Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi guys

Was looking at the load ratings on both the 120 Vs 150 Diesel Auto's. (Not the petrol).

Prado 120 series

Kerb Weight =========== 2010-2190 Kg
Gross Vehicle Mass ==== 2900 Kg
Front axle load (max) = 1290 Kg
Rear axle load (max) = 1800 Kg

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Prado 150 series

Kerb Weight =========== 2210-2435 Kg
Gross Vehicle Mass ==== 2990 Kg
Front axle load (max) = 1450 Kg
Rear axle load (max) = 1800 Kg

The heaviest kerb weight of the 120 series weighs in @ 2190 kg as appose to the 150 series @ 2435 kg

That makes the 150 series kerb weight a 245 Kg heavier than the 120 series and it carries 30Ltr less fuel as well! (This extra weight is in the extra reinforcement of the safety cell).

The 150 series also has a higher GVM of 90Kg compared to the 120 series.

Interestingly!.. Both the 120 & 150 series have the same Rear axle load (max) = 1800 Kg rating but the 150 series has an extra load rating of an extra 160 Kg on the front axle!

Coincidentally both the 120 & 150 series have the same chassis rail! (They have the same part numbers).

With all those figure comparison's that makes the 150 series "less" capable of carrying more weight compared to the 120 series.

So we go back to looking at the extra weight being fitted to the front of the 150 series despite the higher pay-load rating on the front axle. (has to share the extra 245 Kg body weight).

Just throwing thoughts out there that's all!

Do the aftermarket guys crash test there products to see if the extra reinforcements impairs the original crumple structures?

I will probably get flamed for asking such a question but the question of interest is in favor of the vehicle owners.

Cheers

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

Wow. Gotta say I got busy driving my bullbarless, stock front suspension Parado so haven't read this post for months. Some interesting revelations. The real surprise for me - stepping back a little - is that Toyota a focussing on the bullbar and not considering suspension. Stiff aftermarket suspension has just as much to do with this issue - if not more - than the boat anchors hanging off the front. Also explains my 2nd 120 starting to crack even though it never had a bar.

Thoughts?

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Gordon,

I would have thought that too soft suspension would have been more of a risk than a properly calibrated aftermarket suspension. Factory suspensions have a habit of easily bottoming out which would present more of a risk to damage than carefully selected spring rates that prevent it. Certainly, that is Darren McCrae's (Autocraft suspension guru) opinion. Food for thought.

I do find it interesting that you have previously had two Prados with cracks and yet continue to purchase them. This incident has made me swear to never buy another Prado as long as I live. Each to their own I guess.

I believe sometimes we tend to make excuses for the vehicle rather than face up to the fact that the Prado, while comfortable and capable is on the limits of it's engineering envelope in certain areas for a lot of the applications that forum members use it for.
You might find that the majority of people are able to continue on "fat, dumb and happy" and get away with it. But it might not take much - even a slight manufacture abnomality for there to be issues. This is probably what the Toyota bean counters rely on when deciding on whether or not to properly address a potential engineering problem. Its a numbers game.

I met a bloke in the Kimberley with a 150 Prado who had done Anne Beadel, CSR on the way there and said had flogged the bejeesus out of car. He had ARB bar, winch with steel cable, dual battery, OME suspension etc. In other words, more weight than me.
The winch control box bracket had disintgrated, antenna whips broken, fractured spotlight, bullbar indicator surrounds missing, yet no guard cracks. Maybe he is lucky? Time will tell I guess - I forgot to ask him how many Ks he had done. But having the thought in the back of your mind that your vehicle is possibly not up to driving on gazetted Australian roads is not good.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Forgot to add: The passenger side guard is now severely cracked and has all but seperated from the radiator support. To prevent the whole thing from destroying itself while I fight Toyota I have removed the OEM battery from the vehicle and rewired it so that the car now starts from the auxillary battery.

[Drj Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drj]

I'm in agreance with many in this thread who have declared that nearly all 4wd's have issues but that in itself isn't the problem it is how the manufacturer responds to the problem as to how we as consumers react. I am sure if Schniff had been dealt with in a respectable manner he would continue to be happy with Toyota and the prado. As already mentioned by the roo this is not an individual case but a continuing one as if it is now in their policies and procedures manual under 'unhappy bastards who have the indecency to purchase our superior products and not be happy'. I too have had 2nd thoughts on future purchases not because of the issues but because of toyots's responses to too many of these issues.

[Drj Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drj]

Forgot to add: The passenger side guard is now severely cracked and has all but seperated from the radiator support. To prevent the whole thing from destroying itself while I fight Toyota I have removed the OEM battery from the vehicle and rewired it so that the car now starts from the auxillary battery.

