Amada vs Cal off-road/Bilsten

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey zero,

I would also be checking what the closed-open lengths are on the rear shocks they've sold you!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Mate - not sure if I am doing this right but I disconnected the upper control arm from the hub last night and pushed down on the hub and lower control arm as far as I could with my weight on it bit by bit while turning the Rotor. Even with the CV at what I would say is an extreme angle, I didn't feel like it got anyway harder to turn or feel like there was any clunking etc.

Hey zero,

What you did isn't sufficient to measure the CV binding open length.

There is no need to disconnect the UCA from the hub arm.

You need to remove the strut+coil, and leave the strut cap bolted (x3 studs) to the boss of the strut tower. The strut cap bush should stay with the strut cap. There will be a bottom washer that comes off as you pull the strut out. Take the bottom washer and blue tac it on the back of the bush in the strut cap.

To remove the strut+coil, just follow amts detailed step by step procedure, it's easy to do;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ade-for-Grande

Make sure you put jack stands on both sides. You only need to remove a strut+coil on one side, but you will need the wheel off the ground on the other side.

Once you have the strut+coil out and have blue tac'd the washer in on the bush in the strut cap, then put the ball joint back together with the hub, you just need to nip the x2 bolts, no need to torque them.

Then you will have an assembled IFS on one side that is without strut+coil.

Grab a bottle jack and jack from the guard on to the UCA, and jack it down as far as reasonable, as you go, feel how much harder the rotor is to turn. Your body weight will not be sufficient, you need to jack it down.

Once you are at the point where you believe the rotor has become very difficult to turn, get a tape measure and measure from the bottom of the washer to the bottom strut bolt center line. This measurement gives you the open length that your CV binds at.

Once you get this measurement, and it is a crucial measurement for you to know, then you can safely tell Sean or Cal what maximum open length you want on the struts. 575mm may be too much, and 570mm may be enough.

No way to know until you do this measurement.

Make sure you post this info as well, as it is crucial for all of the 150 drivers who are running long travel struts!

Good luck, keep us posted!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

UPDATE: He did go on to inform me the OME struts are only 543mm to which I responded quite quickly with - the part # he was referring to and educated him with the fact that they also do one that is 570mm and gave him the part# of that to. :-) He didnt have much to say after that :-)

AJ is the best educator with this one as he runs 570mm open length OME struts.

The OME struts/shocks from ARB have a shroud flange that sits lower than the bottom washer flange. Struts such as N140S are always incorrectly quoted as 543mm open length (I've seen this figure on numerous forums), but that is only to the shroud flange! The open length to the bottom washer is 570mm.

Most other strut/shock manufacturers use a shroud cylinder that sits on the flange directly below the first washer.

...although I've seen some Lovells recently that have adopted the OME style with a lower shroud flange!

Best

Mark

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

By "re-build", this suggests to me you will get exactly the same struts back, and to get from 555mm to 575mm, they will prolly reduce the top-out bump stop thickness. That's what I did with the Hilux struts I'm currently running.
Best
Mark

If thats what is done then thats fine I guess... It will get over over the line for now and when the struts adventually fail then I'll throw them in the bin and come back here and probably get something from Jason instead :-) Like Koni's
I just want to get my car running at this point cause we are actually struggling now with only one car.

Must say I dont know exactly how to go about this but I am planning on contacting Bilstien with all the facts about standard vs' the so called long travel struts that are getting marketed as such when in fact this is not even close to reality. I wonder if a big brand like Bilstien would be concerned about this situation and deal with Cal accordingly??

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Hey zero,
I would also be checking what the closed-open lengths are on the rear shocks they've sold you!
Best
Mark

Hahaha I know - it did cross my mind but I am not even going to there - the rear end although not quite three inch looks fine and I guess its hard to tell if its riding good till I get the front end sorted but happy with it for now and there seems to be enough articulation when lifted etc. so I'm just going to leave it be for the time being.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Not sure if I'd already posted these so here go's This is what it all looks like installed - you can see the front end is way to high but with the 33" it sure looks the Business :-) can't wait to get it all sorted and back together.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

OK Mark - Took me a little while but a finally go my head around this...

So I put just the Strut tophat in place with the three bolts. Put the inner bush and the bottom washer that would be sitting on the top of the strut in with some blue tac.

Pressed it all down until it was binding then backed it off just a little to where it was turning again without binding

And then measured from the center of the bottom bolt hole where to bottom of the strut would go onto the washer at the top.... Effectively would would be the open length of the strut.

Drum Roll..............

The measurement I took was 580mm (+ 2 or 3mm) So this would suggest that a 575 length Strut would be the ideal partner for a lifted 150 if you take into account that the bush would compress by about 10mm as well BUT BUT BUT
Please note that I have already put a 1" diff drop... So If you have 570mm length struts already then I would strongly suggest you put a diff drop kit in asap.

