On a budget. 120 series petrol vs 150 diesel. Help with making a choice please

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Depreciation is not something I ever take into consideration. I buy vehicles to use, not limit the amount of money I lose at sale time. I have always thought of this as a bit of a false economy.



I'm curious to know how many k's you get from full to empty, assuming 180 litres? So far I am getting around 950kms from a fill. Town driving only at the moment. Remote driving also speaks to intended/predominate use, along with towing.

If you don't take depreciation into account you haven't really crunched the numbers, if you are looking at the costs you have to look at them all. Depreciation a lot of the time can be the biggest expense in owning a vehicle.

I work on 1200km from a tank when towing, if I didn't have the roof rack and awning that would be a bit better. Obviously if I get into extended areas with soft sand or low range work I struggle to get 1200km.

Cheers Andrew

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Cant say that I would agree with that advice. There are 2 Diesel variants in the 120. Up until early 2006 was the older 1kz motor which is as good and reliable as most diesel engines, the odd cracked head at high Km's but other than that pretty solid.

After that came the 1KD or D4D, it really has one issue and that's injectors which can cause expensive repairs if not caught early. However to say that you should steer clear of this and go the 150 isn't great advice, yes some of the issues have been rectified but the 150 is still prone to injectors failing and possible expensive bills. The fact that the 150 is newer than the 120 these issues haven't shown up as much.

If you look at the D4D diesel in a 120 I would just factor in the cost of a new set of injectors, check out Baileys Diesel Group here or google them as they will give you the best/ best value and best advice on any issues.

Outbackswine has covered pretty much everything you need to think about petrol V Diesel, the only things that I would add are that the extra cost buying a diesel is mitigated by the higher sale price when selling somewhat. Also having just swapped from a diesel Ute to a V6 Ute (not a Toyota unfortunately) it hurts everytime I go to fill up, that's a mental thing but it still hurts every week or 2.

Cheers Andrew

Everyone's circumstances are different, financially I am so far in front from owning a Diesel its not funny, but I am sure my circumstances are different to yours.

Cheers Andrew

X2

I will add, cost wise, Petrol is ok for highway Klm's, & no offroad or towing.
Then the fuel economy will only be 20% worse thn the diesel.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

You need to work out first if you want a 120 or 150. There are advantages to both. For example all the 150 GXLs have TC and STC while it was only those with the option pack that had this in the 120 (talking automatics since the manual has fewer electronic aids). Since you are looking at second hand the options fitted will depend on what is for sale so you may not be able to grab a 120 with TC, that would tip me into the 150 straight away. I prefer the look of the 150 and I find it quieter and slightly better on fuel than out 120 but others have had the opposite results. More room in the back of the 120 and the rear windows open which I miss in the 150. 120 carries 30L more fuel which isn't a killer for me but it might be if you are travelling long distances in the middle of nowhere. 150 has better 2nd row seats. 150 roofline is a little lower than the equivalent 120. That is probably about it. The driveline and chassis are the same with minor differences to the suspension. I would say each as capable as the other comparing apples with apples (same lift etc). The TC is a little more refined in the 150 from my experience but not a big deal. So pretty much compare the two and make up you mind which is the best fit and which you prefer to live with.

When it comes to engines there are a few things you need to consider. Obviously with the D4D it has had its problems in the 120s with injectors and injector seats, Toyota fitted 3 different injectors to the 120 over its life and two different seat materials. The injectors were changed in the 150 as was the computer and the 150 intercooler is mounted at the front which probably allows the top of the engine to stay cooler (there is some conjecture that the trapped heat contributes to the injector problems but basically the core problem is the injectors are wearing out). There are reports now of 150 D4Ds with injector issues so the D4D engine is not bullet proof and like all common rail diesels fuel cleanliness is paramount. Knowing the issues and how to deal with them are part of owning the D4D. Checking the injector feedback values and understanding that injectors are a consumable that need to be replaced is part of that. Considering the gear most of us have the D4D is pretty good on fuel, I know the engine is down on power compared to a lot of the competitors but I find the overall package pretty good and I am not wishing I had another 150Nm or 40kW. The diesel in both the 120 and 150 is well mated to the 5 speed automatic and the 150 tune is a little different which you will notice if you test drive both back to back.

