DC - DC Charger Vs Smart Solenoids

[D4Dazz Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4Dazz]

I have been looking around at different type of dual battery set ups for the 150 with varying levels of confusion creeping in. Whilst I understand the difference between DC-DC chargers and smart solinoids

[D4Dazz Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4Dazz]

Helps if you finish typing before you hit "post".......

Anyway, as I was saying, whilst I understand the deaf fence between DC-DC chargers and smart solenoids, I seem to get different opinions what actually works best in the 150.

One well know auto electrician in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne obviously goes the s,art solenoid route as that is what they are famous for, although they are cheaper than a charger, this particular business wants to change 3 times the fitting cost compared to any other auto elec.

What I have been told on a numbers of occasions by various auto elecs is that the 150 does not optimize battery charge to the aux battery and thus requires such a system.

Would love to here what people think?

What I have found out is, that some business expect you pay an hourly rate similar to that of a brain surgeon just to do a little electrical work on your vehicle....

[D4Dazz Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4Dazz]

DC - DC Chargers Vs Smart Solenoids

Helps if you finish typing before you hit "post".......

Anyway, as I was saying, whilst I understand the deaf fence between DC-DC chargers and smart solenoids, I seem to get different opinions what actually works best in the 150.

One well know auto electrician in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne obviously goes the s,art solenoid route as that is what they are famous for, although they are cheaper than a charger, this particular business wants to change 3 times the fitting cost compared to any other auto elec.

What I have been told on a numbers of occasions by various auto elecs is that the 150 does not optimize battery charge to the aux battery and thus requires such a system.

Would love to here what people think?

What I have found out is, that some business expect you pay an hourly rate similar to that of a brain surgeon just to do a little electrical work on your vehicle....

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

The 150 suffers from low charge, fitting a booster diode is a simply fix that will overcome this
problem.

For the majority of in car system a smart solenoid with booster diode if required will
provide a faster charge than a DCDC charger, especially if multiple aux batteries are
to be installed.

With regards to a trailer / caravan battery setup it all revolves around the quailty
of the install and the length of the cabling runs, in most cases if suitable cabling is
installed you can get a good charge rate for the trailer battery using a simple'
VSR setup.

For big vans with long cable runs it may not be possible to get a reasonable charge
voltage due to voltage drop across the cable, in this situation a DCDC charger would
be the solution.

If you intend to run a three way fridge in a trailer etc then you will also need a seperate power run for the fridge.

Cheers
Leigh

[maxjj Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close maxjj]

if you are somewhat handy you can fit your own system, I used ABR sidewinders kit and have the voltage booster diode that LeighW above mentions. http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page190.html

I used a Piranha tray for the battery, as from what I have seen its the best fit and allows a full N 70 sized battery to be fitted in the diesel.
The advantage to doing it yourself is that you will know exactly how it works making fault finding much easier.

The other system that I have used with great success is to just run two identical batteries together and have the car and aux run of both. But I also fitted a manual isolator on the "-ve" of both batteries. If I was concerned about draining the main battery I would just simply disconnect the "-ve" on the main and keep it fully charged by effectively removing it from the circuit. With two big N70 batteries helping to start the car and each sharing the work I got 6 years out of them before one started playing up, I then simply replaced both.

Either way no system is perfect and you still need to keep an eye on things and manage things appropriately.

[D4Dazz Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4Dazz]

Thanks heaps guys....

[Warnsie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Warnsie]

I am also looking into the DC Charger and Isolator world. And another point that REDARC brought up was that 'current sensing' in new vehicle electrical systems means that all additional electrical accessories must be grounded to the vehicle chassis or body, not to the main battery negative terminal. I am guessing that if you don't the ECU will sense too much current and automatically lower the alternator voltage to save fuel and emissions? That could mean that these diode boosters may not have an affect as the ECU could interoperate it as too much and even turn the alternator off?

Whats peoples thoughts on this?

