Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Under bonnet is a big red compressor, prevent 200, fuel pre-filter. Brown Davis bash plate would add a bit, but overall these are all typical touring mods.

Bear in mind I have an auto VX which is a bit heavier than Gxl. People with manual GXLs can relax. Auto adds weight too.

Schniff, I can see how you've got close to the limit. Where is the compressor mounted?

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

All this stuff is interesting but it doesn't help with this problem for 150 model owners that like to do all the mods for 4wding and touring. These cracks can lead to the vehicle being written off you know, and to me that's pretty serious.
Toyota Motor Corporation and the Australian division do market the 150s as a tough 4wd vehicle. So are they misrepresenting here? 10kgs is just crap and a smoke screen.
The Roo.

Roo I've read a lot of your posts and while I agree that TMC need to lift their game, I don't think they are worse than other companies. Based on my experience with issues they've fixed everything without question which is a lot better than my experience with Holden.

Also with the complexity of modern cars and in fact nearly all consumer goods, its quite common to see unforeseen issues popping up. I think what matters is how the company responds. As an example, when my 5 year old top of the range Samsung fridge died, Samsung wouldn't even look at it despite it being a known issue that was being fixed free of charge in some other countries. On the other hand Miele were still helping me when my 18 year old washing machine developed issues. Off topic but I've just bought a new Miele washer and dryer, and the dryer has a minor rattle and the stacking kit doesn't work but importantly, just like my experience with Toyota, they are coming out to fix it no questions asked.

If you look at the gear on Schniff's car it really is fully kitted out and probably right at the limit of what a Prado can handle. I can understand why you are unhappy with Toyota, my experience has been very different and so far they've been pretty good at coming to the party on issues.

I still think Schniff would be on very solid ground taking TMC on and getting this issue fixed, unless some of the mods such as the compressor have directly effected the structural integrity of the guards.

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10kgs is just crap and a smoke screen.
The Roo.

In engineering, there's this thing called Factor of Safety. I doubt that 10kg over the limit is the Factor of Safety. That's even less than the FOS applied to aircraft!

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

In engineering, there's this thing called Factor of Safety. I doubt that 10kg over the limit is the Factor of Safety. That's even less than the FOS applied to aircraft!

Yes you would think a fairly decent margin would be factored into that. 10kg surely isn't the difference between cracking and not cracking.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Roo I'm also frustrated by how complicated everything has become.

A long time ago I broke down in a HQ Holden on an old exploration track leading from Roxby to Lake Eyre. I remember how simple it was when you lifted the bonnet; distributor, leads and plugs for spark and fuel pump, filter, and carby for fuel.

Interestingly the old HQ had a fuel bowl which was full of water, let the water out and off you go. These days if you could find the problem the whole system would need to be flushed, you'd probably need to be towed out and your warranty would probably be voided.

Also with modern computer aided design techniques everything is designed right on the limit and the old concept of a design factor of safety is parred right down to save costs. I remember an old engineer who was a bit of a mentor once took me out to look at a job, he just stood there and stared for a while. I asked "what are you doing", he replied "eying it in, if it doesn't look right it probably isn't". Despite all the modern sophisticated design processes I find a lot of stuff really looks fragile these days and not surprisingly often it is.

So while all the comforts and features are nice, the complexity of everything is really starting to shit me.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Some good discussion here guys even if we are getting a wee bit off topic :-P. Still, appreciate all the comments.

Krypto, the compresser is installed near the firewall on passenger side, with a bracket from the firewall that helps support it. It is mounted on rubbers to remove vibration. It is a long way from the the fracture point and not even Toyota suggested it was the fault.

What I have been told is that it is not covered due to the non-genuine bullbar. I am just trying to get it in writing because ARB are willing to go to town over it. (They've been pretty supportive). This is proving difficult. I ran out of time to chase this up due to a Kimberley trip (completed today) that was planned 6 months ago. I paid for the cracks to be welded as a stop gap because the alternative was to cancel the trip. I did not expect it to be a permanent solution, but nor did I expect it to crack again straight away.

Ultimately with consumer law the way it is Toyota have to prove that the modifications have caused the fault. No manufacturer is a arbitrator on their own warranty - it is covered in the Trade Practices Act 1974, which I believe has been renamed the Competetion and Consumer Act 2010. This requires engineering evidence rather than unproved speculated theories. So far there is circumstancial evidence of a gentleman who has cracks in his guards with no mods. This may point to a fundamental problem, hopefully isolated to just a few cases.

I should be ok, depending on how far I want to take it. In terms of media exposure have no interest in taking it beyond this members only forum provided it is resolved. Otherwise there is Carsguide (news paper), other 4wd forums etc etc. I will be consulting Consumer Affairs and the RAA tomorrow.