The petrol engine is a good one. No doubt that it is strong and capable but depending on your driving style like any petrol it can be thirsty. There are people on this site that can quote fuel consumption figures that are not much different to what I am averaging over 30,000km with the D4D (high 10L/100km) but I know if I or the Minister for War and everything was in charge of one we wouldn't get anything like those numbers. I also know people with the petrol who in my mind drive pretty conservatively and they are averaging around 15 L/100km without towing anything heavy. Depends on where and how you drive. We have had diesels for the last five 4wd wagons and our driving is tailored to the diesel, slow and steady and rely on the torque rather that lots of revs and lower gears. Both techniques work it is just what you are used to and what you prefer. In soft sand the petrol will be very thirsty.

The petrol is definitely cheaper to buy both new and second hand assuming there is stock and cheaper to service. Only you can work out if the running costs are going to tip the balance to the diesel. When we bought the 150 I really wanted KDSS and the only VX that I could get my hands on was a petrol. Very attractive price and there were no diesel VXs in stock so pretty much full price. We went with the GXL because I couldn't do the petrol thing despite the gadgets and KDSS for not much more money.

So my advice is drive diesel and petrol 120s and 150s. Work out which body style you want with what options you want and then pick an engine. With appropriate levels of diligence the diesel is fine but then there isn't anything really wrong with the petrol either. Tough decision.

[gumboot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close gumboot]

Good post Michael. Sums it up nicely.
Cheers
Robert

[zutta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zutta]

OPTION 3- pick up a nice 1kz for under $25k. add some extras for another 5k.

Sit back with a icy cold beer admiring your 1kz while counting out the other 10k you have saved

[Gavin and Amy Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Gavin and Amy]

Thanks for all of that information. It has really helped me in deciding what to do. Cheers

[outbackswine Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close outbackswine]

OPTION 3- pick up a nice 1kz for under $25k. add some extras for another 5k.

Sit back with a icy cold beer admiring your 1kz while counting out the other 10k you have saved

And make sure you have the rego money close at hand, because it will run out before you get to the top of most hills

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

And make sure you have the rego money close at hand, because it will run out before you get to the top of most hills

It's interesting that lots of people think the 1kz is gutless. I bought mine after owning a 2.8 TD Rodeo, the 1kz was like a rocket ship in comparison. The Rodeo was like a rocket ship compared to my naturally aspirated 2.4 diesel Hilux. I guess it's all relative.

Cheers Andrew

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

was like a rocket ship in comparison. I guess it's all relative.

Cheers Andrew

Now, talking of your relatives and going off like a rocket................

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

If you don't take depreciation into account you haven't really crunched the numbers, if you are looking at the costs you have to look at them all. Depreciation a lot of the time can be the biggest expense in owning a vehicle.

I work on 1200km from a tank when towing, if I didn't have the roof rack and awning that would be a bit better. Obviously if I get into extended areas with soft sand or low range work I struggle to get 1200km.

Cheers Andrew

Again it depends on circumstance and use.

If you have a business that you write the vehicle off against - yes depreciation is an accountable amount.

I buy vehicles to use, not to get as much back as I can when I move onto something else.

When buying used, resale value is a very rubbery figure. As a punter, there is only cost in owning a motor car.

If you never sell it - its a fictitious amount.

The price you may get for any given vehicle at the time you decide to sell it, is impossible to predict. Its only going to be "worth" what someone is prepared to pay at the time. There are to many factors out of your control for it to be taken into account in any meaningful way. A new model may render older models worthless, or the opposite may occur. Sales people love to quote percentages to have you believe you will get most of what you paid back.

If you really want to save money on motor cars - don't buy one.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Again it depends on circumstance and use.

If you have a business that you write the vehicle off against - yes depreciation is an accountable amount.

I buy vehicles to use, not to get as much back as I can when I move onto something else.

When buying used, resale value is a very rubbery figure. As a punter, there is only cost in owning a motor car.

If you never sell it - its a fictitious amount.

The price you may get for any given vehicle at the time you decide to sell it, is impossible to predict. Its only going to be "worth" what someone is prepared to pay at the time. There are to many factors out of your control for it to be taken into account in any meaningful way. A new model may render older models worthless, or the opposite may occur. Sales people love to quote percentages to have you believe you will get most of what you paid back.

If you really want to save money on motor cars - don't buy one.

Sorry but half that doesn't make much sense and the rest sounds like excuses.

Fact is you are counting the devaluation difference at the start "My V6 cost ten grand less than a diesel equivalent" but you ignore it or put it in the too hard basket at the other end, sell time.

So as I said, if you are leaving out one of the major costs of owning a car, and one of the major cost differences between a Petrol and a Diesel then you haven't really crunched the numbers at all. What you have done is come up with a set of numbers to justify your purchase. That's easy, I can make any set of numbers add up any way I like if I leave out the bits that don't suit and make overly generous assumptions about the bits that do.

