Centre Diff Lock in Sand

[Corigator Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Corigator]

And remember that the 120 auto doesn't drop into 1st easily. A manual push into 1st locked high range may obviate the need for low range up most of the dunes

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

L4 in the 120 is a higher gear than H1, I imagine the 150 would be similar.

Cheers Andrew

[mybo Member Find all posts View Profile Close mybo]

Low range is very useful in sand. Yes you need speed and momentum to keep from digging in, but you can happily do 30km/h or more in low range, which is generally plenty of speed. Torque is important, if you start to bog down, you need torque on hand. Not saying you always should be/need to be in low range, but its a common misconception that it doesn't need to be used at times in soft sand.
This info is direct from the professional training I got a few years back, and we got to practice it with an instructor in the car in sandhills as well.

[geoffmc1 Member Find all posts View Profile Close geoffmc1]

Guys,

the main difference between Traction Control and Stability Control is the TC acts only on braking the spinning wheel, whereas Stability Control brakes the spinning wheel AND retards engine power, as a result of turning the steering wheel. The SC retards engine power as a result of angle sensors within the steering system.

Hope this helps.

cheers
Geoff

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Symo, must say I disagree with you there. I have tried various times different set ups. Eg using low range, using high range, 2nd gear start (auto box) etc. When I was up blacksmiths beach near Newcastle I used low range all day. It went heaps better as the torque was where it was needed. In high range 1st it was struggling, foot flat and was trying to dig down, backed off and gentle throttle etc and just didnt want to work for me. Wacked in low range and wow what a difference. Alot depends on the conditions. I have been on stockton in my old 2.8D hilux power house (NOT) and was cruising around in 3rd gear high range, go back 3 weeks later and I was struggling in low range first and tyres down to 14psi. The sand was that soft so conditions play a huge part. Yes speed definitely makes a difference but with the V6 being able to rev once I was in low range ran tyres at 18psi man it was just aim and put the boot in, the V6 was singing like a canary and was firing up some fairly boggy soft sand dunes. Its funny some people have their own ways. Some say dont use centre diff lock when on sand ?? As soon as I hit the sand I at least lock the centre diff lock, high or low range is depending on how I find the conditions.....Cheers Steve

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Leigh you cant turn off traction control on the 95 or 120's. Its on all the time. Only thing that turns off is the stability control (VSC) when you lock centre diff lock. My old 95 grande would turn off VSC as soon as I hit the centre diff lock button. I dont have it on my 120. To be honest I never had an issue with traction control on the sand. If any thing twice it actually saved me from bogging myself as I felt it cut in so I backed off where as with out it probably wouldnt have felt it bogging me down but I did need to go to low range to get my self out as the traction control was trying its best but I was getting now where, low range and I lifted up out the bog, may have been the extra torque ?? I know my mate was having all sorts of problems in his exceed mitsi pajero as the bloody VSC kept cutting in on his and taking all the power away. We sat there on the beach doing a google how to turn it off on his lol. Turned out by his using LOW range in the mitsi it turns off stability control, then he was all ok for the rest of the day. Probably not a bad idea as if your on a dirt road but in high range it still gives you that safety where as with the prado 95/120, one you hit centre diff lock it turns if off so you lose that safety feature if you were travelling dirt roads....least they solved it all with the 150, you can do what you like lol...Cheers Steve

[Symo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Symo]

Centre Diff Lock in Sand

Symo, must say I disagree with you there. I have tried various times different set ups. Eg using low range, using high range, 2nd gear start (auto box) etc. When I was up blacksmiths beach near Newcastle I used low range all day. It went heaps better as the torque was where it was needed. In high range 1st it was struggling, foot flat and was trying to dig down, backed off and gentle throttle etc and just didnt want to work for me. Wacked in low range and wow what a difference. Alot depends on the conditions. I have been on stockton in my old 2.8D hilux power house (NOT) and was cruising around in 3rd gear high range, go back 3 weeks later and I was struggling in low range first and tyres down to 14psi. The sand was that soft so conditions play a huge part. Yes speed definitely makes a difference but with the V6 being able to rev once I was in low range ran tyres at 18psi man it was just aim and put the boot in, the V6 was singing like a canary and was firing up some fairly boggy soft sand dunes. Its funny some people have their own ways. Some say dont use centre diff lock when on sand ?? As soon as I hit the sand I at least lock the centre diff lock, high or low range is depending on how I find the conditions.....Cheers Steve

Start in H4 - only delve in L4 when needed, then get out again.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Symo, you need to understand that not all sand is the same. When I spent 9 days going across the top of the Simpson desert we often couldn't travel faster than 5-8kms / hr, so all driving in High would have done was cook the Auto!

Likewise if I take my camper trailer down the Border Track I use low range, it's a rough track so you need to go slow. When you get to the big dunes 1st high doesn't give enough speed, 2H is too much speed not enough torque. I get it into L4 and towards the top it drops back a gear, high range just doesn't work!

There are plenty of other times where low works better than high, and vice versa.

Cheers Andrew

[Mattyzvx Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mattyzvx]

Low rang defiantly has its use in sand. I use L4 quiet a bit in sand as it's handy having that extra torque on hand once you have momentum it's much easier to keep in L4. it also keeps the transmission from getting to hot which doesn't take long in H4 on soft sand. The ATF temp on the scan gauge can be scary to watch at times in H4 in sand. But as mentioned before not all sand is the same and sometimes H4 does the trick but it works the engine and transmission a lot harder. In extremely soft sand from a standing start the 150 will crawl out of almost anything in L4 first gear IDLE!!! (Must be Idle) as soon as you touch the right peddle it will start sinking again !!

[Symo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Symo]

Having spent a week on Fraser towing a trailer and also driving without the trailer, standard ride height with airbags in the rear I found the following observations while keeping in mind the above comments.

