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On a budget. 120 series petrol vs 150 diesel. Help with making a choice please

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  • On a budget. 120 series petrol vs 150 diesel. Help with making a choice please

    Hi all

    I'm on a budget so looking to buy second hand. First 4x4 purchase.

    I have found a really nice 2009 GRJ120 GXL petrol which is within our budget. Only thing concerning me is the fuel consumption. Using it to go up the beach on the weekends. Other than that it will be used as a family car around town.

    I have been told that the 120 series petrol is virtually bullet proof (tough, reliable good car) but very thirsty.
    I was told to steer clear from any of the 120 diesels.
    I was recommended to go for a 2010 150 series diesel if I wanted diesel but they are around 50k to buy so I would be going over my budget but I am willing to overlook it. Trying to find one with low kms is proving hard though.

    Looking for some feedback on both models - pros and cons

    Cheers
    Gav

  • #2
    I think budget and it's flexibility is going to play a big part here. D4D variants will bring somewhat more than V6 ones. The issue with 120 and even some 150 D4D is the injectors, leading to what is sometimes a terminal issue resulting in a very very costly repair.

    Most 4wd more than a couple of years old are hard to find with really low km, with many people over recent years having moved from the Commodore/Falcon family car option to SUV/4WD. Many fleet owners (mining particularly) buying Diesel GX versions too.

    In 2008 when my Patrol got stolen (Petrol version - Super thirsty) I was faced with the same dilemma, petrol or Diesel replacement. It was just after the GFC hit, and fuel prices were sky high, Diesel being more exe than ULP by about 8-10cpl.
    In short, I figured that if I had a Diesel, I would use about 8-10L/100km, and if a Prado petrol, about 11-14L/100km depending if City or Hwy driving. I wasn't towing, rarely used it offroad and didn't do alot of km overall.

    In the end I determined that buying a Prado petrol would cost me little more if any over buying a diesel given that the diesel car would cost about $5-7k more, and with diesel being a little more costly at the pump, the added efficiency of diesel would be negated. I also considered that if diesel ended up cheaper than ULP by about the same margin (8-10cpl), I was only a few $ worse off each time I filled the tank, and it would mean for the $5-7k saving I made when buying a petrol, it would take a while, in fact probably the life of my ownership to dwindle away that saving in extra fuel cost/usage. Thats based on me doing about 10km per year, and of course the more km you intend to do, the more faster the saving of buying a V6 dwindles away.

    In the end, I was looking for a 120 V6, but ended up finding an unbeatable deal on a DiD (Diesel) Pajero that was 3 years newer, had 1/3 the km of the Prados I had looked at, and was still under warranty while saving me about $5k! Needless to say I took the Pajero. I kept that Pajero for bang on 5 years, and in that time I only put 23km on it.

    In April this year I advertised it with 53km on it, priced it above all others where the next lowest mileage for sale at the time was over 100km, most 150-200+km and someone bought it the day after I advertised it sight unseen. Simply because finding a 7yo 4wd with 53km on it was unheard of.

    When I replaced it, I was buying new, and wanted a Prado this time. Again I had the dilemma of V6 or D4D. The brand new cost of the V6 is actually more than the D4D at full retail when you factor the V6 is only now available in auto, and there are not many V6 for sale brand new compared to D4D.
    I would think you can squeeze a dealer to pay the same for either. I still don't do many km, but did plan to drive the new car a little more than the Pajero, and that driving would be highway out in rural areas, so I opted for economy and range buying the D4D over the V6.

    After all my babble, the long and short is ask yourself if you will be towing, and how much slow or low range offroading you plan to do, and how long do you think you may own it. If you won't tow, and will only occasionally drive it offroad, not more than say 15-20km all up driving per year then a V6 given the purchase price saving will see you able to cover quite a few km before you eat up that saving over buying the D4D. It will also save the risk of the older D4D injector issues and terminal detonation.

    Hope that is some food for thought.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gavin and Amy View Post
      I was told to steer clear from any of the 120 diesels.
      I was recommended to go for a 2010 150 series diesel if I wanted diesel but they are around 50k to buy so I would be going over my budget but I am willing to overlook it. Trying to find one with low kms is proving hard though.
      Cant say that I would agree with that advice. There are 2 Diesel variants in the 120. Up until early 2006 was the older 1kz motor which is as good and reliable as most diesel engines, the odd cracked head at high Km's but other than that pretty solid.

      After that came the 1KD or D4D, it really has one issue and that's injectors which can cause expensive repairs if not caught early. However to say that you should steer clear of this and go the 150 isn't great advice, yes some of the issues have been rectified but the 150 is still prone to injectors failing and possible expensive bills. The fact that the 150 is newer than the 120 these issues haven't shown up as much.

