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  • Grande "ARB" RESTRICTIONS??

    Peeps I need some help bigtime...
    I brought a 2009 120 Grande a week ago. Had a Land Cruiser a few years back and really loved it - and have now decided to explore and do my photography in the bush.
    Wanted to Grande (didn't need the size of the Land Cruiser), got a clean, never been "off road" standard vehicle ex brissie, ready for me to trick-up the way I/we wanted it.
    I was absolutely stoked with the buy and the vehicle - UNTIL TODAY!

    So here are (were) my plans:
    Up front - Ironman or ARB steel bar inc. 9500lb winch with fibre rope - and standard steel plates under for protection.
    Set of lights.
    In the rear - a set of two draws plus a water storage tank
    Cargo screen
    On top I have the Toyota rails and will fit an ARB/Ironman roof rack to carry my stuff.
    Plus a side and rear Awning - Also will add a roof top tent.

    So I got some prices ex Ironman and ARB then went to ARB to discuss a few things today only to be told that they WILL NOT TOUCH a Grande and I cannot fit the bits I want too without seriously compromising my suspension!!!.
    After a discussion the ARB guy (who seemed really knowledgeable and was very supportive I might add) who rang a two guys to see if there was something they could do to the front end/suspension to take the weight and not compromise the air suspension. Both said NO WAY!
    So after one week of owning my dream Grande I walked from ARB very dejected - and read to now sell it and get a GLX or something??

    Forum info...
    I have seen and read how some fellas have altered Grandes - is that "illegal"/noncomplying (using the ARB description) or is there a way to get them complying and reliable.
    I do not want to do "Bush Bashing" 2" lifts etc. radical 4X4ing. I simply want a vehicle to enjoy, be reliable have some gear on it so I can take to the road whenever I wish, wherever the road goes!
    Is this too much to ask for a Grande!

    I would REALLY appreciate some feedback and support here fellas

    A sad little 4x4 newby
    regards
    Larry Dawson
    YMUS
    "[B]The PEARL[/B]" is our early 2009 120 "Pearl White"Grande . [B]The build consists of[/B]: ARB deluxe Bar, Winch is a Domin8tor, Driving lights are 3X Korr LED's. Roof Rack is a RR 42107B. - Rear Draws are from OffRoad Systems 3 draw plus fridge slide, table and 40ltr S.S. tank. See our build site : [URL]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?32140-Start-of-quot-The-Pearl-quot-transformation-April-2014[/URL]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  • #2
    Try another ARB dealer
    [url=http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=12264]My Prado[/url]

    Comment


    • #3
      The ARB guys you spoke to have no idea what they are on about. Everything about the Grande is the same except for the rear coils which are not needed as the Grande has airbags.

      If ARB don't want your money, plenty of others will take it. Plenty of Grande owners have lifted their Prados without issue. I would suggest going for Kings standard springs if you do not want a lift. They are designed to give about 20mm lift on a standard Prado. So with the steel bar and winch, it will be back to normal height. If you're not doing radical bushbashing, I would leave out the winch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Also try another organization. TJM or Opposite lock?

        SOL.
        [COLOR="#006400"][url]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?26339-SOL-s-150-shorty-SX[/url][/COLOR]

        [COLOR="#00FF00"]4wdriving[/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000FF"]First Party[/COLOR] - [COLOR="#FF0000"]Bitumen: A Blatant Waste of Taxpayers Money![/COLOR]

        Comment


        • #5
          Mate

          This is discussed in other threads. I should have mentioned ARB won't do it. They have their own valid reasons, but that doesn't mean it illegal or anything. They play safe which is admirable. There are plenty of us that have done the change and love it. Save your ARB money for other ARB things. Now, Craigm from QLD will be able to point you in a direction or two I suspect. Hopefully they are all helpful. Total Traction Tyres in SA do it. Autocraft in Vic do it, other reputable groups nationally also do it. I think ?4x4 Suspension? do it.

          Take a deep breath, wait patiently and I promise a few of the more "refined Grande owners" will get you to a safehouse on this one
          [B][COLOR=blue]Bitumen: A blatant waste of taxpayers money![/COLOR][/B]
          [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12197&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=d"]My rig buildup[/URL] [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/album.php?albumid=141"]Mundaring Power Lines Jan 01[/URL] [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuQmi3Tgoe0&feature=feedu=d"]You Tube Video Morgan Quarry[/URL]

          Comment


          • #6
            As mlc and the others have said, shop around. Send craigm a pm and give TJM a look. TJM Brendale is a fair drive for you but the people there are excellent.
            My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

