The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

[150Pete Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 150Pete]

Your install looks great, and you did it for a great price too.

I looked up the description for the Piranha battery box, and it described the battery for the Prado box, as being the bigger version of your battery. I think that their recommended battery would hit piping, and also, that would weigh an extra few kg. Your battery retails for $200 too, so for $135, you've done great. I like your choice of battery too.

Cheers MelbournePark
The bigger battery you speak of May be the one to suit the disel (300mm), mine is v6 petrol and restricted by P/S res, I got the battery from More Products in Bayswater Vic, 1/13 Gatwick Rd, Bayswater N VIC 3153 (03) 9735 9118, ask for Kevin, they are company that supply caravan supplies, they also have the bigger battery (300mm, 100 A/H) to suit the disel Prado for $142.00 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251391191...84.m1423.l2649

[MelbournePark Member Find all posts View Profile Close MelbournePark]

Thanks Pete. In my battery investigations, I checked a price with someone who services my cars, and he said that he could only sell car batteries at a good discount, and he recommended that the place to buy such batteries was from a caravan place. Which is where you got yours. As far as the diesel goes, I think the space restrictions due to the hoses are just as severe in the diesel as they are in the petrol. I've been looking at camper trailers and I noted that some use AC Delco batteries, they have a good range which seem not to be dual, but are orientated as just deep cycle.

I think with Exide (the battery specified in the Piranha battery holder specs), Exide seem to have a new range now of leisure cycle batteries, many of which seem more dual than purely deep cycle. Two that might fit a Prado well are the following:
AGM LCG24-92 20.2kg 260mm 92AH
Calc LCS24-86 19kg 260mm 86AH

Those both are 260mm long, so they may fit without hitting the pipes. They are pretty light at 20 and 19kg too. And their Amp hours sound good at 86 and 92. The Calc one would compete probably with a Marine Pro battery (much mentioned on this thread).

I wonder now about AGM with under bonnet temperatures, and price performance. Many reports say that AGM doesn't like heat. While AGM lasts longer, perhaps its not the best getting blasted by engine heat and even turbo radiated heat inside a diesel engine bay? With the price premium for AGM, I now suspect a battery likes yours is the conservative choice.

I suspect too that high AH are not such a good thing, despite us all wanting it! I suspect for a spare battery to run a fridge etc from the front of a Prado, a deep cycle is what you want but then a proper deep cycle has constant thick lead plates (hence the poor starting power). The problem with thick plates is that the battery gets heavy relative to its Amp Hour rating.

So while I listed those Exides above as having very high Amp Hour for their weight, I guess that must really mean and ignoring technical improvements (and that does still happen), that a higher Amp Hour per kg must mean that lead plates must be thinner. Hence they will not last as long if you cycle them a lot.

So really - for long life and better cycling ability, perhaps its best to look for a battery that is 260mm, weighs up to lets say 22kg (in respect of the potential for a risk of going heavier in a Prado) and that does not have many AH. I've criticised the Optimas here but for AGMs, they fit that bill - they are heavy for their AH capacity. But their high cranking amps makes me think there are better choices ... and some makers publish how thick their plates are. For AGMs though, such batteries are quite costly.

So value wise I think something likes yours makes more sense at $135, you can't go wrong as long as it is built to takes shocks, and I think the caravan suppliers would know true deep cycles batteries and what is the best value going.

[150Pete Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 150Pete]

Thanks Pete. In my battery investigations, I checked a price with someone who services my cars, and he said that he could only sell car batteries at a good discount, and he recommended that the place to buy such batteries was from a caravan place. Which is where you got yours. As far as the diesel goes, I think the space restrictions due to the hoses are just as severe in the diesel as they are in the petrol. I've been looking at camper trailers and I noted that some use AC Delco batteries, they have a good range which seem not to be dual, but are orientated as just deep cycle.

I think with Exide (the battery specified in the Piranha battery holder specs), Exide seem to have a new range now of leisure cycle batteries, many of which seem more dual than purely deep cycle. Two that might fit a Prado well are the following:
AGM LCG24-92 20.2kg 260mm 92AH
Calc LCS24-86 19kg 260mm 86AH

Those both are 260mm long, so they may fit without hitting the pipes. They are pretty light at 20 and 19kg too. And their Amp hours sound good at 86 and 92. The Calc one would compete probably with a Marine Pro battery (much mentioned on this thread).

I wonder now about AGM with under bonnet temperatures, and price performance. Many reports say that AGM doesn't like heat. While AGM lasts longer, perhaps its not the best getting blasted by engine heat and even turbo radiated heat inside a diesel engine bay? With the price premium for AGM, I now suspect a battery likes yours is the conservative choice.

