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  • #76
    Let's not forget the almost zero percent import tax that overseas manufacturers are paying to bring their cars to our shores.
    How on earth can an Australian company compete with cars (or anything else) being made in countries like China, where minimum wage is less than what our guys spend each day on morning tea.
    The government has a lot to answer for when it comes to manufacturing as a whole in Australia.
    A almost everything we buy these days is manufactured overseas, simply because it costs too much to make it here and sell it at a competitive price, again competing with cheap labour costs overseas.
    And the spineless jellyfish unions are not helping one bit.

    Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now...I need a coffee.
    2009 150 GXL V6 Auto. Ironman deluxe bullbar, uniden uhf, ironman awning, roof mounted solar panel, softdog suspension, adjustable upper control arms, lightforce 240 spotlights, 265/70/17 Hancook Dynapro's, Sidewinder dual battery system, Maxtrax, Engel fridge, ARB draw system, Ironman Snorkel, Roadsafe Recovery Points, 80 watt Solar Panel.
    CUB Supavan Stockman camper.

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    • #77
      I visited a long time Ford/Holden owning mate of mine down south recently. He's always been a lover of the 6 cylinder Aussie built cars. Well, until he bought his missus the latest turbo-diesel Volvo. Only a slight clatter gives the diesel away and it goes as hard as any home grown sixes. Years ago you would stereo-type the owners as retired bowling club going oldies but Volvo are now turning out some pretty good machines that are appealing to a younger market.
      Dave
      Views expressed are mine alone and are not intended to compromise the integrity of my employer nor offend those who may read such views.
      Bugger Bali, get out and see Australia before we sell it all to China.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Jaymboze View Post
        Let's not forget the almost zero percent import tax that overseas manufacturers are paying to bring their cars to our shores.
        How on earth can an Australian company compete with cars (or anything else) being made in countries like China, where minimum wage is less than what our guys spend each day on morning tea.
        The government has a lot to answer for when it comes to manufacturing as a whole in Australia.
        A almost everything we buy these days is manufactured overseas, simply because it costs too much to make it here and sell it at a competitive price, again competing with cheap labour costs overseas.
        And the spineless jellyfish unions are not helping one bit.

        Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now...I need a coffee.
        We hear this a lot, but one thing no one ever seems to insist on exploring and having explained, is the amount the executives of these "struggling" companies pay themselves.

        Mathematics must have changed since I went to school, as I just can't calculate how a large company (absolutely!) must cut it's wages and supply bills, but can easily afford executive excesses. Hundreds of millions in salary and bonuses, flashy buildings, personal work place catering, etc, etc...

        One of the most glaring examples was the execs of the US car industry flying to Washington in their privates jets, travelling in limo's, all while crying poor and demanding billions in bail out money.

        (Our politicians trot out the same doctrine. Cuts for pensioners but pay rises for pollies)

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Beach View Post
          We hear this a lot, but one thing no one ever seems to insist on exploring and having explained, is the amount the executives of these "struggling" companies pay themselves.

          Mathematics must have changed since I went to school, as I just can't calculate how a large company (absolutely!) must cut it's wages and supply bills, but can easily afford executive excesses. Hundreds of millions in salary and bonuses, flashy buildings, personal work place catering, etc, etc...

          One of the most glaring examples was the execs of the US car industry flying to Washington in their privates jets, travelling in limo's, all while crying poor and demanding billions in bail out money.

          (Our politicians trot out the same doctrine. Cuts for pensioners but pay rises for pollies)
          True...to a point.
          Let's not forget that a big company like Holden, Ford, Toyota etc. MUST have the best Management they can afford if they want to compete in today's global market. Hence the hugh salaries these guys are being paid. Can you imagine how long one of these companies would last if the salary package they offered only attracted mediocre management...?
          About five minutes i would guess.
          These salaries are not realistic compared to the guy on the factory floor, and why should they be.
          Some unskilled worker spinning on wheel nuts all day get $28.00 an hour should not complain when they have absolutely zero stress or responsibility when it comes to the running of the entire company.
          It's true that a lot of bad decisions may have been made by the likes of Holden who are now feeling the squeeze in this economic climate, but the government has more to answer for when it comes to importing products like cars into this country without imposing enough tax to keep the industry competitive.

