My D4D died

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Got to ask , just how common is this problem and is it at certain mileage etc ...............

How common is a hard one to answer.
Dealerships see multiple vehicles a week with injector issues.
It seems it is becoming more common as they get more Klm's.
You really have to watch it.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday Danda

Got to ask , just how common is this problem and is it at certain mileage etc ...............

To answer that quite simply!!! "Not that common!!" ...... "Seriously"!!...

There is a failure rate but minute compared to the saturation of units that are actually out there and there is enough information out there (On this forum) to spot early warning signs and simple checks to reduce being caught-out the same as any other car out there!

As far as what mileage?... Well... Its a bit like when a car goes in for lube & safety check!... You always do a light check/ Check all fluid levels and check brakes! (At glance).

As far as the common rail diesel goes it is good Practice/ Precaution to check oil-pickup when you drop your engine oil! ... Its that simple!

As far as injector reliability goes there is crap loads of D4D's still running around on "None DLC injectors" ... That's a failure right there waiting to happen!

WHY!...

To put it simply is the fact you have to ask your self a couple of "Simple" Questions first!!

#1 - How many units of the D4D's is there out there including the 3ltr Hilux (Not including 2kd's)?

SIDE NOTE: In Australia alone in 2013 (Not any other country) 14,568 Prado's was sold (I'm guessing more than 50% of them diesel) and that's not including 39,931 Hulux was also sold here in OZ the same year! (Not sure how many of then was diesel either).

Click on link below!

Record 1.14 million car sales for 2013

Now imagine how many world-wide was sold since 2007 despite the fact that the (D-4D) 1KD-FTV was introduced in the year 2000 over seas!

Click link below!

Toyota Land Cruiser Prado

#2 - "The biggie"... How many of them are running chips and not admitting it?... Whooo ---- that's a tense question!.... lol

#3 - how many of them are being serviced properly according to the work environment they are exposed to?

Answer all of those simple questions above #1-#2-#3 and it doesn't take too long to work out that the fail rate is actually quite small in comparison to volume units of the (D-4D) 1KD-FTV that are actually out there!

Cheers

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

It might be a small failure rate when you put it like that, but compared to other models (petrol or 1kz) I'd say more D4Ds go *bang* than any other model. I've talked to more people that have had probs with the D4D (hilux included) than most other cars. They remind me of the Patrol diesel that had problems. I think if you have a D4D, you should definitely take the warnings seriously.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Sky walker as usual you make many good points. That injectors can fail without symptoms is to me a major issue. My 120 displayed none of the known tell tale signs. I had no chip (don't believe in piggyback chips) and I was more diligent with fuel filtration than Toyota require. I didn't use cheap no name fuel either. Add to that the fact that Toyota do not at any time do a routine feedback check to look at the health of the injectors and the D4D injectors, at least the early ones, are a problem. I accept, probably better than most, that injectors are a consumable but I expect some warning that I need to act, either from the engine or the service agents. I found out mine were dodgy because I insisted on the dealer doing it.

The seat issue is another thing all together. If the dealers had been doing the 40,000km (80,000 etc) properly then this would never have caused a single failure. Toyota may not accept that the original seats are deficient but the coating of the seats after 2010 ish indicates that a better option was needed. Again the simple expedient of inspecting the sump screen each oil change would be sufficient preventative maintenance. My dealer doesn't have the ability to do that so I bought an inspection camera and supply this at the service.

At the end of the day if you have a D4D be diligent and do a couple of things:

Change fuel filters at least as often as Toyota require. I change one or other of the engine bay and between tank filters every service.
If you are touring give serious thought to fitting additional filtration / water separation.
Fit a catch can and keep an eye on what turns up inside.
Get the mechanic / dealer look at the sump screen when the oil is dropped, if there are signs of build up clean the screen and flush the oil system and fix the cause!
Make sure the valve clearance checks are done properly every 40,000km which means the injectors come out and while the dealer or service agent has the car overnight check the injector feedback and total volumes. Change the injectors as a set when any are close to the limit.

All this increases the cost of services but should mean no nasty loud wallet crippling surprises.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday iantz

compared to other models (petrol or 1kz) I'd say more D4Ds go *bang* than any other model.

haha!! ..ok! lets put that comment to the test! (I'm only being cheeky on a funny note so nothing to hart

Obviously the petrol "ARE" reliable in one hand but damn expensive in fuel if towing which im sure covers the diesel for injectors over time by the time you have paid for your petrol! Lol (If you tow allot!).

Now lets have a quick squiz at that KZ!... It don't go bang but it does go Ssssssss! ... Better known as a blown head gsk or more predictably known as "Cracked cylinder head!! (There is 3k worth of damage right there!).

How much does it cost to Repair/Replace a cracked head on an underpowered/ thirsty 1KZ? ..... (Thirsty as in power Vs fuel consumption).

I'm having a serious case of tongue in cheek as i think it's funny to compare chalk with cheese!

But seriously for a second!... You say the 1KZ is more reliable!... But you would have to keep it stock standard as to not crack the head!... If so it is heavily under powered by comparison to the stock standard D4D!

But hang on a minute!... Lets buy a chip and upgrade the exhaust & you will still fall behind the D4D in fuel and power & have just reduced the life span of the KZ by introducing more heat & parting with about 2k in upgrades??? (Probably more!).... Lol (Especially if the head cracks you would have to put the extra 3k on top of ya 2k!

Wouldn't that 2K for upgrades on the KZ Plus possibly an extra 3k for head rebuild cover your injectors on the D4D? .... After all the injectors are a moving part that wears!

