Blocking EGR

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Please do share your theory with us

I have also come up with an idea ( could be the same) that will disable the egr and still be able to vent the turbo excess pressure.
If I blank the exhaust outlet on the engine block but leave the egr intake open, in theory everything will continue to work as normal without fooling the Ecu, excess pressure will be vented, and the egr valve will open when it wants but sucking the fresh air instead of exhaust fumes. that way the sensor operation will remain normal, and the most important Maf readings will remain unaffected which I think is very important for accurate Air fuel ratios.

Now I know this will not help in reducing the nox

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday xpro

Your idea sounds like it would work! You basically mean to say remove the heat exchange, fit blanking plate to cylinder head, block the vacuum hose for the heat-exchange venturi flap (If you haven't already blocked it!) then link both coolant hoses together from the heat-exchange so that the coolant flow is not compromised then let the EGR suck direct atmosphere air and dump boost directly into atmosphere. (Turbo dump would sound cool .... All 14psi of it! Lol).

It sounds like allot of work for what i have in mind with allot of engine components being removed then you would also have the problem of drawing UN-filtered air with possibility's of water congestion. (Or making a filter which means even more work!). Not sure if it would look good for rego but it might work!

The idea that i have in my mined is allot simpler and allot less work involved without removing any parts at all

There is 6 x Electronic Vacuum solenoids! 1 x controls engine mounts, 2 x control the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), 1 x Heat-exchange venturi, 2 x Inlet Manifold variable Venturi. All of these solenoids get there vacuum from the engines vacuum pump and all are controlled by the ECU. Not forgetting the variable switch that sits on top of the EGR valve that is also monitored by the ECU

There is also the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor, 1 x Air-temp sensor (On the inter-cooler) & 1 x turbo press sensor (Bolted to the inter-cooler) and all of these need to be considered.

All of the above is not of concern to me at the moment but what would concern me is that the MAF sensor and the air temp sensor would be sending current air temps to the ECU (In conjunction with fuel and coolant temps) for the appropriate fuel ratio's including cruising and low rpm loads but there would be a much cooler and higher volume of air getting into the engine further down stream (EGR valve drawing atmosphere) if the above mod was carried out.

I am aware that if you reduce fuel volume on diesels it cools temps but it would also reduce power. ("Also" Same fuel more oxygen gives higher combustion temps). Contradiction to the ECU's calculations.

We can not forget that the ECU was programmed & mapped with the exhaust omissions in mind to suppress high temps and NoX on cruising etc and if it was to be replaced with cold oxygen (Appose to exhaust gases) that would probably change all of those variables and actually increase cruising temps much higher.

The idea that i have in mind is with the intention of what temps the ECU receives is the air temps the engine will get. Obviously cruise temps will still increase hopefully without the exhaust gases and not drawing atmosphere down-stream without the radical variables as the above would cause.

Providing that my theory will work it will mean no pulling the engine apart and not drawing exhaust gases but still being able to dump the turbo boost via the exhaust.

The idea is so simple it might be too good to be true!

Happy new year to all

Cheers

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi guys

Where do i start??

I suppose i'd better start by sharing what i "thought" was a good thought

My original plan (in theory) was to mirror the EGR valve with a second EGR valve EG: get an old EGR valve then put both of the two vacuum hoses and the sensor with the wiring from the original then connect them onto the dummy EGR to mirror its original actions.

Once i had done this (In theory) i was then going to only bridge the hose from the dummy EGR back to the original that operated the turbo dump process only but to not connect the second hose that would operate the valve for the EGR on engine cruise or low engine loads to draw in exhaust gases.

This in theory would have fooled the ECU into thinking that the EGR valve was functioning properly and then only allow the original valve to open on turbo dump only and allow the dummy valve to open on both the turbo dump & the cruise cycle etc.

This in turn would have had no fault codes, No radical air intake down stream ahead of original sensor inputs, No possibilities of foul air or water congestion, No turbo dumping into atmosphere and no recirculation of the EGR gases back into the engine!

That all seemed awesome & toooo easy in theory when it "WAS" a theory!

Once i started to check the functions of those 6 x electronically controlled vacuum solenoids my theory quickly got torn apart!