          Level playing field my Ass....!

          Ooops, soap box again...
          2009 150 GXL V6 Auto. Ironman deluxe bullbar, uniden uhf, ironman awning, roof mounted solar panel, softdog suspension, adjustable upper control arms, lightforce 240 spotlights, 265/70/17 Hancook Dynapro's, Sidewinder dual battery system, Maxtrax, Engel fridge, ARB draw system, Ironman Snorkel, Roadsafe Recovery Points, 80 watt Solar Panel.
          CUB Supavan Stockman camper.

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          • #80
            Ps:

            I forgot to add that I do feel sorry for the thousands of workers who will be put out of jobs due to the enforced demise of all manufacturing in this country, which has been going on since the late 80's.

            Oh crap I've gotta burn this bloody box....������
            2009 150 GXL V6 Auto. Ironman deluxe bullbar, uniden uhf, ironman awning, roof mounted solar panel, softdog suspension, adjustable upper control arms, lightforce 240 spotlights, 265/70/17 Hancook Dynapro's, Sidewinder dual battery system, Maxtrax, Engel fridge, ARB draw system, Ironman Snorkel, Roadsafe Recovery Points, 80 watt Solar Panel.
            CUB Supavan Stockman camper.

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            • #81
              Something that needs to be put into perspective in case I'm to pissed to remember that I've already written this is that , the workers at Holden as well as the executives , are being paid about three times what the average australian wage is . For an unskilled labour job . But the unions didn't say to them , maybe you oughta pull you're heads in , because you aren't worth $100 000 + a year . It's happening at Ford , Holden , Shell , Caltex . These people are being paid an absolute crap load of money for doing an absolutely ordinary job . For the record , if you want to look it up , the "average " Australian wage is $46-47 thousand dollars . I'm just pissed off that I couldn't get on the gravy train before it got derailed and I was sent packing with a nice fat redundancy cheque . Time to join the real world now . No more sheltered workshop .
              03 grande v6 , with added stuff that makes it go places . RTFM people !
              founding member of the " you don't need all that crap on a prado association "
              "you only use 15% of your brain " Einstein . " so why not burn off the other 85% " Cheech & Chong .
              petrol , petrol ,petrol , you know it makes sense ! im kavpetrolbitch

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              • #82
                Originally posted by kav View Post
                Something that needs to be put into perspective in case I'm to pissed to remember that I've already written this is that , the workers at Holden as well as the executives , are being paid about three times what the average australian wage is . For an unskilled labour job . But the unions didn't say to them , maybe you oughta pull you're heads in , because you aren't worth $100 000 + a year . It's happening at Ford , Holden , Shell , Caltex . These people are being paid an absolute crap load of money for doing an absolutely ordinary job . For the record , if you want to look it up , the "average " Australian wage is $46-47 thousand dollars . I'm just pissed off that I couldn't get on the gravy train before it got derailed and I was sent packing with a nice fat redundancy cheque . Time to join the real world now . No more sheltered workshop .

                That's great, so the people that build the faults get paid twice as much as the poor mechanics that bust their arses to fix them. Don't forget us mechanics also went through a 4 year apprenticeship, where we got paid pretty much nothing. We also have to supply all our own tools out of that wage. I didn't realise unskilled labour was worth so much..... (end rant)
                [LEFT]Silver 150 Facelift
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                • #83
                  I think you will find that the average australian wage is now near 75k.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Jaymboze View Post
                    True...to a point.
                    Let's not forget that a big company like Holden, Ford, Toyota etc. MUST have the best Management they can afford if they want to compete in today's global market. Hence the hugh salaries these guys are being paid. Can you imagine how long one of these companies would last if the salary package they offered only attracted mediocre management...?
                    About five minutes i would guess.
                    These salaries are not realistic compared to the guy on the factory floor, and why should they be.
                    Some unskilled worker spinning on wheel nuts all day get $28.00 an hour should not complain when they have absolutely zero stress or responsibility when it comes to the running of the entire company.
                    It's true that a lot of bad decisions may have been made by the likes of Holden who are now feeling the squeeze in this economic climate, but the government has more to answer for when it comes to importing products like cars into this country without imposing enough tax to keep the industry competitive.

