On a budget. 120 series petrol vs 150 diesel. Help with making a choice please

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Sorry but half that doesn't make much sense and the rest sounds like excuses.

Fact is you are counting the devaluation difference at the start "My V6 cost ten grand less than a diesel equivalent" but you ignore it or put it in the too hard basket at the other end, sell time.

So as I said, if you are leaving out one of the major costs of owning a car, and one of the major cost differences between a Petrol and a Diesel then you haven't really crunched the numbers at all. What you have done is come up with a set of numbers to justify your purchase. That's easy, I can make any set of numbers add up any way I like if I leave out the bits that don't suit and make overly generous assumptions about the bits that do.

No doubt the sums for a Petrol add up for some people, in this case from the limited info we have to go on it may be the way to go. Only the OP has enough knowledge on intended use, amount of use, time frame, condition of vehicles he's looking at to make a decision.

I certainly wouldn't say that the Diesel will be the best and cheapest option for everyone............ just read my signature

Cheers Andrew

Read it again.

Like I said - its a rubbery figure and you can crunch it any number of ways.

If "depreciation" really bothers you and you sell and buy another vehicle before your current one "devalues to much" you have to ask if you're actually gaining anything financially by doing so? Also remember you are paying a chunk of tax every time you buy. Whats to be gained by doing this as opposed to keeping a vehicle for a long time and maintaining it?

If you keep buying and selling, its costing you every time, regardless of what you're "saving" on depreciation.

As an example - I will be keeping my 2005 VX for quite a few years. Probably ten, barring anything unforeseen. What am I going to lose as opposed to buying and selling two or three times over the same period?

Another example - A colleague has a 2001 GXL that he bought in 2002 with low k's. He only uses it for towing a boat or camper and trips away with the family, so it still has relatively low k's. When I was looking to buy, he also considered moving to a 120. The change over would have cost him a bomb. So he is justing sticking with it. It does the job and financially he is well in front.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Now your just making more stuff up, now your comparing someone who changes cars every few years to someone keeping one for decades, sure there is a difference and one can be more economical than the other, but that's not what this thread is about. Lets go back to what you said.

I will tell you straight up if you're considering a diesel because you want to save money - you won't.

I crunched the numbers over and over when I was buying and could not get the maths to work out that way.

You made a pretty cut and dried statement that a Diesel wont save people money, I refuted that and gave reasons why its been much cheaper having diesels for me, you responded to my point on depreciation with the following.

Depreciation is not something I ever take into consideration. I buy vehicles to use, not limit the amount of money I lose at sale time. I have always thought of this as a bit of a false economy.

So in your own words you have crunched the numbers but don't take depreciation into account depreciation is a fact of life on almost all vehicle purchases and if you don't take that into account then you haven't really crunched the numbers. I also might point out that you haven't actually produced these numbers you crunched either.

If you want to keep kidding yourself that you have then that's fine, but I doubt you are convincing anyone, least of all me.

Cheers Andrew

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Now your just making more stuff up, now your comparing someone who changes cars every few years to someone keeping one for decades, sure there is a difference and one can be more economical than the other, but that's not what this thread is about. Lets go back to what you said.



You made a pretty cut and dried statement that a Diesel wont save people money, I refuted that and gave reasons why its been much cheaper having diesels for me, you responded to my point on depreciation with the following.



So in your own words you have crunched the numbers but don't take depreciation into account depreciation is a fact of life on almost all vehicle purchases and if you don't take that into account then you haven't really crunched the numbers. I also might point out that you haven't actually produced these numbers you crunched either.

If you want to keep kidding yourself that you have then that's fine, but I doubt you are convincing anyone, least of all me.

Cheers Andrew

...and we also discovered the big reason you save by having a diesel vehicle is because you feed it with tax free diesel because you have a farm. I dare say you fudge a few more items via the same method and "save" a bit more. Cudos to you. I would if I could, but like most, I'm stuck paying full retail. So your situation is not relevant in this discussion.

In a nutshell if you buy once and stick with it, its cheaper than continually buying and selling and paying associated costs and taxes. How does factoring depreciation into that make it cheaper?

I'm happy to look over the P&L spreadsheet.

