Grande Airbag Retaining after a Lift

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

I think the Bilstein at 580mm extended, compared to 575mm extended for the standard shock is a good compromise here.

Spot on Peter, just measured mine, exactly 575mm

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The question now is... what is the damping rate of the OEM shocks in Sport mode compared to Bilsteins? I guess if the Bilsteins have a shorter closed length, then you will get better articulation.

The next question then is... if the height settings are changed by adding or subtracting air pressure from the airbags, will the amount of articulation change depending on height settiing or are the airbags linked 'pneumatically'?

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

The question now is... what is the damping rate of the OEM shocks in Sport mode compared to Bilsteins? I guess if the Bilsteins have a shorter closed length, then you will get better articulation.

The next question then is... if the height settings are changed by adding or subtracting air pressure from the airbags, will the amount of articulation change depending on height settiing or are the airbags linked 'pneumatically'?

With the rear, I dont think its the amount of articulation so much as the quality since they have a decent amount of travel already.
The better spring just gets you in a different part of the travel and holds things more level.
Once you pump the airbags up to 825mm, that also firms things up a bit like a firmer spring.
Airbags are not linked, they are independent and will compensate for varying loads either side.
Front is different though, it can take longer travel.

[Way2go Member Find all posts View Profile Close Way2go]

Ive found that from day to day it can vary by 10mm, is anybody elses like that?

Measured mine yesterday when I got home - 780mm.

Measured again today when I got home - 810mm.

Go figure......

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Peter, Is this where you have left the rear? i.e. with the 16.5mm spacers? or was this exercise purely in the name of science?

No Craig, purely experimental. I actually fitted a variety of combinations of spacers to see what lift I could get and then returned it to standard. I didn't want to risk playing around with the standard adjuster, and returning the rear back to standard was much easier this way. All was good until I dropped a spacer between the fuel tank and bash plate, that was a bugger to remove. This is with 7mm spacers for about 20mm lift:

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

Measured mine yesterday when I got home - 780mm.

Measured again today when I got home - 810mm.

Go figure......

Crickey...................30mm...............thats a huge difference!

I can get 5-10 at worst but not more.

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

OKey dokey, Im just about ready to take the plunge

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Measured mine yesterday when I got home - 780mm.

Measured again today when I got home - 810mm.

Go figure......

Mine sometimes release some air pressure after shutdown. I assume this is a thermal release to relieve excess pressure as a result of heat expansion. If yours don't do it, that might account for some variation. If I also find that if I cycle the height control up or down, when I return it to the normal setting it always goes back to the normal ride height.

Also, if there is some variation in setting between the left and right side height adjustors it is sensed as a voltage difference between the limit switches and could account for some height variation.

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

OK, so the lift is done after much deliberation and got a chance to give it a hard time.
Ive gone with the Tough Dog adjustables.
I know they arent popular and people have strong opinions about them but got these specifically for a number of reasons.

1) The local service from "Mr Toughdog" himself is exceptional and only just down the road.
2) The dimensions to suit the Prado I had in mind were very specific and they were the only ones that fitted the bill exactly.
3) Adjustable which is an absolute gem to be able to do.
4) Suited the airbag perfectly with a total of about 10mm in extra extension WITHOUT MODS.
5) Importantly, EVERY person I spoke to who has the current gen of Tough Dog shock is wrapped in them without a single issue.

So, I took it out yesterday and first thing I wanted to prove was I was going to loose an airbag.

Rear with spacers for the sensors sit at 825mm with 65-70mm left.


Front using TDC974H springs sitting at 790mm with a massive 100mm of travel left which is significantly more than all the other brands.



Rear wheel is off the ground



No sign of bags coming loose.

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

Different angle on max extension



I will be persuing the R clip sometime but there is no hurry I reckon with this combo.

Im wrapped in the result actually and the adjustment works brilliantly.

Perfect height combo for me,
790 front with max extension at 890 (before = 735 and 845)
825 rear with max extension at 900 (before = 790 and 890)

Very happy and the ride is awesome

[Way2go Member Find all posts View Profile Close Way2go]

Excellent job Marc!

I've basically got to the point where I've decided on Kings KTFR-101HD springs for the front. I currently have 865mm at full droop with the Billies on the middle circlip, and the front is currently sitting at 740mm. So I'm figuring I can go to the 800mm (a nice 60mm raise over current) or so with sufficient droop remaining.

Just need to find someone who has the KTFR-101HDs with an ARB bar, winch and dual batteries to confirm the ride is good and that the resulting measurements are around the 800mm mark.....

Maybe then I'll look at getting them fitted in a couple of weeks when the vehicle is in for its next service.

(What's actually involved in getting the spacers in the rear? Looks like an easy job, but do you require new bolts, or use the current ones, etc.)

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

(What's actually involved in getting the spacers in the rear? Looks like an easy job, but do you require new bolts, or use the current ones, etc.)

Thanks mate

Easy as mate, 30 x 8mm HT bolts
SCA sells them in a pack of 4.

Just be carefull when undoing it not to let it drop so the potentiometer takes all the weight, they are apparently a little fragile so treat them carefully and keep them supported while you play around.

I used panel washers for a bigger area, but will machine some spacers when I get around to it.
The ratio is close to 3:1 so if you want 30mm, use a 10mm spacer.

Use some of this when you do it

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Nice one Marc, looking good with all that air under the guards! My local Opposite Lock recommended Tough Dog, they recently won best overall in a shock absorber comparison test in 4WD Action, Superior Engineering use them with their Grande lift kit and the Airbag Man recommends them for use with their airbags. I have also heard a couple of bad reports on them in the past, but as you said, no bad reports recently. Keep us posted on how they perform for you and how the ride and handling compare to the original springs and TEMS suspension.

Front using TDC974H springs sitting at 790mm with a massive 100mm of travel left which is significantly more than all the other brands.

Tough Dog struts are one of the longest struts available, 12mm longer than Bilstein and 19mm longer than the standard strut which would theoretically give you 38mm more droop than the standard strut. You've ended up with 45mm more droop than a standard strut, a great result!

Do you know the specs for the TDC974H springs? I assume they are a medium rather than heavy duty spring?

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

Hi Peter
Thanks, Im very happy with the ride and handling at the moment.
Dont remember the exact specs on the springs but they are MEDIUM.
Cheers

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

To summarise the available solutions for the Grande airbag retaining problem:

1 - Airbag Man airbag replacement kit, part number OA6011 (longer airbag)
This is probably the best solution and allows safe fitment of longer shocks (up to 625mm extended), but is also the most expensive at $990 + fitting

2 - Captive retainer pin as suggested by 1coolbanana (stops airbag from unseating by captive pin)
A good compromise and allows easy removal of airbag if need be.

3 - Welding a retainer solution as used by Auto-Craft (welding the airbag base pin to the spring seat)
A permanent solution that works well but does not allow for easy removal of the air bag.

4 - 30mm aluminium spacer under rear airbag as used by Opposite Lock South Sydney (adds 30mm to length of standard airbag)
Seems a reasonable solution and should allow a shock of about 35mm longer than standard (approx 610mm extended length)