taking a long time to start

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

I cannot figure this one out
The engine is taking ages to start
I've replaced the batteries, the engine is turning over quickly, but just takes ages to kick in
The glow plugs have been tested and a compression test done on the engine

these are all fine, but still it takes ages to start (in the region of 20 turn overs)

Any ideas what to do next?

[OziOffroad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close OziOffroad]

Engine cold, hot or all the time?
How many K's are on it?
Any recent work (injectors/fuel system?)
Fuel filters done?
Any fault codes?

Mick

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

happens when both cold and hot
218,000 KM on clock (Serviced every 3k)
No recent work on Injectors/Fuel)
Fuel filters replaced
No Engine light on dash

[OziOffroad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close OziOffroad]

Has this been since the fuel filter was done? if so - check everything is secure/no leaks (air in)

When were the injectors done?

Runs OK? Fuel usage OK?

You need to check for fault codes, the dash light only comes on if there is a issue with a critical sensor or you're in limp mode. Intermittent faults and out of spec sensors etc etc fault codes are stored and can be read via the dash light once you jump the necessary pins on the DLC connector. Do you have any sort of workshop manual?

Mick

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

Thanks Mick
Its been doing it for the past 20k but has been getting much worse recently

As far as I know, the Injectors have not been touched, but it does run great and good fuel consumption
I will need to check about fuel filter, but assume this is part of service but cant get hold of the garage right now

I don't have a manual, But i do know where diagnostic port is in the engine bay
I presume you jump 2 pins and read some flashing lights on dash?

[OziOffroad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close OziOffroad]

Yeah that's correct, I don't have the info on this PC to give you the pin numbers tonight.

It's a good place to start so is checking the filter and lines are secure. (and the filter was changed at service time)

Your injectors are probably well past their best too.

Mick

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

Thanks Mick

Yes a good plan about checking for fault codes, will give that a go as soon as you have told me which ones to try

Should i get the injectors serviced?
Fuel here is kenya is pretty bad, hence the need to get it serviced so often

[Ivanprado90 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ivanprado90]

Hey ,Please if you could also send me those pins information i would appreciate it tons

since my slow crancking problem seems to be similar like m.r davies's i though i would comment here ..

Only diference between mine and yours is i dont need so many cranks (20 like in your case) to start my engine.

So i will resume all the diagnosis of my engine so far:

1-Compression test on all 4 cylinders = all 4 gave above 3,000 KPA'S . engine is not new there is some air coming up from the oil cap when you take it off but not so many.
2-No oil consumption , no coolant consumption, no abnormal diesel comsumption.
3-No engine weird sound or knocking. it is actually very quiet and normal.
4-Took out injectors, they were pretty much fine, cleaned them and calibrated them.
5-Took out the starter, gave it a nice clean and changed contactors. after that the started even has a better sound.
6-I do have noticed abit of power loss, also when in high speed 120-130km/h i noticed the engine is very noisy and sounds like it was running at it's max point capacity.
7-Turbo is good
8-Batteries are good, i even have 2 High AMP batteries connected in series to the starter so right now the engine is receiving more than 1000amp for startup
9-No smoke coming out of the engine when running, even though i get some grey smoke when starting it up.
10-Recently changed fuel filter and checked fuel lines for leaks and air. changed fuel primer pump <--- i need to check the fuel filter again not very sure about it i have read that some times if the O-ring in the filter is not well placed you can have problems with pressure.
11-We use good quality fuel here and i also use some extra additive .
12-checked all fusibles , all good.
13-Problem is the same regardless if the engine is hot or cold, it is even hard to start when it is hot than cold.
14-Glow plugs are good


Things that i have not checked yet so far:
-Coolant and temp sensors
-Injection pump = check for pump pressure , spill valve etc.
-check for fault codes

There was some random mechanic who gave me a crazy diagnosis which i didnt trust. well he says that they might be some piston rings messed up. but how can that be possible? if compression test gave decent numbers and i dont have oil , coolant neither diesel consume ....

[OziOffroad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close OziOffroad]

13-Problem is the same regardless if the engine is hot or cold, it is even hard to start when it is hot than cold.

Thought yours was a hot start problem?

As you are both not in Australia: for both of you I will need to know the DLC location (under bonnet/under dash) and pin count (ie; 16 pin/22 pin)

Have you opened any fuel lines at start up and check for fuel?

Is there vacuum in the fuel tank when you remove the cap?

If you prime it up does it start up ok?

If you had a piston ring issue I'd imagine you'd have other indications which you've said you don't. I'd still be looking at fuel supply as the primary culprit.