Interestingly, a few months ago, a 150 diesel GXL became one of my work vehicles. So I'm able to make direct comparisons between that and my V6 120. Admittedly, the 150 is carrying a permanent load, but so far, cost of fuel alone is not exactly setting the world on fire in the savings dept.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

...and we also discovered the big reason you save by having a diesel vehicle is because you feed it with tax free diesel because you have a farm. I dare say you fudge a few more items via the same method and "save" a bit more. Cudos to you. I would if I could, but like most, I'm stuck paying full retail. So your situation is not relevant in this discussion.

Wrong on all counts, I don't now nor have ever in the past owned a farm, nor I have I ever put tax free farm or any tax free fuel into my vehicle, I said I had access to Diesel at a discount to the bowser price, IE wholesale pricing. That was one of many factors in my particular set of circumstances, even without that I would still be miles in front with a Diesel.

I am not arguing Diesels are cheaper for everyone, I am saying that there is no blanket right or wrong answer as you suggested and each person needs to look at their particular circumstances.

In a nutshell if you buy once and stick with it, its cheaper than continually buying and selling and paying associated costs and taxes. How does factoring depreciation into that make it cheaper?

Yes if you buy a vehicle and take it to your grave then depreciation is not a factor, and if that is your particular set of circumstances then that's what you do your sums on. If you buy a vehicle a put it on blocks and never drive it then fuel, rego and maintenance are not a factor either, But most people do drive them and most people sell them at some point.

Cheers Andrew

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

I am not arguing Diesels are cheaper for everyone, I am saying that there is no blanket right or wrong answer as you suggested and each person needs to look at their particular circumstances.

I didn't say there was a blanket right or wrong answer. Many believe buying a diesel means you are automatically saving money. This is simply not the case and this is the statement I made.

But most people do drive them and most people sell them at some point.

How exactly do you take depreciation into account? How is it calculated? Who takes this into account when making buying and selling decisions? Do you buy and sell every twelve months while the vehicles "value" it at its highest? What financial benefit does this provide?

Yes if you buy a vehicle and take it to your grave then depreciation is not a factor

Finally we have agreement.

Thank you.

[merado Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close merado]

Appreciate all of the feedback. The 09 petrol 120 series I am looking at is the very last of the old shape. It's a GXL with less than 20,000kms on the clock. Price is $40,000 though.. a 2010 150 diesel GXL would cost me around $10,000 more than that with around 80,000kms on the clock. I do realise the 120 is relatively expensive but with the low kms and condition of the car it's like brand new and I haven't seen another in the same condition anywhere. I would really be stretching the budget if I went for the diesel but the thought of filling the v6 is pretty scary.

wow, 2009 and only did 20K km? $40k seems a good price IMO (not that i know anything about fair price lol). Of course i'd have to look at redbook's (did i just open a can of worms?) trade-in price and condition first before i'd decide. I wouldn't worry about fuel prices because they're about the same now and in reality, there's only about $5 difference per fill between dielsel and petrol (on a 150L tank).

not sure how you've decided or if you've reached a decision yet but what made me go for the petrol 150 was because of several factors. I like the up-to-date look of the 150 series. I only do about 8,000km/year max (and why i bought second hand). Because i plan to keep the car long term, i didn't care much if it didn't keep it's value. I figure, why have the extra expense of the diesel when i'm not going to take advantage of it. Apparently servicing is cheaper on petrol engines too. And most importantly because SWMBO said no diesel.

IMO, although it's a tough decision deciding between petrol and diesel, rest assured that neither is wrong

cheers..

[BlakMoth Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close BlakMoth]

Thanks for changing the subject merado, I thought it was going to be pistols at dawn for a while there 💀🔫

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

How exactly do you take depreciation into account? How is it calculated? Who takes this into account when making buying and selling decisions? Do you buy and sell every twelve months while the vehicles "value" it at its highest? What financial benefit does this provide?

Seriously? You have no clue as to how to estimate what can often be the biggest single expense in owning a vehicle

Wow, I really don't know what to say, just WOW!

If only we had an emoticon for someone walking away shaking their head, gee that would be handy right now.