Best of luck with it all, no-one should have to go to this extent with a vehicle still under warranty, not good enough Toyota, what about the tv media eg A current Affair/today tonight have you approached them they always love to have a go at car yards etc.

[smakb Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close smakb]

One concern is that I have done just about everything that this thread has said not to do. Stiff suspension, bull bar with side rails, duel batteries, winch, air compressor (with air tank fitted to bull bar) and I give my car a real hard time off road. Am I just lucky? I thought so until I heard of the issues when people have this problem in stock vehicles.


Steve

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Best of luck with it all, no-one should have to go to this extent with a vehicle still under warranty, not good enough Toyota, what about the tv media eg A current Affair/today tonight have you approached them they always love to have a go at car yards etc.

As I've said, I have no interest in going silly slandering Toyota and the car. It hurts because I really liked the car and want to continue as a Toyota customer (just not in a Prado). I'm sending Toyota a letter tomorrow spelling out my position, so will see how they respond.

How many ks have you done Steve?

[smakb Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close smakb]

60k in an Apr 2010 GXL


Steve

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

Hi Schiff: I usually avoid the bar arguments these daze, but give it up man, whilst you say I'm making excuses for Toyota, you're making excuses for the aftermarket crap. My money is on the big T, not on some bodgie anachronistic factory in Australia cashing up on people intent on looking the biz. My pattern of buying Prados is based on e x p e r i e n c e. Not just with Prados but with several 4wds, all used in what is generally considered to be extreme conditions, not all of them gazetted. The less you mess with these things the fewer problems you'll have*. And you know with all the falling apart my first car had, it never actually stopped - gotta love that.

G.
*Except always put a sumpguard on diesel Holdens.

PS if you don't fit heavy bullbars & rear bars & 100kgs of drawers your car will almost never bottom out and when it does it will have so little energy left in it (aaaah now there's the smarts in the design of the OEM suspension) that it wont do any harm.
PPS what is it with rear bars - all that weight and money and stuffing around to open the boot for at most - ONE EXTRA WHEEL???!!!
PPPS I use Oates plastic drawers - 3 stacked and riveted cost <$100 & weigh less than my smallest saucepan.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday Gordon

LMAO!!!! Does that mean that you read in between the lines on my observations and are confirming what i written??

I personally was aiming more towards the tender-footed approach with the intent of expressing genuine empathy (For which i still do towards Schniff as his situation is not funny) when i put up my observations but you just cut-out the chase and came right out of with it like a bull let loose in a china shop!!! Lol

I shall now run away as i am sure "flaming" and carnage will follow!! Lol

Cheers

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

Yeah, I was just about to pull my punches and now it's been read there's not much point But suffice to say Schniff, that at the end of the day I do feel for you on this. I understand you've put a lot of dough into this, not to mention done some serious homework and now been through all manner of heartache. So sorry if it sounds a little aggressive.

Fortunately my first messy autodisassembly was on a 2nd hand car that I was able to sell locally to someone who didn't car that much; but I did lunch 10 grand on it...

And yes SkyWalker I read your posts - and agree with you and others who have taken a similar conservative setup line.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Mate its all good, I'm not bothered by your comments as there will always be people who think you shouldn't mod a car. I didnt think i'd find too many on a 4wd enthusiast forum though LOL. My old man is like that. I'm never going to change your mind.

I've accepted the Prado is borderline not quite up to it and will move on, once it is properly fixed.

[Dusty74 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dusty74]

Rear bar - gets spare off door/ provides rear protection. Too much weight - bull, car is designed to carry two adults in the back, conservatively 160kgs where the bar would be lucky to be 50kgs.
Bottoming out - what are you guys doing? I have covered some shit roads and haven't managed to do this. Surely if this happens regularly I'd be looking at failed components or operator error.
I'd be gutted if mine was cracked as bad as Schniff's and would expect warranty repair with or without aftermarket equipment, that's a cop out.

Just my opinion though, fire away!

Cheers,
Dusty

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

ha harr. Dusty: Just had a borrowed car - never installed a rear bar to one of my own - and couldn't get over the pain in the arse it is opening the back door. "For ONE EXTRA WHEEL" kept going through my mind. Anyway not so much the weight (around 70kgs plus the extra wheel brings you to around 110) but the distance rear of the axle, whereas your passengers will sit inside the wheelbase. Pendulum bla bla bla....

Not much else to fire, a bigger target please, I am probably Schniff's dad's age so you'll understand my eyesight is failing me.

Schniff, you're a good sport... what's next?? Gotta tell you I only need to look at a 70 series and my back starts groaning. If you get one of those distemperate donkies it's best get a long wheelbase (2 tanks stock, better ride and much more stable). Make sure you can cope with the offset pedals - my chiro refers to the symptoms as "asymmetry of the pelvis". Buy some earplugs for touring. Can't buy a new back.

G.