REASON: from what i can see from the vacuum line outlay (Correct me if i am wrong as i am semi guessing) 4 x of the 6 x electronic solenoids provide vacuum. The other 2 dump vacuum. (All 6 x solenoids also have blow-by valves on top).

Four that provide vacuum and are commanded by the ECU.

1 x both engine mounts.

1 x Heat-exchange venturi flaps for the EGR & turbo dump.

1 x Variable venturi for inlet manifold (Turns 8 x ports into 4 on low engine loads), Accompanied by the variable turbo.

1 x EGR and turbo dump (Also has a surge valve fitted inline to the valve)

Two that dump vacuum commanded by the ECU.

1 x Variable venturi for inlet manifold (Turns 8 x ports into 4 on low engine loads).

1 x EGR AND turbo dump.

There is also a hose from the intake housing to the manifold boost pressure switch which helps the ECU to decide what to do with the above solenoids.

BOTTOM LINE!!! The solenoid that is bolted to the intake housing provides vacuum to the left connection of the EGR valve & the right connection supplies that same vacuum to a single dump solenoid on the same circuit....... Not possible to override the single operation of the "turbo dumping" process and by-passing the EGR cycle.

Is there anyone else with a theory that could work?? Lol.

I think the only thing i have learned from this theory apart from the fact that it wont work is that i am now one step closer to understanding emission laws with the 1KD-D4D Lol.

Cheers

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Good Afternoon,

Wow that was a good idea, i never tought of that tbh.
Now the two vacum pipes that run trough the egr valve,just underneath the egr lift sensor, they somehow seem to be connected , because if you disconnect one, the other one will not work either, atleast thats the case on my car.
If the
I will put up some pictures of my egr system just so we dont get confused, as i believe there is two models available, one with vacum operated flap located on the egr cooler and one without it.

Im also working on my egr and have developed a system that in thoery should work 99%, without interupting the sensor operations, not illegal but it will stop the egr from cloging up.
I have got some parts from local scrapyard that i will use for experiment, and that way i`ll be able to keep my original parts if the things dont work out.
I will update this thread with pictures and hopefully some good news when i have everything installed.

Thanks

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday xpro

What year model Prado do you have as doesn't show in your profile?

If it is the 1KD-D4D then you cant by-pass the EGR as those 2 x vacuum hoses on top of the EGR are actually connected to the same port on the EGR its self and both cycles are controlled by 2 x electronic vacuum solenoids. Hence you can not run one cycle without the other

Cheers

PS xpro

I think you are mistaking my explanation of the EGR valve with the "also mentioned" variable venturi that also operates & closes 4 of the 8 ports between the cylinder head & the inlet manifold (Not applicable with the 1KZ) which are also controlled by two electronic vacuum solenoids. these close 4 0f the 8 ports to help produce a higher torque curve on low engine operation in conjunction with everything else on the engine. Lol

There is also a variable motor (3 x wires) on the intake housing (big black motor) which is also electronically controlled by the ECU to close the butter-fly flap (Not completely) to help produce higher manifold pressures on cruise to help draw in the EGR gases. It also closes that butterfly completely when turning the engine off to help stop the engine from "running on" (Starves intake of oxygen to make sure it stalls immediately without the juddering and thumping run-on).

Diesels engines in general do not need a butterfly flap like petrol engines but the new high tech diesels use this for EGR and smooth engine stall.

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Hi All,

@Skywalkerrun:

I also have a 2005 1kd-FTV model prado indeed.

Here is a brief explanation in pictures of my design, i havent fitted it yet, i was waiting on the egr and cooler gaskets,and some pipeing to arrive
As you can see from the pictures, i will be blocking off the exhaust port on the engine block to stop the fumes going back in, but instead i will weld another pipe onto the egr cooler on the elbow section which will allow fresh air to be drawn in when the egr valve is operating, and so allowing all the sensor to work perfectly normal.
There will be a small airbox fitted which will filter the drawn air and also take in the turbo dump and supress some of the turbo whooshh, if there will be any, 14psi is no a lot. Im hoping this will work ok, as none of the sensors will be affected that way and most important MAF readings will be as normal.
The only disadvantage will be increased NOX values ( i dont care... ) and the combustion temps might be higher. Now regards the combustion temps,technicaly when the engine is under load, the Egr valve is closed and thats when the combustion temps would be at their peak, but when on cruise egr valve is open and temps go down,by how much i dont know, but i dont think that will be a problem.
Thats about it, im not gona go any further, im not an expert with diesel engines, but im tuning and rebuilding Lancer evos for the last 6 years so i have a partial idea on how it works.