When I originally approached Toyota I had one of the earliest modified 150s which they may have written off as 'he's modified it, its a one off' but I told the dealer that as soon as I find people without mods with the same issue, look out. Lets see how Toyota react now, hopefully they come to the party without a massive fight.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

I'd say you have a strong case. Based on my experience trying to solve the vibration problem, Toyota don't seem to have any good technical people in Australia.

It's hard to guess without seeing the car but a compressor, even with rubber mounts, is going to provide enough load over bumps to put the area that cracked under tension. The guard really doesn't look like it's designed to carry a load, hence the rubber support near the battery. This is all speculation of course.

Anyway stick to your guns, I don't see how TMC can get out of this.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Just spoke to the other bloke with the issue. Apparently the repair shop he consulted has had three other guys with aftermarket bars denied warranty. Don't have any specific info but this may be a little bigger than we first though. Time will tell I suppose.

I've sent him a link of this thread and invited him to join the forum if he is not already a member.

[bdee Member Find all posts View Profile Close bdee]

I cannot believe that TA would not come to the party even if they believe they were not completely at fault.The harm that these type posts do cannot be measured. Howmany people when researching cars use Google to check out any potential issues? For such a big company I cannot believe their attitude. If it were me and Toyota said we will fix this issue however believe these modifications were a contributing factor I do not believe there would be 8 pages of negative Press and everybody wins. The 10 kg is a joke shame Toyota shame.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

It's an expensive fix, and may wipe out their profits on prado sales if it is widespread. I can see TAs dilemma. They probably are screaming at TMC Japan about certain issues but they have to sell and support the cars they are given and Australia is only a small market with far tougher conditions than Europe for example. TMC probably pressure TA to reject warranty to maintain profits. Likewise the service manager has to be the one to deliver TAs verdict on claims even if they personally disagree with TA. And so it goes on. Somewhere in there they lose sight of the big picture and it takes something significant like loss of market share to force a change.

It surely wouldn't be a harmonious arrangement with dealer franchises which are individual companies, TA and then the parent TMC Japan. However this is too bad as consumers have rights.

There is merit in what you say. I don't want to slander the Prado because i really liked the car but when I was up north a lot of people asked me if I was happy with it. I tell the truth and show them the cracks. The result is 5 people wanting to move to a Prado no longer considering it. Then there is the people they tell and so on. This would not be the case if TA just fixed it.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

How is the bull bar causing the problem, I don't have one but I thought it mounts onto the ladder frame which has nothing to do with the guards?

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi guys

If you are up for a "BIG" read then this is an interesting one! Take note of the date of the thread.

I am aware that the FJ it is not a Prado but it is of the same DNA.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forum...-cracking.html

I believe that if you bolt extra weight directly to the front chassis then it in turn it loads the suspension / promotes extra twisting of the chassis (EG: Moguls) then transfers it through the rubber body mounts then the integral body tries to absorb it as the body is part of the total integral strength!... Problem is that from the windscreen to the forward of the vehicle there is not much strength in the front guards as appose to the rear of the body shell which provides/Promotes ultimate chassis strength promotion!

If the car has a frontal impact the engine/suspension "has" to fold underneath the car in-order to protect its occupants... EG: mechanical debris/scorching coolant & engine oil. I believe that if the front end is too ridged then it would be less viable to absorb energy and less of a guarantee of the components folding away from the occupants.

I am aware that the vehicle is superposed to be within GVM (10kg is a #iss take) but if more weight is on the front end (Much less integral overall body strength) as appose to the rear then this may cause more chassis twisting as appose to where the rear of the vehicle gains more integral strength from both the main body shell and more flexible rear live axle.

The less energy that is absorbed, the more is transferred to the occupants! That has to be bad!... So i guess the is limits around the crumple zone!

Just my thoughts!

Cheers

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Skywalker, that is the essence of the 'pendulum' theory I described earlier inthe thread. It can't be that hard to design front crumple zone that is compatible with steel bars. They did it on the 100, 70s, 200, Pajero and virtually every 4x4 ute on the market. It's nonsense.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Did you say earlier you fitted the ARB bar yourself? There was a fitting issue with the early 120s where the rubber body mount was being squashed by the fitting of the bar and this transferred the shock load to the panels rather than the rubber mount abosrbing it. ARB changed the fitting and seemed to solve the problem in the 120s.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

No, ARB fitted the bar. Tjm snorkel. I fitted everything else. ARB were very confident the bar was correctly fitted.

I found out today that public weighbridges only go in 20kg increments and round up. It goes from 1.44 to 1.46, but no 1.45. So I may be at 1.45 and it has rounded up but there is no way to tell unless you use a higher tech scales. Very very handy info.