I suspect too that high AH are not such a good thing, despite us all wanting it! I suspect for a spare battery to run a fridge etc from the front of a Prado, a deep cycle is what you want but then a proper deep cycle has constant thick lead plates (hence the poor starting power). The problem with thick plates is that the battery gets heavy relative to its Amp Hour rating.

So while I listed those Exides above as having very high Amp Hour for their weight, I guess that must really mean and ignoring technical improvements (and that does still happen), that a higher Amp Hour per kg must mean that lead plates must be thinner. Hence they will not last as long if you cycle them a lot.

So really - for long life and better cycling ability, perhaps its best to look for a battery that is 260mm, weighs up to lets say 22kg (in respect of the potential for a risk of going heavier in a Prado) and that does not have many AH. I've criticised the Optimas here but for AGMs, they fit that bill - they are heavy for their AH capacity. But their high cranking amps makes me think there are better choices ... and some makers publish how thick their plates are. For AGMs though, such batteries are quite costly.

So value wise I think something likes yours makes more sense at $135, you can't go wrong as long as it is built to takes shocks, and I think the caravan suppliers would know true deep cycles batteries and what is the best value going.

As far as the Exide battery that Piranha recommended to me for the Petrol model (260mm) @ $217.00, from what I have been told (battery world) the AC Delco one I ended up getting for $135 (82A/H) (battery world started @ $230, then got them down to $180 for the same battery) said it was the same as the Exide with a different sticker. As I'm not personally a battery expert, I just took their word.
As Far as AGM battery's go, I was advised by both Piranha & Battery world NOT to use under the bonnet, due to heat, as you already mentioned.
So I guess another option for you (if suits) would be just to locate the battery in the rear of the car and run your wiring to it from the front (maybe a small voltage drop over the distance) but you then could go AGM and as big as you can fit, no issue to weight in the front or AC pipes & trays etc.
So good luck, sure you'll make the correct choice based on your wants & needs. Cheers Pete

[Schneider Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Schneider]

For what it is worth, i just picked up the Exide LCS24-86 battery direct from Exide for $130. Not sure how it will go but I thought it was worth a try for that sort of money.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Ac delco. & excide. Makes me feel sick, the work failures comes to mind.

You should stick with century/yuasa & optima.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Guys, it is good to see you doing some research before laying down the cash but
batteries are a consumable, if you actually use the system in 4 to 5 years you'll
be looking at replacing them for reliability and they'll probably be down to around
the 50% capacity anyway unless your only going to discharge them to 80% SOC etc.

Just buy a good brand at a good price if you can, and get out there and use them.

As for cracks in guards, I know the roo advocates putting the battery in the back, others only using small batteries etc.

From my experience if you drive to the conditions, lower your tyres pressures etc you'll avoid the issue. Mate has over 120000Kms in a 120 having run both marines pros and Optimas on some of the worst roads in Australia with no issues. I have similar setup, Optima for crank and Marine Pro for aux with no issues, many members in 4X4 club same story, only one I know of who has had problems drives like a lunatic, won't lower his tyre pressures and has cracking in both guards.

Same guy has creases in both front guards which many suspect was caused by him jumping the car, his story is someone backed into his bull bar, funny that the bull bar isn't damaged.

[drivesafe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drivesafe]

The trick is not so much which battery but how you charge and use that battery.

I can remember when Leigh first posted up details of his FUSE and I was adamant that the lower voltage was fine, but was unaware of just how low the voltage dropped in the then new Toyotas.

LeighW's FUSE was a big benefit then and even now, with the voltage levels raised in the newer Toyotas, with Leigh’s FUSE, you can use any type of battery and get good charging and use results.

Personally, I use nothing but Optima Yellowtops but the cost does not suit all.

[Nightrod111 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nightrod111]

I just squeezed a 92AH Exide MSDC24 into my TD 150 prado. I needed to push the aircon pipe and bracket out a little, but it works!!
http://www.exidebatteries.com.au/bat...cycling/MSDC24

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Good info on the Exide, my current battery is 253mm wide so the Exide should fit. The auxiliary is 80ah and has never given problems running my fridge on long trips away.

I use the diode / fuse; both my batteries are now nearly 4 years old and going strong.

[MelbournePark Member Find all posts View Profile Close MelbournePark]

Guys, it is good to see you doing some research before laying down the cash but
batteries are a consumable, if you actually use the system in 4 to 5 years you'll
be looking at replacing them for reliability and they'll probably be down to around
the 50% capacity anyway unless your only going to discharge them to 80% SOC etc.

Just buy a good brand at a good price if you can, and get out there and use them.

As for cracks in guards, I know the roo advocates putting the battery in the back, others only using small batteries etc.