Ok i'd better pull my neck in and calm down!

You can read "HEAPS" of threads on this forum on cracked cylinder heads on the KZ and how under-powered it is!.... Allot more than "BANG!!" - there goes the D4D!

The D4D engine is moving forward for the better and the KZ is not!

EG: I have 2 x engines!.. Both are 4 x cylinders, Both are diesel, Both have a turbo, and both have the same cubic capacity!..... One gives more power, Better fuel consumption and cleaner burning.... For this example i will choose the 1KZ Vs 1KD.

The 1KD engine produces more power with less fuel consumption and cleaner emissions than its predecessor, the 1KZ.

1KD-FTV 3.0 L (2982cc), 4 cyl Turbo Diesel (D-4D] 127 kW (173 PS; 170 hp) and 410 N·m (300 lb·ft) of torque.

1KZ-TE 3.0 L (2982cc), 4 cyl Turbo diesel engine 97 kW (131 PS; 130 hp) and 287 N·m (211 lb·ft) of torque.

What you spend trying to make the KZ faster is better spent on a D4D with more power and better fuel consumption as well as cleaner burning!

Cheers

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

The 1KZ was never a powerhouse. You shouldn't buy one if you want power. Stock is where I'm at and where I'll stay. And I would suspect the cracked heads are often caused by chipping etc and over working it (like I said, it's not a powerhouse). Flogging them uphill while towing on a hot day is a recipe for disaster too! Same as you, just having a dig

Out of curiosity, are there no cases of D4Ds having repeat issues after the injector change?

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

A colleague had a 120 D4D. He was always a little disappointed in it, describing it as "a bit of a truck". Then the engine went bang.

(He was on a job, way out west and had to continue. So the Prado spent two weeks touring on a tilt tray. The owner couldn't stop grinning).

$24,000 later and it was a joy to drive. Suddenly he really liked it and couldn't believe it was the same vehicle.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday iantz

Out of curiosity, are there no cases of D4Ds having repeat issues after the injector change?

Oooooh!... That's a toughie!!..???

That's like asking how long is a piece of string? .... Or more to the point!.. how long do ya want it? .. Lol

#1 Was the old injectors replaced with "DLC" Injectors

#2 bodgies from eBay? ...

#3 Was the job done properly in the first place?

Mine has now done over 176,000km and the oil-pick-up is still clear and when i changed my injectors the old type seating washers (Heat shield) hadn't even breached!

Its the same as before! ... You have to compare stats against the numbers and the stats against the numbers are very low by comparison!.... Like very low!

Obviously there will always be a fail rate with anything that is mass production with any car manufacturer out there but statistically speaking the D4D's actually fair very well compared to others out there.

There is Pages & pages & pages of gloom and doom about the D4D on this forum but count the actual engines that went "Bang" & subtract the fibbers etc (only a small few) and compare to how many units that are actually out there and its quite a small number!

Obviously Toyota would never admit if there was a issue as it would mean fix one fix all!... Who does that these days when it could cost millions?

Case by case scenario applies obviously based on loyalty (Stick to/pay the dealership for all work! ... Yeah righto!... Not!... Lol.

You know when its bad when there "is" a recall and/or the fail rate is filthy high!

The numbers clearly show it's not as bigger problem as some will ham-it-up to be or have you to believe.

As you know!... If some guys can point the finger as "A BIG" issue then there ass is protected as far aftermarket guys with there products are concerned.

How many times as the frase (Its a known problem and not our product!).... Mmmmmm?... That sucks?

I find it interesting that car manufacturers "And" car insurance company's now state that if you put performance products on the engine that manipulate its original manufactured design then you will void engine warranty and the insurance company also on engine cover!

Then on top of that because of some of the over-hyped gloom & doom on the D4D (When stat's show otherwise) people could possibly have there 60-70-$80k rig with no cover?

People pay extra for extended car warranty (Peace of mind apparently) then pay extra for full comprehensive car insurance to only fined out that they can easily jeopardise all the above for more power???....

So whats with all the other "Piece of mind" stuff when they know they can jeopardise it for extra power????

Where is the sense in that?? ... Not forgetting that un-trustworthy workshops can milk crap loads of extra money out of them based on hyped-up speculation!

I know i have slid off topic a tad but it is relevant to "some" (Not all) of those guys out there that the engines went "Bang"!

Cheers

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Gday iantz

...how long is a piece of string? ....

Twice the distance from the middle to the end.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Gday iantz
...how long is a piece of string?

Twice the distance from the middle to the end.

And if you support it at each end and let it hang freely its shape will be the common catenary!

I would suspect that people who have had the issue are:

More diligent because they don't want to go there again

Sold it and bought a Prado with sparking plugs (heaven forbid)

Or sold it and bought something with a bullet proof engine like a common rail Nissan...

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

And if you support it at each end and let it hang freely its shape will be the common catenary!

The graph of the hyperbolic cosine function?

Sold it and bought a Prado with sparking plugs (heaven forbid)

I bought a sparking (sparkling?) plug model after seeing two people go through the big bang and big bill process of the D4D. Also the ongoing fiscal impact is largely more desirable.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

'Twas a joke. I don't sniff petrol so it's diesel for me and a catenary is a catenary. And the cosh graph...

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

It all that was true they would still be using the same old seals and, as Skywalkerun says, only have to deal with a very few failures. But they didn't, they completely changed the composition of the seal.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Toyota did a recall OS for the seal issue...

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Exactly. And you don't get a recall unless they consider it serious enough to warrant.