Fingers crossed, and if this doesnt work im giving up and selling the cruiser(:

cheers

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday xpro

The early model EGR system looks very similar to here in oz but your model doesn't have the switching ports on the heat exchange. (Possibly some other minor differences in technology also on the newer models).

I do believe your theory will work ("It has too") as i also believe it would also work on the 1KD's down here in Australia but i am not sure on how the combustion temps would fair under constant heavy loads (Towing) or long cruising periods as i would be using a world of guessing given that i could not possibly know how the ECU is mapped.

I am excited at what your outcome will be and i reckon you will get better fuel consumption/more responsive engine and a lot less engine oil contamination from the sooty emissions being re-congested by the engine. (I'm sure id be feeling sick if made to re-digest my expelled crap!) Not forgetting the zero fouling of the engine intake manifold. Yeah!!

An exhaust temp probe would be a good guarantee against keeping an eye on high engine temps

Keep us all up-dated on the outcome as i am sure it will work!..... (Did i tell you I'm excited?)

Cheers

PS those Mitsubishi Lancer evo's haul-ass

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

G'day John

The catch-can does definitely work as I have made one for my car and it works just as well for both the petrol and diesel engines as "ALL" 4stroke engines have a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation). And yes i did say that it will "HELP" towards reducing the fowling of the intake manifold on the 1KD-D4D's

This link. Paragraph "11" i myself quoted: http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post308262

As the 1KZ does have the advantage over the 1KD concerning the simplicity of blocking the EGR the 1KD will "always" have the extra power/torque curve and fuel consumption advantage over the 1KZ (Hence 10,000km service intervals).

I personally love the variable vain turbo! (Less turbo lag low down) variable Vain or conventional turbo they are both exposed to exhaust soot and the Prado 1KD is not a Cummings engine and the turbo is a tad some-what smaller on the Prado?

It will also only be a mater of time before the injector issue will be sorted as ALL car manufacturers are having the same issue with there common rail injectors and the fuel sulfur levels has already dropped from 50ppm to 10ppm (Parts Per Million) in the past 3yrs. The fuel refinery's increase there cetain levels in diesel fuel to 50+ by simply adding additives to the fuel.

I do believe that the injector problem lies mostly with the high pressures that the injectors have to endure. Let's not also forget that Europe has had better fuel for a long while and still suffered the same fate as Australia so we should not focus injector issues entirely on the fuel.

The 1KD as you know is not as prone to blowing head gaskets like the 1KZ and the twin cam 4 valves per cylinder on the 1KD is better than a 2 valves per cylinder single cam 1KZ. The 1KD also has 8 intake ports and is variable to 4 at that! 1KZ only has 4 intake ports.

I remember when electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection was first becoming popular in the UK and the old school mechanics (Carbie/Points/Distributor etc) at that time hated them because of the new more sophisticated technology that had to be learned in order to understand and diagnose them! Is this the case with the 1KZ?

Euro5 engines are already on there way to Australia (Both truck and light vehicle) and they give even more power and more fuel efficient in smaller engine sizes. (Can't wait!).

I am aware that the new more sophisticated engines are more of a pain to diagnose and repair (and more Expensive) than the older engines for the average home mechanic but that is the way it is and it can not be stopped. So as a mechanic/technician you just have to keep-up with technology in-order to stay in the race!

If a rally car driver or a race car driver did not chase technology then they would simply loose the race with there competitors!

I hope the today's mechanics don't rely soley on a scan tool for error codes or they will be stuffed! Lol

Cheers

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday ##########

"I can't help myself" As well!

"Firstly" Who threw this thread off topic? Mmmmmm? (We all thought "BLOCKING EGR" when clicked the freakin link).