From my experience if you drive to the conditions, lower your tyres pressures etc you'll avoid the issue. Mate has over 120000Kms in a 120 having run both marines pros and Optimas on some of the worst roads in Australia with no issues. I have similar setup, Optima for crank and Marine Pro for aux with no issues, many members in 4X4 club same story, only one I know of who has had problems drives like a lunatic, won't lower his tyre pressures and has cracking in both guards.

Same guy has creases in both front guards which many suspect was caused by him jumping the car, his story is someone backed into his bull bar, funny that the bull bar isn't damaged.

OK, so 4-5 years. And it'll be 50%. And that's just for a starting battery.

We should all insist on getting $150 back from Toyota for pulling out our new crap factory supplied Panasonic batterity, and then putting in a Lithium replacement starting battery. Cost for a suitable one would be $450. Or less. Changeover would therefor be $300.

It would last over 12 years, maintain is life much better, weigh less than 3kg, provide under bonnet space, run better at much higher temps and not suffer sulphure issues, and would take charge several times quicker plus you could use more of its capacity for drain issues like fridges.

The thought that batteries are a consumable is a bit annoying! Because with Lithiums, many people might never have to change their battery. And if they did, a lady could do it, because they are so light - a Lithium starting battery providing 700CCA weighs under 3kg. And those 700CCA are more like 840 compared to a lead acid.

While manufacturers chase low fuel rates via weight reduction, its a shame they don't spend extra money and give us a decent Lithium standard and also save some weight. But they don't even do that with a hybrid car 's starter motor...

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

As I have written before, quite a few years ago Nickel Cadmium batteries were the
bees knees and everything else was going to be obsolete.

Then along came LIPO and everything else was going to become obsolete.

Now along comes LifePo4 and everything else is going to become obsolete.......

[craigm Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close craigm]

Pretty impressive spec's on the LifePo4 batteries Leigh. Just the price still hurts at the moment...

Not sure what the Battery equivalent the below chart refers to but whoa!

TECHNOLOGY COMPARISON CHART
TYPE	LITHIUM ION	AGM	LEAD ACID	GEL
Cycle Life	3000-5000	500 - 1000	300 - 500	500
Life Years	10+ YEARS	3 -5	2 - 4	2 - 4
Efficiency	98%	60 - 90%	40 - 60%	50- 70%
Continuous Amp Draw	200AMPS	25 amps (cont)	20 amps (cont)	25 amps (cont)
MAX Charge Rating	100AMPS	10 amps	5 amps	5 amps
Average Weight	15KG	30kg.	28kg	31kg
ROHS Compliant	YES	No	No	No

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Not saying the aren't but they were pretty impressive specs for the others
that have now faded into the back ground too.

Problems have also started to rear their heads with the newest new brutes, ask
Kimberly owners, and have a look a cell balancing issues.

[drivesafe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drivesafe]

Hi Craig and sorry mate but that comparison list is so erroneous that it is not a realistic comparison at all.

First off, by lead acid, do you mean WET CELL, because AGMs and GELs are all lead acid batteries.

Next, there are two groups of AGMs.

The first and most common is Standby types, like Fullriver, and these batteries have a constant charge current of 35% or in your comparison, 35 amps, not 10 amps.

The second type are genuine automotive grade AGMs, like OPTIMA and they have NO CHARGE CURRENT LIMIT. Thats a lot different to 10 amps, and I have personally charged 55Ah Optima Yellowtops with as much as 63 amps on numerous occasions and that equates to way higher than Lithium’s 100 amps.

As to age, well my oldest Optima Yellowtop is now 9 years old and has had a very hard life, yet still working fine.

The list also neglected to mention voltage tolerances.

Lithium have a maximum voltage tolerance of 14.6v and this should be lowered to under 13.8v once the battery is fully charged. Something that is not easily achieved when charging straight from an alternator.

Where as Standby type AGMs tolerate between 14.4v and 14.7, while automotive grade AGMs, again, like Optimas, will tolerate 15.1v

Wet Cell batteries will tolerate 15.5v during boost/equalisation charge cycles and 14.7v continuos voltages.

All new lead acid batteries, including all forms of AGMs will now safely tolerate being discharged down to 11.58v or 20% and a number can be discharged down to 10.5v or 0% but Lithiums can only be discharged down to 20% and you can not use voltage measurements to try to determine capacity with lithiums, making monitoring their capacity somewhat more complex and expensive.

While some Lithium batteries can be charged straight off the alternator, as long as the alternator voltage does not rise over their safe limit, but once the motor is turned off, the lithium batteries MUST BE separated from any lead acid batteries.

As above, not a very realistic comparison. Where did you get that info from

[craigm Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close craigm]

http://www.allpurposebatteries.com.a...roducts_id=333