Cheers Andrew

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Biggest cost in owning vehicles can often be depreciation, but because we are talking Toyota, generally fuel is the biggest.
Number 2 would likely be depreciation.
Then interest, whether you own it or not you have to allow a rate at its current value, as your money could be in the bank earning interest or better invested.
Service costs are piddly compared to the big 3.
Rego & insurance are the other notable costs, small in comparison to the big 3.

Even if u take it to the grave, It still needs to be sold as part of estate right?
An example of an old Prado could be a 90 series, what u get in petrol for $7k will be $17k in a diesel.
So I only take into account interest on the 10k? But atm it's closer to 5k, many are dumping their 120, to throw another $30-40k to get no a 150. 120's are great value atm. Put baileys injectors in & you own the best Prado out there! :-)

The fuel savings is a lot more than interest on 5-10k, unless you don't use the vehicle much.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

RACQ puts 5 year average running costs at: Diesel GXL - $82,892 vs Petrol @ $87,391
Depreciation @ $140.72 Diesel, $138.53 Petrol.
Fuel - 13.62 c/km Diesel, 18.85c/km petrol
Service costs are very similar 10.06 diesel, 10.25 petrol c/km

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars...sts#allTerrain

[gurtej176 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close gurtej176]

Biggest cost in owning vehicles can often be depreciation, but because we are talking Toyota, generally fuel is the biggest.
Number 2 would likely be depreciation.
Then interest, whether you own it or not you have to allow a rate at its current value, as your money could be in the bank earning interest or better invested.
Service costs are piddly compared to the big 3.
Rego & insurance are the other notable costs, small in comparison to the big 3.

Even if u take it to the grave, It still needs to be sold as part of estate right?
An example of an old Prado could be a 90 series, what u get in petrol for $7k will be $17k in a diesel.
So I only take into account interest on the 10k? But atm it's closer to 5k, many are dumping their 120, to throw another $30-40k to get no a 150. 120's are great value atm. Put baileys injectors in & you own the best Prado out there! :-)

The fuel savings is a lot more than interest on 5-10k, unless you don't use the vehicle much.

How much for the injectors, any idea of how much I can get a diesel 120 series with less than 100k's on the clock for? assuming good condition of the vehicle...Thanks a lot

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

gurtej check out Baileys site and the posts in here as they are a forum sponsor, from memory (which is fallible) you are looking at around $2 - 2.5k to do the whole shebang including changing the injector pipes. As for what is for sale the best bet is to hunt at the usual sites like car sales.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

How much for the injectors, any idea of how much I can get a diesel 120 series with less than 100k's on the clock for? assuming good condition of the vehicle...Thanks a lot

Depends on the model of 120.
D4D injectors (1KD engine) are $1200 for 4 from Baileys. Denso are about $4-500 per injector plus labour for install. About $700 from Toyota.
Pre D4D injectors are much less.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

gurtej check out Baileys site and the posts in here as they are a forum sponsor, from memory (which is fallible) you are looking at around $2 - 2.5k to do the whole shebang including changing the injector pipes. As for what is for sale the best bet is to hunt at the usual sites like car sales.

Replacing the pipes isn't necessarily needed. Another member here recently had the whole job done for $1750 with the latest Baileys injectors.

Cheers Andrew

[shodown Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shodown]

Ok guys, how about settling with some basic maths?

Using manufacturers stated combined fuel usage for AUTO 2010 150 GXL of 8.5L D4D and 11.5 L V6:

Over 100,000kms:
8.5 x 1000 @ $1.527 (cheapest diesel SOR for me) = $12,979
11.5 x 1000 @ $1.397 (cheapest ULP SOR for me) = $16,065

FYI - diesel is consistently priced versus ULP massive fluctuations, I wouldnt want to fillup a V6 Prado on a Thursday!!

Given you could expect 100,000km out of a set of injectors, the $2k of the $3k saved on fuel would be spent on "consumable" injectors, so you'd work out about $1k in front.

At the moment, the average cost of a D4D 150 GXL is around $47k and the V6 150 GXL $44k (again, citing local Perth examples)

Given the resale of these in 3-5 years time and the fact fuel / injector costs works out close to the same, I think I would still buy the diesel again.

Kevin