                    Level playing field my Ass....!

                    Ooops, soap box again...
                    This is also true... but only to a point. Its also a big furphy that the corporate world would have us believe. Anyone thats had anything to do with these executive types will tell you theres plenty of complete knobheads who's only goal is to be employed as senior management or an executive because of the money to be made. Its certainly not what you would call a meritorious achievement. Their "skill" lies is being able to blag their way into these positions, #### it up and get paid a fortune to go away and/or cleverly blame it on the workers they are supposed to be responsible for. Its also known as "failing upwards".

                    Theres plenty of companies that have pay scales that are multiples starting with the entry level wage. Bonus schemes apply to everyone according to the relevant pay level. If the company does well, everyone gets a bonus.

                    "...companies like Holden, Ford, Toyota etc. MUST have the best Management..."

                    The flaw in this lies within. The executive does get paid the big bucks because they are supposed to be the best and know what they are doing.... but they presided over the corporations demise and STILL walked away with massive payouts while Rome burned, all the while declaring "its unviable, we just can't compete".

                    This same argument is regularly trotted out about politicians. Hands up who would be happy to give Tony, Joe, Malcolm, Ju-liar, Wayne, Kevin, etc, etc.... a pay rise?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I'm only guessing but I'd say the biggest part of the problem is that we are on Prado Point commenting on the demise of locally built cars! Ie: we all bought imports - for whatever reason we use to justify it we didn't buy local.

                      And propping Holden and Ford up by borrowing money from China doesn't make sense either, might as well just buy cars from China, Japan, Asia in general.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by REN470 View Post
                        I'm only guessing but I'd say the biggest part of the problem is that we are on Prado Point commenting on the demise of locally built cars! Ie: we all bought imports - for whatever reason we use to justify it we didn't buy local.

                        And propping Holden and Ford up by borrowing money from China doesn't make sense either, might as well just buy cars from China, Japan, Asia in general.
                        See my previous about the executive getting paid the big bucks they "deserve" to make sure the company remains viable.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by slimf View Post
                          I think you will find that the average australian wage is now near 75k.
                          That's according to the bureau of statistics which uses a median figure ie . an average . This figure is not representative of the average workers pay level , it is boosted by the large proportion of mega earners in Australia . If you google a little further you will find that when properly adjusted ,46-47 thousand dollars is what 50% of Australian workers earn . Makes interesting reading , not many people realise this . My missus has been a teacher for 20 plus years and still earns less than the starting wage that these unskilled workers receive .
                          03 grande v6 , with added stuff that makes it go places . RTFM people !
                          founding member of the " you don't need all that crap on a prado association "
                          "you only use 15% of your brain " Einstein . " so why not burn off the other 85% " Cheech & Chong .
                          petrol , petrol ,petrol , you know it makes sense ! im kavpetrolbitch

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Beach View Post
                            See my previous about the executive getting paid the big bucks they "deserve" to make sure the company remains viable.
                            Blaming executives is just tall poppy syndrome, no one can "make sure" a company remains viable. What they can do is say we can't make money lets close it down and thats what they did, thats where their obligations finish. As for golden parachutes, if they are smart enough to negotiate that good on them in the same way the workers have negotiated there conditions, which by the way are far better than mine but that would be my issue not theres.

                            Who do you blame - Executives, workers, unions, politicians and the buying (or in this case the non buying) public. If we cared enough we would be buying fords and holdens but not enough of us are. There are a heap of Prado's that are used as people movers, these could have been station wagon sales as most won't see a track in anger.

                            Me, I have a Prado for me and the wife and dog, been off road - not yet but might. I am also part of the problem only difference is I'm not blaming some tall poppy.