Mick

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

Thanks Mick
as the saying goes "a picture says a thousand words" ... maybe this video says even more!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JteNSjbc5Es

There was no noticeable HISS when removing fuel cap (that I could tell)

I'm not sure if I pumping the throttle 3 times was "priming" if not, let me know what to try
But It did seem to start much quicker with three pumps.... I'll need to do more of these Priming tests to see if it does consistently make a difference

> Have you opened any fuel lines at start up and check for fuel?
No, I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, are you asking to disconnect the fuel lines and start the engine?

Let me know if you want more info or another video, there are really easy to upload on the mobile phone
What should i try next?

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

Hey ,Please if you could also send me those pins information i would appreciate it tons

since my slow crancking problem seems to be similar like m.r davies's i though i would comment here ..

Only diference between mine and yours is i dont need so many cranks (20 like in your case) to start my engine.

So i will resume all the diagnosis of my engine so far:

1-Compression test on all 4 cylinders = all 4 gave above 3,000 KPA'S . engine is not new there is some air coming up from the oil cap when you take it off but not so many.
2-No oil consumption , no coolant consumption, no abnormal diesel comsumption.
3-No engine weird sound or knocking. it is actually very quiet and normal.
4-Took out injectors, they were pretty much fine, cleaned them and calibrated them.
5-Took out the starter, gave it a nice clean and changed contactors. after that the started even has a better sound.
6-I do have noticed abit of power loss, also when in high speed 120-130km/h i noticed the engine is very noisy and sounds like it was running at it's max point capacity.
7-Turbo is good
8-Batteries are good, i even have 2 High AMP batteries connected in series to the starter so right now the engine is receiving more than 1000amp for startup
9-No smoke coming out of the engine when running, even though i get some grey smoke when starting it up.
10-Recently changed fuel filter and checked fuel lines for leaks and air. changed fuel primer pump <--- i need to check the fuel filter again not very sure about it i have read that some times if the O-ring in the filter is not well placed you can have problems with pressure.
11-We use good quality fuel here and i also use some extra additive .
12-checked all fusibles , all good.
13-Problem is the same regardless if the engine is hot or cold, it is even hard to start when it is hot than cold.
14-Glow plugs are good


Things that i have not checked yet so far:
-Coolant and temp sensors
-Injection pump = check for pump pressure , spill valve etc.
-check for fault codes

There was some random mechanic who gave me a crazy diagnosis which i didnt trust. well he says that they might be some piston rings messed up. but how can that be possible? if compression test gave decent numbers and i dont have oil , coolant neither diesel consume ....

One mech told me I need an engine rebuild... it would cost me in the region of half the value of the car!

[Ivanprado90 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ivanprado90]

So guess what, today the prado has been starting right away, fast and normal crancking. funnny thing is havent done anything to it, today. I did use one bottle of aditive when i filled the tank yesterday, so its obvious something is going on with fuel + air. Hey btw sometimes when i have opened the fuel cap i have heard the "Hiss" sound of air released, is that a bad thing? i thought that was something normal since i know fuel releases CO2

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

The hiss is good
It means the system is sealed and no air coming in

Mine, is not hissing, but will test when empty

[znelbok Member Find all posts View Profile Close znelbok]

My Hilux can be hard to start (not an instant start, but turns over twice instead - a noticeable difference) when the fuel level in the tank gets low. The Tractor shows similar starting issues when sitting for a couple of weeks (turns over two or three times - worse in cold as it has no glo plugs)

I surmise that it is due to the head in the tank being low enough to allow some drain back from the pump. When I put more fuel in its all good.
Maybe you are getting some drain back and the pump is re-priming the system.

If that is the case f or you thenyou should be able to turn it off and start instantly as there will not be any time to drain. I know you said it was harder when hot, but the engine can be hot an hour after being driven.

It does sound like a fuel issue though. I am no mechanic, just and engineer, but I would be looking at the fuel pump and/or fuel system (low pressure side).

Your indication of an engine running flat out might be a partially blocked line (not enough fuel?)

Give all your fuel lines a really good clean and see if you can find a pin hole leak.

Good luck

Mick

[m.r.davies Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m.r.davies]

Ok just did another video of the quick on / off to test it

The car has been sitting for about 1 hour after last use
I did not touch the accelerator, and it cranked for ages... then it felt like it caught, but didn't quite, then cranked some more, then did the same again and sounded as if it was about to start but didn't, and then it eventually caught
.... i didn't get this on film, but here is what happened directly afterwards with the quick on/ off tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luk_e4dVryw


(also, I didn't say it was harder when hot)