"Secondly" Wow!! You must love and trust your "REP" @ CASTROL!! (We "ALL" love reps) Only time will tell on that one?

As the new oil's become more popular (When the new generation Euro engines pour through "And they will Cos the Government say so!) it will also become cheaper! (Maybe?). Also looks like my next vehicle could be a MAZDA. (NOT!) Even more power/Torque/economy than the 1KD-D4D! Lol...... Makes the 1KZ look even more under powered and out-dated!! (Nothing personal to all yo 1KZ owners! Me an Roo having some fun!). Lol

How long as Euro5 been around in Europe? ....... You are so not going to like Euro6! Lol.

Times are moving forward so you better learn the new anal Euro tech before someone does some real damage! Lol (Imagine what damage would a cure if someone designed a chip to disarm the injector for the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).

Quote: ##########! I've forgotten one thing. The AMC head with everything including the camshaft, head bolts, head gasket plus misc including labour on the 1KZ-TE for that repair, comes in at around the $4100.00 mark.

Reply: Wow!! "$4100.00 mark" for an head gasket issue on the "old" 1KZ! + up-to an extra $780.00 "IF" you want to change injectors/Glow plugs!.... But wait theres more!! .... Maybe an extra $140 depending on which 1KZ cyl head you have!

I think given that there is mostly a cold knock on the 1KD-D4D and possibly less than a 1% chance of dropping a piston or head gasket of total sales world wide on the 1KD-D4D + more torque/Power/fuel consumption! personally i would take the punt on the injectors of the 1KD-D4D as i did. (Blocking EGR not included) Teh he.

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post322646

I went ahead and changed them for peace of mined even thou i was still getting 8Ltr per hundred. (Diving heavy foot).

Ignoring this fact that there is constant improvement with the injectors (3rd Gen) and fuel quality (1KZ issue will remain and stay) and the number of D4D's with 120k+ still running around with original injectors. Can you get the hard numbers to back up your statement of "every 100,000 kms if they last" as i am sure there is "allot" of D4D owners that would like you to share these facts rather than have you pulling numbers on your say-so! (This forum is not world stats).

Cheers

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Not sure what this is all about (didnt have time to read it all) but my head on my 1KZ 01 grande Prado cracked at 103k, Always serviced by the book, and then oil n filter done every 5, running genuine coolant all that stuff, never towed anything heavy, never overheated in any way, and when we were away with PP in 2010 at the GTG is when it went. The first sign was when I checked the overflow bottle noticed it was low, very unusual, never moved normally. Filled it up to the full mark and drove home. Checked along the way and was up near the top, thought well yeah its warm its just the cap opening up letting the pressure out, Got home checked the next morning, down a bit again. Filled her up gave it a flogging down the M4, water spitting on screen. pulled up opened bonnet, overflow full and over flowing, dropping down and getting sprayed by wheel bit coming outside the guard and just spitting on windscreen, pressure tested it, wouldnt show nothing, drove to and from work 18k round trip for 2 weeks no movement in guage, level in overflow at the full mark, scratching my head did another run down the M4 giving it some again, same symptoms again, obviously when it got worked hard the crack was opening up. Ok took to mates workshop new head ordered (not from toyota) all up 4g no mates discount, purely the head and associated gaskets, every thing else eg injectors and things put back in plus obviously labour......Cheers steve

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

Just throwing an idea in here...

Ok back on topic.
I must preface this by saying I don't own a 1KD engine and this may not work, but I am a diesel mechanic.

Has any of the thinkers in this thread considered just removing the intake butterfly flap? It'll remove the overrun pressure differential in the manifold and hence the flow of exhaust gas into the intake. There would be some EGR but it should be drastically reduced. It also theoretically may reduce the conditions where the turbo goes into overboost and need to dump pressure back to the exhaust via the EGR valve. Not that removing it would affect that process from happening.

If the butterfly is similar to the one fitted to a 1KZ then it is possible to remove the screws from the flap/spindle and refit it later if the mod doesn't work as planned. You would have to drill the heads off the screws and remove the threaded portion (the ends are peened over). See MickL's thread on it (for the 1KZ) here
There is a downside to removing it as mentioned in the link, although I have done the mod and the shutdown shudder doesn't bother me at all.