1. H4 or L4?

I never tried L4, even when towing through the soft sand at Inskip and Hook point, the prado had more than enough torque in 2nd to spin the wheels at 40kmh, going to L4 would not have achieved anything except force me to drive in 3rd of 4th instead, also having the ability to spin the wheels with a similar final drive ration as H4 2nd. I had 4 blokes in the car, two fridges (80L and 60L) plus a 700kg trailer.

Past the soft sand at the two points (rest of the island) was all hard sand, and also without the trailer, there was almost no difference to driving on the highway to the beach. L4 even less required, the D4D has no problems keeping pace with the STX-550 Nav which is a class above when it comes to power and torque. the owner of that ute was an ex-tour guide, and agreed that L4 was only there for gutless 4 Cyl petrols from the 1990s. there is no terrain on Fraser that requires it. But if you want to do into L4 the have fun, but you wasting fuel.

2. Centre diff lock?

I opted to lock the centre diff at Inskip and kept it locked around Hook Point, with the low slung prado pushing sand and pulling weight it was wheel spin city for the first 10km or so of soft sand, I figured this would even out the offload of torque to all wheels better than the torsen LSD in the centre. As soon as we round the point I reached down and unlocked it. Couldn't tell the difference after that except that making tight turns on soft sand is WAY easier with it unlocked. There is almost no difference in 4WD traction between the two settings in soft of hard sand, i only engaged it for piece of mind while I fish tailed on the side sloping soft sand at the narrow Hook Point with the tide coming in.

3. ESC/TRC?

I left this all on through Inskip, then part way through Hook Pt the fish tailing (mainly from the other tracks) caused the trailer sway to fire in from time to time, also the yaw of the trailer started causing the front wheels (outside to the yaw) to through rooster tails under hard throttle 2nd H4, the TRC was keeping this in check, but there was no loss of momentum, just the occasional but consistent grind of the ABS pump doing its thing. I stopped, turned them all off and carried on, nothing changed, the car behaved the same just with out the noise and orange lights. The biggest issue here is the lack of LSD rear, this is the first time I have driven a 4WD on sand with no rear LSD and it definitely sucks more. A rear diff lock may have prevented the rooster tails but you wouldn't be able to hand on to it at 50kmh, most stock diff locks unlock about 20kmh and after market ones would be better, but not for the 5-10mins it *might* have slightly improved things.

Once unloaded and unhitched I drove even single KM for the week in H4, centre unlocked and ESC/TRC on and only heard form the ESC/TRC 3 times in 400kms. This was when crossing inland intersections which are soft and puffy piles of sand, mainly when having to turn slightly to cross them the slight under steer and rooster tail effect excited with TRC or ESC. I can't tell which because it was so brief you wouldn't worry about it. As I stated earlier in a previous post, TRC doesn't activate even with all four wheels spinning, so unless there is differential wheel speed like rooster tails from one front wheel, the TRC never wakes up.

I even went all over the west side of the island chasing flathead and whiting and again, never heard from either ESC/TSC systems and again couldn't tell the difference between centre diff lock or unlocked. You can spin all four wheels in the same mode you drive down the highway in, this is what I expected too.

We tooek home 25 bags of tailor in the freezer between us, and had a great time, the weather was perfect except it rained on the last night and I threw my old tent in the bin at Maheno. it had 2" of water in the bottom after I realised the water proof fly, wasn't.

On a side note, the Prado is VERY comfortable to sleep in with the fold flat chairs, just slide the passenger seat forward and lay the swag down and and sleep in piece and quiet!

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Certainly not the case with places like Stockton or blacksmiths beach. Again different situations call for different input...... I haven't been to Fraser yet but I'll know next year....cheers Steve

[meatman61 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close meatman61]

OK, we are back from the Simpson, and here is what i found worked for me in the sand (dunes). I found H4 to be very capable on the dunes in most cases. We towed a camper , and was amazed how well the little diesel did on the sharpest of dunes. The hardest to get over without another try , were the ones with one , or several woops at the start, so even a slow run-up , was not possible. I didnt need winch or strap help on a single dune,(we went Rig/K1/QAA to big red..west to east).
I did get stopped on 4 dunes, just backed down, took a slightly different line, and pulled over with very minimal wheel slip. Centre diff locked, and TRC off, did the trick well.
The only time i used L4, was in the arvo when it warmed up a bit, the trans over-temp light came on when in a section where the dunes were close, so i guess the trans heat just built up a bit to much.
We were only down to 16-18 PSI on tyres, so had plenty more leeway on tyre pressures if needed, but was all good.

[Symo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Symo]

Certainly not the case with places like Stockton or blacksmiths beach. Again different situations call for different input...... I haven't been to Fraser yet but I'll know next year....cheers Steve

Well I did say is used lock centre and ESC and TRC off in the soft sand with the trailer, if I was constantly running in dry dunes you would have to maintain this condition until things straightened out. But the locked centre isn't always better when not towing it can be superior with better turn.

[Roach Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Roach]

Got a question for the guys with overheating trans in the soft stuff. Are u guys using it in 'D' or using as a manual?? I always use my auto as a manual when hitting the tracks and never had any problems with trans overheating? Just curious is all. I also use h4 CD engaged until bogged then back out in L4, tyre pressures are everything in sand if your bogging down let more air out! If its dunes and they're steep then it's trial and error till u work out what suits you. Anyways my 2 cents

[VXWesty Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close VXWesty]

I always use manual gear selection (Auto box) when on sand, mainly to keep the revs up which will keep your auto box temps down. I run a Scangauge and found that the temps would skyrocket to easily over 120-130 degrees in Auto mode low'ish revs. Anything over 2000 rpm is enough to lock the torque converter and help keep temps down.