No doubt the sums for a Petrol add up for some people, in this case from the limited info we have to go on it may be the way to go. Only the OP has enough knowledge on intended use, amount of use, time frame, condition of vehicles he's looking at to make a decision.

I certainly wouldn't say that the Diesel will be the best and cheapest option for everyone............ just read my signature

Cheers Andrew

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

You may find it hard to find a super low KM model in the 120 1kz but I've seen them around the low 100,000kms. This isn't much at all on an engine like this. People will put them down power wise, but you don't buy them to win any races. They are reliable and good on fuel. Around town, with larger tyres + roof rack etc, I average 12.5L per 100km. That's with the wife driving, and I would easily knock another half liter off that if I was driving it. It's good when we load the family + camper + dog and go touring, though fuel usage is slight higher. I think the last time I checked consumption on a trip while loaded up we were ~13.7l per 100km. No, you won't maintain 110km/h when towing up hill. But what's wrong with getting up that hill at 90kmh? It's also unlikely in this engine that you'll be cruising at 100+km/h one minute, and then scraping your oil off the road from blown holes in pistons a few minutes later like has happened in the D4D. You may crack a head in the 1kz if you're trying to tow up hill at high revs in a head wind at 40+ degrees. But only a moron would do that...in my opinion...

Anyway, if you're after super low kms, the unfortunately for you, you will miss out on a great engine like the 1kz because you will find it near impossible to get one <100,000kms. You'll save big $$ too on this model, meaning you may have some left for accessories.

Good luck choosing the right car for you!

[prado2004 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close prado2004]

Agreed.

Depreciation is not something I ever take into consideration. I buy vehicles to use, not limit the amount of money I lose at sale time. I have always thought of this as a bit of a false economy..

I would think depreciation would be something everyone would factor into a car if buying new, would be common sense to take all factors into account?

I personally think anyone is mad buying a petrol new, simply because of the massive drop in re-sale. Dont get me wrong, they're a great motor and I would recommend them second hand (after someone else has already copped the massive hit in value).

[prado2004 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close prado2004]

You may find it hard to find a super low KM model in the 120 1kz but I've seen them around the low 100,000kms.

They're out there, I paid $19,500 for mine nearly 2 years ago and it only had 94,000kms on it. never looked back!

[gurtej176 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close gurtej176]

Hi all,

I am in a same situation. I have added another thread but will post on this as well.

Being completely new to 4WD and not so knowledgeable about cars, I thought I may be able to get some advice here from experts.

I previously owned a Lancer (1.5L) and new Mazda Cx-5 ( written off this week in an accident, my car was parked and not at fault). Even though I liked the car and the extra luxury items ( auto sensors, GPS, bluetooth), I was not a big fan of the engine as it was underpowered (FWD only and petrol) and the feel of the car was not really of SUV like majority of the cars in its category.

Now I am in the market for another car and still not decided what I want. The money I will get can get me a equaling Mazda CX5 but thinking about getting a real 4WD. This is what I actually know (got feedback from a prado owner about 4wd's or prado:

"Bulky and operate at full 4WD, so can be harder on tyres and fuel than say a 2WD or ‘all-wheel drive’ car."
"Key with diesels is service records. They MUST BE serviced regularly and on time, and Diesels need more regular maintenance than petrols, as oil changes are crucial to longevity"
"A well-kept diesel prado should do 500,000KLMS +, and I’d expect the transmission to go well before the engine"
"Avoid a car from the coast, as it will likely have been driven on sand, and after sand and 7 years you MAY start to see rust, or early signs of corrosion in the undercarriage, engine and suspension"
"To sleep at night, and have a good experience I think a prado is hard to beat"

Saying that, I personally want a real 4wd even though I don't drive too often but that may change once I have something that can go off road.
My yearly drive KM' is around 15K (mainly sydney city drive), we are 3 in a family (including an infant) but my parents stay with us for 3 months in a year so a big car will definitely help and we are also an extended family sometimes on the weekend...so a big car will definitely help

Budget range is stretch of 35K....
Can you please advise which series car I will be able to get - 120 or 150...
Should I go for petrol or diesel in my circumstances, I do around 15-18k a year, but a solid engine helps....
Whats the acceptable minimum K's I should aim for when getting a second hand...should I add the cost of injectors on top of the buying price ( around 2K?).
Dealer used or private ( are dealer warranties worth it?)

Any other advise is appreciated. Thanks