      If you look at the D4D diesel in a 120 I would just factor in the cost of a new set of injectors, check out Baileys Diesel Group here or google them as they will give you the best/ best value and best advice on any issues.

      Outbackswine has covered pretty much everything you need to think about petrol V Diesel, the only things that I would add are that the extra cost buying a diesel is mitigated by the higher sale price when selling somewhat. Also having just swapped from a diesel Ute to a V6 Ute (not a Toyota unfortunately) it hurts everytime I go to fill up, that's a mental thing but it still hurts every week or 2.

      Cheers Andrew
      [COLOR="#FF0000"]So Long and Thanks for all the Fish![/COLOR]

      [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3840-AJ-s-120-Prado]MY PRADO AND DIY CAMPER TRAILER[/url]

      [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3975-AJ-s-79-series-Cruiser-Ute]MY HZJ79 Landcrusier[/url]


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      Comment


      • #4
        I will tell you straight up if you're considering a diesel because you want to save money - you won't.

        I crunched the numbers over and over when I was buying and could not get the maths to work out that way.

        Fuel costs are about the same. Servicing is more for a diesel than a petrol. Throw in a set of injectors for the diesel and you're well and truly busted.

        Buying used throws some big numbers into the mix. Diesels hold their used value better than petrol. Comparatively, a petrol 120 can be as much as $20k cheaper than an equivalent diesel. Thats a lot of petrol and accessories, etc.

        In my case it actually worked out cheaper to buy a V6.

        Theres a host of reasons why you might consider a diesel over a petrol (such as a lot of towing) but saving money isn't one of them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Beach View Post
          I will tell you straight up if you're considering a diesel because you want to save money - you won't.
          Everyone's circumstances are different, financially I am so far in front from owning a Diesel its not funny, but I am sure my circumstances are different to yours.

          Cheers Andrew
          [COLOR="#FF0000"]So Long and Thanks for all the Fish![/COLOR]

          [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3840-AJ-s-120-Prado]MY PRADO AND DIY CAMPER TRAILER[/url]

          [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3975-AJ-s-79-series-Cruiser-Ute]MY HZJ79 Landcrusier[/url]


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          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
            Everyone's circumstances are different, financially I am so far in front from owning a Diesel its not funny, but I am sure my circumstances are different to yours.

            Cheers Andrew
            My statement is based on the running costs of the vehicles. Including the purchase price.

            How far in front are you?

            I would to see some figures and calculations. As I said, the numbers tell the story.

            Comment


            • #7
              I purchased new, cost new is similar or the same.

              Rego cause its a 4 cyl is cheaper in SA.

              Mine being a diesel won't have depreciated nearly as much as a Petrol.

              I tow most of the time, my fuel usage is significantly less than it would be with a petrol.

              I drive remote a lot, the superior touring range means I more often than not can make it to larger centers with cheaper fuel before filling up, the price difference between a station and a town can be a dollars litre sometimes.

              For many years I had access to diesel at a significantly discounted price compared to the bowser.

              I haven't had to fork out for expensive repairs after my V6 engine mount collapsed into the chassis!

              In 9 years with 2 diesel Prado's I would comfortably say I am 20 grand in front.

              Cheers Andrew
              [COLOR="#FF0000"]So Long and Thanks for all the Fish![/COLOR]

              [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3840-AJ-s-120-Prado]MY PRADO AND DIY CAMPER TRAILER[/url]

              [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3975-AJ-s-79-series-Cruiser-Ute]MY HZJ79 Landcrusier[/url]


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              Comment


              • #8
                So in summary -

                Buy a new deisel or a second hand petrol
                Greg - 08 D4D Prado,
                Some trips done - Cape York, Fraser Island, Simpson Desert / Central Aust, Vic High Country.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  I purchased new, cost new is similar or the same.
                  Agreed.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  Rego cause its a 4 cyl is cheaper in SA.
                  Your home state can make a difference.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  Mine being a diesel won't have depreciated nearly as much as a Petrol.
                  Depreciation is not something I ever take into consideration. I buy vehicles to use, not limit the amount of money I lose at sale time. I have always thought of this as a bit of a false economy.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  I tow most of the time, my fuel usage is significantly less than it would be with a petrol.
                  This is a big mitigating factor and well worth taking into consideration.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  I drive remote a lot, the superior touring range means I more often than not can make it to larger centers with cheaper fuel before filling up, the price difference between a station and a town can be a dollars litre sometimes.
                  I'm curious to know how many k's you get from full to empty, assuming 180 litres? So far I am getting around 950kms from a fill. Town driving only at the moment. Remote driving also speaks to intended/predominate use, along with towing.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  For many years I had access to diesel at a significantly discounted price compared to the bowser.
                  Thats a big exception and pretty much outside the scope of this discussion. Most of us mere mortals don't have a farm to buy tax free fuel.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  I haven't had to fork out for expensive repairs after my V6 engine mount collapsed into the chassis!
                  I have already forked out $1800 for this repair. I'm still in front as my vehicle was $10k cheaper than the nearest diesel at the time of purchase. But of coure this is comparable to the dreaded D4D detonation and theres still the cost of a set of injectors if you keep a diesel long enough.