Hope this helps... And do remember My measurement of maximum strut length of 580mm taken above to avoid binding is assuming a 1" diff drop installed.

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

Jason - quick question if you dont mind. Would I be ok putting the new shorter springs they send me on my original struts in order to atleast get moving while I wait for the rebuilt struts to come back ? I realise they are shorter but figure if this is what Cal is sending out and there are other people out there riding struts this length it should be safe enough to get me by for a week or so ??

Your OE struts will be a bit too short for the raised springs, even 2".
Will have a similar effect to what you have just been through with the others.
Do you have your OE springs still?

Regards, Jason.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Yip understand, but figure that if they are no shorter than those sent by Cal in the first place then as long as I take it easy at least I can have my car on the road. As I expect I'd be very lucky to see struts back from Cal before Monday after next.

Original struts and springs still assembled, but I now have 33" tyres fitted and the rear jacked up so would look like a clown driving around like that :-)

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

And so the saga continues :-)

New springs arrived - They are 398mm.... only 22mm shorter than the ones they first sent me and after we had a lengthy discussion and both agreed that he would send 40mm shorter coils but at least this time they only send HD and not SHD and this one isn't a progressive rate.... PartNumber# CSHLHD150
Anyway
Who know's maybe the slightly shorter (non-progressive spring) with the slightly longer strut will in fact be the magic ticket.

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

And so the saga continues

New springs arrived - They are 398mm.... only 22mm shorter than the ones they first sent me and after we had a lengthy discussion and both agreed that he would send 40mm shorter coils but at least this time they only send HD and not SHD and this one isn't a progressive rate.... PartNumber# CSHLHD150
Anyway
Who know's maybe the slightly shorter (non-progressive spring) with the slightly longer strut will in fact be the magic ticket.

You may find that although the coil is only 22mm shorter, it may have a lighter spring rate that will sit it that 40mm shorter at it's loaded height.

For instance, some springs may be exactly the same height as an OE part, but sit the car 30mm higher when installed due to the higher spring rate.

Regards, Jason.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

OK Mark - Took me a little while but a finally go my head around this...

So I put just the Strut tophat in place with the three bolts. Put the inner bush and the bottom washer that would be sitting on the top of the strut in with some blue tac.

Pressed it all down until it was binding then backed it off just a little to where it was turning again without binding

And then measured from the center of the bottom bolt hole where to bottom of the strut would go onto the washer at the top.... Effectively would would be the open length of the strut.

Drum Roll..............

The measurement I took was 580mm (+ 2 or 3mm) So this would suggest that a 575 length Strut would be the ideal partner for a lifted 150 if you take into account that the bush would compress by about 10mm as well BUT BUT BUT
Please note that I have already put a 1" diff drop... So If you have 570mm length struts already then I would strongly suggest you put a diff drop kit in asap.

Hope this helps... And do remember My measurement of maximum strut length of 580mm taken above to avoid binding is assuming a 1" diff drop installed.

Excellent work!

So the 150 CV binds at around the same length as the 120 CV, right around 580mm.

Most guys run a maximum of 570mm open length on the 120...just so the CV isn't going to bind when a wheel is off the ground at full droop and you come down hard on it...bad things can happen!

You will prolly still be ok with 575mm, just check it again once you have the 575mm strut back in, get the front end at full droop and feel how hard it is to turn the rotor, and also if the boot of the CV is binding.

If it's really binding hard at 575mm, you can run a limiting strap to be safe, and keep the open length to 570mm.

Top work!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

And so the saga continues :-)

New springs arrived - They are 398mm.... only 22mm shorter than the ones they first sent me and after we had a lengthy discussion and both agreed that he would send 40mm shorter coils but at least this time they only send HD and not SHD and this one isn't a progressive rate.... PartNumber# CSHLHD150
Anyway
Who know's maybe the slightly shorter (non-progressive spring) with the slightly longer strut will in fact be the magic ticket.

I would double check if they have given you a linear or progressive coil.

A 398mm linear coil is quite tall, and should still give you plenty of lift on the front!

...the tallest off the shelf linear coil is C59-314 from Dobinsons, which is 405mm free height. Most guys running 3"+ use this coil.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

...also a minor correction for the title of this thread, can mods please change it to Amada without the 'r' in Armada.

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Most guys run a maximum of 570mm open length on the 120...just so the CV isn't going to bind when a wheel is off the ground at full droop and you come down hard on it...bad things can happen!

You will prolly still be ok with 575mm, just check it again once you have the 575mm strut back in, get the front end at full droop and feel how hard it is to turn the rotor, and also if the boot of the CV is binding.

Hmm better check my Bilstein 5100 for CV binding. It is supposedly 573mm open length. I have a diff drop though.