            Comment


            • #7
              YMUS..there are lots of Grandes that are modified out of standard and I dare say loads more that are not members. I see loads round me! I don't have any of the original suspension anymore but like the above have said some of the experienced members that spring to mind are Amts, Craigm, mlc and 1Coolbanana! Kudos for you for having a budget, understanding your intentions and not wanting to go too 'left field! Lots of people also swear by the oem TEMS suspension . All I can say is the 'grande' is a great vehicle with all it's gizmos but a few do get scared by the air self levelling suspension?? Take advice from the above members and read their rig builds! ARB are just the tip of the iceberg......
              [SIZE=1]03 TD 120 Grande, L&R weathershields, f&r deflectors, Sov bar Amts rad b.pl, TJM front B.P, Uniden UH7760NB Kaymar LED worklight, ARB 47l, lifestyle rack & Milford C. Barrier, 9500llb Superwinch, IPF 900SR spots, T. Dog 40mm adj shocks/struts, coils, airbagman OA6011 airbags, 2.75" Beaudesert exhaust, 300w inverter, 1L Catch can,outback rec points, R.R awning, dual batteries redarc SBI12 Cooper LT A/T3's 265/65, Safari snorkel, Hilux jets, Brains TG150, Leigh's booster diode [/SIZE]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by macaroon1 View Post
                there are lots of Grandes that are modified out of standard and I dare say loads more that are not members.
                I'm guessing that the manufacturers have seen the legality's when a car has been involved in an accident!

                "Basically" ... if you overload your vehicle past the manufactures designed weight limits then i'm guessing that the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) & KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System) tends to go a bit spastic and the car is more incapable of stabilising the anti role affect!

                At the end of the day who do you point the finger at if something goes badly wrong??

                #1 - The car manufacturer?

                #2 - The aftermarket guys?... Or!!!

                #3 - The guy that fitted the access weight to the vehicle?


                Legality's on paper speak volumes at the end of the day!

                Insurance companies/ car manufacturers and aftermarket guys have obviously twigged onto this!

                "The BIG Question is".... has Joe-blogs twigged onto this??

                Cheers

                Comment


                • #9
                  I remember sitting in an ARB ( Morphet Vale SA) listening to a very similar spiel.. MR ARB telling a grande owner how they CANNOT be modified or lifted..
                  After his Ten minutes of shit talk, I piped up and said, you know that's a Grande I drove in, with lift... Sent his lost customer down the road to the guys hat could do the work for him..

                  As for legal. I have had my vehicle complianced with the lift, bigger tyres and brakes.. I'm sure mine is more legal than 95% of the lifted 4wd on the road.. And it's been over the pits to prove it..
                  It's also insured with the lift and accessories..

                  Plenty of places that will help you out.. You know where not to ever spend money..

                  Might be worth talking to Sam ( ARB) on the forum about some store feedback.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Piggy View Post
                    As for legal. I have had my vehicle complianced with the lift, bigger tyres and brakes.. I'm sure mine is more legal than 95% of the lifted 4wd on the road.. And it's been over the pits to prove it..
                    This is true!

                    But i am also guessing that if you hand not of put your rig over the pits and got it certified then you would have been exposed from a legal point of view if an accident had of happened or the boys in blue did a road side check against your compliance plate!

                    EG: bigger wheels forced you to up-grade your brakes/ Re-calibrate your speed odometer and have it pass the moose test!

                    If this had not been carried out then maybe the after-market guy or joe-blogs would have been screwed if in an accident without the compliance plate to say otherwise!

                    I guess this is why Mr ARB was feeling nervy and the fact that he acknowledged this you have to respect him for this!

                    Doesn't it cost bucket loads of $$$ to get a vehicle re-engineered certificate?

                    I personally think that joe-blogs should be aware of this if wanting to mod his rig!

                    Cheers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Totally incorrect.
                      I did not have to comply anything, however I chose to as I had the resource available..

                      It went over the pits because I was defected for having HID in my headlights..

                      They inspected the whole car, were satisfied I had removed the HID, busted me for tint, removed on the spot to allow a pass.
                      Brakes were upgraded to AP racing front calipers as I happened to have a set laying around. Since gone back onto a off road race truck and I have standard brakes again.

                      Everything passed even though my tyres at the time were larger than allowed legally, after they passed it all I produced my compliance certificates and showed them the second compliance plate ( behind tool kit in rear door trim) , they admitted they missed the fact the muddies were larger than standard..

                      They were more amazed that the cop had sent me to regency ( pits) for a simple headlight issue. And even more he fact the car was so immaculate and obviously not a hoon wagon.

                      Oh. They also passed 3 x spotlights before legislation allowed such. Go figure..