                  Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                  In 9 years with 2 diesel Prado's I would comfortably say I am 20 grand in front.
                  I would say you're right, but your complete set of circumstances would apply to very few.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Corigator View Post
                    So in summary -

                    Buy a new deisel or a second hand petrol
                    I think the Petrol argument is stronger second hand as the big devaluation has already happened. But everyone has a unique set of circumstances and the numbers will be different for different people.

                    Cheers Andrew
                    [COLOR="#FF0000"]So Long and Thanks for all the Fish![/COLOR]

                    [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3840-AJ-s-120-Prado]MY PRADO AND DIY CAMPER TRAILER[/url]

                    [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3975-AJ-s-79-series-Cruiser-Ute]MY HZJ79 Landcrusier[/url]


                    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Buy a diesel 120 (d4d) if its in your budget, you will love the amount of low down torque it has. Especially if you do any towing. It pulls like a 12 year old!

                      But add a couple of grand into the purchase cost to replace the injectors whether they need it or not, change them out for peace of mind. You won't be disappointed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Appreciate all of the feedback. The 09 petrol 120 series I am looking at is the very last of the old shape. It's a GXL with less than 20,000kms on the clock. Price is $40,000 though.. a 2010 150 diesel GXL would cost me around $10,000 more than that with around 80,000kms on the clock. I do realise the 120 is relatively expensive but with the low kms and condition of the car it's like brand new and I haven't seen another in the same condition anywhere. I would really be stretching the budget if I went for the diesel but the thought of filling the v6 is pretty scary.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When we look at used D4D Vs V6 cost, whilst Beach may have saved $10k buying the V6 (New the D4D is actually cheaper), much of that will be returned to the D4D owner once the vehicle is on-sold.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by outbackswine View Post
                            When we look at used D4D Vs V6 cost, whilst Beach may have saved $10k buying the V6 (New the D4D is actually cheaper), much of that will be returned to the D4D owner once the vehicle is on-sold.
                            As we have said, intended use plays a big part. If you're going to be loaded up and towing a lot of all of the time, (such as AJ120) the petrol will drink like a fish, so yes the diesel is definitely worth considering.

                            Having said that I would strongly encourage anyone in this position to sit down and crunch the numbers before you throw your hard earned at anything. Five years is a good term to work with. I got quite a shock. Thats why I ended up with a petrol as a diesel will not "save" me any cash.

                            At the same time a colleague was seriously considering chopping in his petrol 90 for a diesel 120 or even a 150. He uses his for towing a boat or camper and heading off as a family of four. No matter how we crunched the numbers, he was better off staying with his current vehicle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gavin and Amy View Post
                              Hi all

                              I'm on a budget so looking to buy second hand. First 4x4 purchase.


                              Looking for some feedback on both models - pros and cons

                              Cheers
                              Gav
                              Gav,

                              Not sure you'll learn much more by asking on here. The trouble with internet forums is you only get the extreme point of view for each side of the argument, both of which you should technically ignore under normal circumstances. The reason being is bias. It's basically what the judging panel would do if giving scores 1 to 10 that are subjective, you drop the top and bottom score and average the rest, thus removing the bias. What you're going to get here is just the top and bottom score and not the average.

                              So you'll get a tonne of posts stating blindly that each forum members choice is the only choice, and that their experiences are one in the same for everyone. Trouble is they are all opposing one another and you get conflicted information. How are you meant to learn anything from that?

                              Given the 120 and 150 are the SAME car just with difference bodies, the argument one is better than the other is just plain stupid. They are the same to drive, but the difference in body means difference feature set which may or may not attract you to one over the other.
                              Symo
                              Advanced Member
                              Last edited by Symo; 21-07-2014, 08:30 AM.
                              [CENTER][B]-=2014 GXL D4D Auto Graphite, Firestone Airbags, ARB/Optima D34 Dual Battery, ARB UVP, TJM Airtech Snorkel[/B][B]=-[/B]
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