                            By the way I do have a Falcon ute for work and love it. Could have had a Colorado, Ranger or Hilux but love my ute and will be getting one more before there gone for good.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by REN470 View Post
                              Blaming executives is just tall poppy syndrome, no one can "make sure" a company remains viable. What they can do is say we can't make money lets close it down and thats what they did, thats where their obligations finish. As for golden parachutes, if they are smart enough to negotiate that good on them in the same way the workers have negotiated there conditions, which by the way are far better than mine but that would be my issue not theres.

                              Who do you blame - Executives, workers, unions, politicians and the buying (or in this case the non buying) public. If we cared enough we would be buying fords and holdens but not enough of us are. There are a heap of Prado's that are used as people movers, these could have been station wagon sales as most won't see a track in anger.

                              Me, I have a Prado for me and the wife and dog, been off road - not yet but might. I am also part of the problem only difference is I'm not blaming some tall poppy.


                              By the way I do have a Falcon ute for work and love it. Could have had a Colorado, Ranger or Hilux but love my ute and will be getting one more before there gone for good.

                              So we're back to "tall poppy syndrome" when those in charge are held accountable? Alan Bond and Christopher Skase tried that one. So did Eddie Obeid and now Jeff McCloy reckons its a good idea.

                              "I'm in charge of the ship!" (until it hits the rocks - then its all someone elses fault)

                              Then the excuses flow:

                              - the workers want to much money,
                              - customers aren't buying our products,
                              - too much competition,
                              - SARS,
                              - Bird flu,
                              - Ebola,
                              - volcanic eruption in Iceland
                              - we're waiting for the second coming

                              All the up side, none of the down side.

                              I stopped looking at Ford and Holden when they stopped evolving with the times and the market. Its the same attitude that saw the demise of the British motor industry.

                              How dare the Japanese show up with their fancy quality!
                              And whats this thing called "market research"? Find out what the customer wants and give to them? What?
                              Electrics that keep going when it rains?
                              Engines that don't leave a trail of oil everywhere they go?

                              Then we get to Ford and Holdens warranty policy, or lack there of. Sadly it seems Toyota is now going the same way.

                              We have been hearing this "its not my fault unless it all goes well", shirking of responsibilities, cop out crap for decades.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Beach View Post
                                So we're back to "tall poppy syndrome" when those in charge are held accountable? Alan Bond and Christopher Skase tried that one. So did Eddie Obeid and now Jeff McCloy reckons its a good idea.

                                "I'm in charge of the ship!" (until it hits the rocks - then its all someone elses fault)

                                Then the excuses flow:

                                - the workers want to much money,
                                - customers aren't buying our products,
                                - too much competition,
                                - SARS,
                                - Bird flu,
                                - Ebola,
                                - volcanic eruption in Iceland
                                - we're waiting for the second coming

                                All the up side, none of the down side.

                                I stopped looking at Ford and Holden when they stopped evolving with the times and the market. Its the same attitude that saw the demise of the British motor industry.

                                How dare the Japanese show up with their fancy quality!
                                And whats this thing called "market research"? Find out what the customer wants and give to them? What?
                                Electrics that keep going when it rains?
                                Engines that don't leave a trail of oil everywhere they go?

                                Then we get to Ford and Holdens warranty policy, or lack there of. Sadly it seems Toyota is now going the same way.

                                We have been hearing this "its not my fault unless it all goes well", shirking of responsibilities, cop out crap for decades.
                                So what the answer...?
                                Anyone...?
                                2009 150 GXL V6 Auto. Ironman deluxe bullbar, uniden uhf, ironman awning, roof mounted solar panel, softdog suspension, adjustable upper control arms, lightforce 240 spotlights, 265/70/17 Hancook Dynapro's, Sidewinder dual battery system, Maxtrax, Engel fridge, ARB draw system, Ironman Snorkel, Roadsafe Recovery Points, 80 watt Solar Panel.
                                CUB Supavan Stockman camper.

                                Comment

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