                      A compliance certificate from an approved engineer is about $300.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ymus don't get despondent most of us who have grandes have all the accessories you want . I bought my dobinson springs off the Internet , bought the ARB deluxe bar from them and fitted it myself by myself , bought the winch on Internet . Bought the awning from ARB but you can get them from almost any good camping store or the Internet , they are all the same , you will just pay more for the aRB name . If you don't have the wherewithal to install all the toys find someone who will for you. The grande is a sensational vehicle you don't need to lift it , it has a button . You don't need a diff locks , it has traction control , congratulations on your purchase you will love it and what it can do as standard . Surf this forum and you will find every answer you need about how or what to do.you just need to know how to access the info that is here . There is virtually nothing that has not been covered before about a prado . When I joined this site I spent 3 weeks just surfing through the info available . Enjoy
                        03 grande v6 , with added stuff that makes it go places . RTFM people !
                        founding member of the " you don't need all that crap on a prado association "
                        "you only use 15% of your brain " Einstein . " so why not burn off the other 85% " Cheech & Chong .
                        petrol , petrol ,petrol , you know it makes sense ! im kavpetrolbitch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Putting aside the Grande in this post for a moment things are very much up in the air in Qld right now. QCOP has some variances to the NCOP which makes Automotive Engineers nervous. Without stability control you are allowed to put in 50mm of suspension lift, 50mm larger diameter tyres (with the usual requirements of load and speed rating, no fouling of suspension or body, tyres are within the guards and track is not reduced or not increased more than 25mm) AND a 50mm body lift. Not one engineer I spoke with would do all three. With ESC the legislation calls for the manufacturer (never happen) or the supplier to certify that the modification to the suspension (again up to 50mm) does not compromise the operation of the ESC. I am aware that both ARB and TJM say that their lifts for a new 150 for example comply. Under QCOP each vehicle is to be tested individually to ensure compliance. None of the suppliers I spoke with nor any of the engineers can agree on what test. The lane change test? Sky walkers Moose test obviously or something else. Nothing is legislated with regards to speed or what actually complies. Not even Engineers at the Dept against Transport could give me an answer, they just quoted the legislation. As for tyre changes that again is up to the supplier to certify. I suspect that is why the ARB promotional 150 sits on Grandtreks. Be nice for Sam or someone else to jump in and clarify this. QCOP is under review right now because those who make the rules have realised that a single standard that applies equally to a Jimny or a 70 series is a bit dumb. So when the dust settles it might make more sense. I did my mods while QCOP and the old regs were running side by side so I have a lift and +14mm on tyres. Definitely would prefer to go to 265/70s next time around, luckily that is a year away so hopefully a result by then.

                          My 2.2c (GST included) having driven my 120 and 150 with ESC and lifts and other 120s and 150s with ESC and no lifts is that the aftermarket suspension I have had (Toughdog, ARB and now TJM) makes the system work better and more predictably because the new suspension takes the blancmange out that Toyota sees fit to put under the Prado in the first place.

                          As for the Grande when I first joined this site there was a lot of talk about the major players not wanting to lift a Grande because of the rear airbags. Memory is hazy and I didn't go back over those early posts but Autocraft offered I think the first tweak of the back end, probably after the likes of amts, the pigmeister and others worked it out for themselves. Now there are plenty of lifted Grandes and Kakadus here and places that are happy to put longer coils in the front of the Grande and Kakadu and it is just a matter of shopping with your head and finding the places who are happy to do the work.
                          My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My ARB were a little different when I went in to give the local guy a chance with a sale, I talked to the manager who insisted that a lift wasn't possible as he had put every know ARB product on his father in laws grande but could not find a way to install a lift. I gave him all the part numbers needed and told him to google pradopoint and airbagman. After ordering all my suspension from CalOffroad I asked the chain mechanic for a price on install but were also scared off by the rear, I wasn't surprised at all and I will still go back for servicing.
                            As a 25yr old Electrician in Alice Springs I loaded lots of threads with advice up on the Ipad and set off swapping out the old with the new and with the help of my father in law we got it done and the family enjoyed the trip away over Easter. Only complaint was from the daughter not wanting to let me pack up to come home I must say thanks to everyone here for the advice. (Sorry for the rant)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              He fellas THANKS so much, it is really reassuring to get the feedback that you have all given, the deep insights and the places to go, and the people to listen to.
                              What a difference belonging to this Forum makes.
                              This has proved to me that belonging to a group of like minded individuals who care and share is important.
                              So thank you - I am here for a bloody long time in my "about to be modified" Grande!!
                              You have all given me the confidence to own enjoy and change the way I/we want to do it without the worry!
                              BRING IT ON!!

                              Thanks
                              Larry D
                              YMUS
                              "[B]The PEARL[/B]" is our early 2009 120 "Pearl White"Grande . [B]The build consists of[/B]: ARB deluxe Bar, Winch is a Domin8tor, Driving lights are 3X Korr LED's. Roof Rack is a RR 42107B. - Rear Draws are from OffRoad Systems 3 draw plus fridge slide, table and 40ltr S.S. tank. See our build site : [URL]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?32140-Start-of-quot-The-Pearl-quot-transformation-April-2014[/URL]
                              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                              Comment

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