or as you have noticed, use airbags that effectively increase the coil rate.

Under load/acceleration you will also notice this, the rear of the Prado is notorious for being saggy and suffering anti-squat.

Best

Mark

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

To avoid duplication I've just put a question about springs in this thread http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post534907