I'm happy to be shot down in flames if I'm wrong. Thoughts?

Ades

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Hi the Roo, yeah exactly why we didnt get a toyota head as my mechanic and myself spent days on the phone checking everything out and toyota still had the same part number from day one so I thought its not a superseded part number and no-one from toyota could tell me wether they had modified the head so yes we got one from another source (not ebay) come from Melbourne, was all good when done and so far is still going strong with the new owner..Cheers Steve

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

@ adrian5800,
yes i have removing the intake butterfly, on the 2009 kdj120 D4D Diesel engine, in same time blocking
the the egr inlet channel , but the the error code 400 comes back.
...removing the intake butterfly, is not the solution.
my next project blocking egr channel, and manipulate air flow meter in the same time at working egr valve

Sorry for my english, and greetings from Austria

Yeah but how about testing with the butterfly removed and without the EGR blocked? Removing the butterfly alone shouldn't trigger a P0400 code (EGR position sensor valve out of position)

And your english is probably better than mine.. (and definitely better than my Austrian!)

Ades

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

I can't sleep, it's so bloody hot at night here in Brisbane at the moment. Yes Adrian, that mod would be the best approach. Here's the thing though, in most states, forward thinking ones anyway, you have a road worthy every 12 months. Makes it safer on the roads, at least from a mechanical perspective. Here in Queensland, to do with trucks anyway, they are probably going to start looking at the exhaust gases coming out of the exhaust more closely then they do now. This inspection for trucks as you probably know is very six months. Any modifications to the EGR system they now can pick that up through the gases when the inspections are carried out. Then they (Queensland Transport) issue you with a defect notice and you have to go and get it fixed and then go back for another inspection which cost you more money. If it is found that you have modified the EGR system, the fines are now pretty steep. OK, this is for trucks, but I think it's only a matter of time before they start looking at this in all diesels especially the states where there is 12 months road worthys. So the humble catch can really is the go because it is legal.
Steve and anyone out there that has problems with the head on the 1KZ, don't use the Toyota head because the casting in this product is not up to scatch, mainly the materials used, the aluminium. This is the reason for this happening (cracked heads) in the first place and why it is so hit and miss, because of the percent of recycled materials used when the casting happens.
The aftermarket heads like the AMC brand are cast out of pure new aluminium which makes the difference. No more cracked heads unless you have a high temperature overheat.
The Roo.

Hi Roo
You aren't going to get roadside checks on emissions for passenger cars like you may (your words) do for heavy vehicles passing through checking stations. Even for future safety checks (not that there have been any rumours of that going to happen any time soon) you aren't going to get inspectors removing an intake to see if modifications have taken place. BTW I'm also an RTA approved heavy and light vehicle inspector.

Ades

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday dhjupi in Austria

If you block the EGR port (1KD-D4D) on the cylinder head where the heat-exchange bolts on "YOU WILL" get an error code because the turbo has no-way of dumping its turbo boost! (Does not apply to the 1KZ).

The point where the exhaust gasses are drawn into the manifold (Your first picture http://www7.picfront.org/picture/qBI.../FT_5921kl.JPG) is "also" the very same valve that the turbo boost pressure has to be dumped back into the exhaust system on the 1KD-D4D engines.

Read the link below and it will make sense.

Full explanation here http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post308262

Also: When adrian5800 explained about removing the the butterfly he actually meant to remove the screws to remove the butterfly disk completely! your picture shows only screws removed and not the butterfly disc?

As adrian5800 explained! by removing the butterfly flap it will drop the manifold pressure on cruising speed and low engine loads. This will reduce the amount of exhaust gases being sucked back into the engine because of low manifold pressure (I personally have never tried this but it will happen because diesels are very poor at producing vacuum). (This is 1 of 2 reasons why the butterfly flap is installed on the diesel engine!).

If you remove the butterfly flap your engine "Will" jump-around when you turn the engine off! (Possibly "NOT-FRIENDLY" to the engine mounts. (They would be expensive to replace!).

Cheers

PS. If you look in the top right hand side of your first picture of the EGR you will see a small tube. this is the port to the manifold pressure switch (Good point to latch on a turbo boost gauge as this is where the true manifold pressure is).