Heres a link: http://www.redarc.com.au/images/uplo...-sept_2012.pdf

[Warnsie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Warnsie]

On another note. Apparently the voltage on 2013 model prados have increased. Can anyone confirm whether Toyota increased voltages on the 2012 models?

[garbage Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close garbage]

I've recently had a dual battery system installed on my 150. I haven't gone the booster diode route and haven't had any issues. 15 minutes driving a day seems to top the battery up to about 12.7v. It's usually around 12.3v the next morning. Battery is 84 A/H. Fridge is about 60L. I've also since extended the cable run to a ~60 A/H battery on the camper trailer (an additional 3.5m from the rear Anderson plug). Both auxiliary batteries were around 12.8v after a 3 hour drive.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

I am also looking into the DC Charger and Isolator world. And another point that REDARC brought up was that 'current sensing' in new vehicle electrical systems means that all additional electrical accessories must be grounded to the vehicle chassis or body, not to the main battery negative terminal. I am guessing that if you don't the ECU will sense too much current and automatically lower the alternator voltage to save fuel and emissions? That could mean that these diode boosters may not have an affect as the ECU could interoperate it as too much and even turn the alternator off? Whats peoples thoughts on this? Heres a link: http://www.redarc.com.au/images/uplo...-sept_2012.pdf

This applies only to models where the engine management system controls the alternator, the Mazda BT50, Landrover & late model Navara's etc. The ECU monitors the cranking battery charge, when it is thinks the cranking battery is charged it reduces the charge voltage. The ECU monitors a hall effect device which measures the current flowing through the battery, if it decides it is excessive it will throw a error, which is why you can't attach any accessories to the negative battery terminal of these vehicles. It is not possible to use to use a booster diode on these vehicles.

Toyota have possibly raised the voltage on 2013 Prado, from what drivesafe wrote a new Prado he drove sat on about 13.8V, mind you my 2008 sits on 13.7V - 13.8V without booster fitted, other Prado's though can be lower. It varies from car to car.

Leigh

[Warnsie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Warnsie]

I've recently had a dual battery system installed on my 150. I haven't gone the booster diode route and haven't had any issues. 15 minutes driving a day seems to top the battery up to about 12.7v. It's usually around 12.3v the next morning. Battery is 84 A/H. Fridge is about 60L. I've also since extended the cable run to a ~60 A/H battery on the camper trailer (an additional 3.5m from the rear Anderson plug). Both auxiliary batteries were around 12.8v after a 3 hour drive.

Hi Garbage

What isolator or DC charger are you using?

[garbage Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close garbage]

Hi Garbage

What isolator or DC charger are you using?

I have the Redarc SBI12. No DC charger or diode. Mine is a 2012 150 GXL.

[Warnsie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Warnsie]

This applies only to models where the engine management system controls the alternator, the Mazda BT50, Landrover & late model Navara's etc.

Toyota have possibly raised the voltage on 2013 Prado, from what drivesafe wrote a new Prado he drove sat on about 13.8V, mind you my 2008 sits on 13.7V - 13.8V without booster fitted, other Prado's though can be lower. It varies from car to car.

Leigh

So it is possible to ground accessories through the cranking battery's negative terminal? And I do not have to necessarily use an expensive DC charger?

[Warnsie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Warnsie]

I have the Redarc SBI12. No DC charger or diode. Mine is a 2012 150 GXL.

Thanks garbage

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

So it is possible to ground accessories through the cranking battery's negative terminal? And I do not have to necessarily use an expensive DC charger?

On vehicles where the negative battery terminal is monitored by a hall effect device all accessories including a DCDC charger must be connected to the earth point on the body of the vehicle and not to the negative battery terminal.

You can't use a booster diode on these vehicles, as to if you require a DCDC charger,
measuring the charge voltage will be the determining factor, I believe I read somewhere
that the dealer service people can inhibit the smart charge control through an engine
management system on one of the models I mentioned, think it was the BT50, don't know
about the others.

Leigh