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  • Originally posted by drivesafe View Post

    In the old days, the batteries were shipped dry and and the electrolyte came, pre mixed in plastic bottles.

    .
    Not just in the old days, caterpillar batteries still come that way.

    I must say that I find it hard to understand how people make such a simple system like a dual battery set up seem so complicated.

    I reckon a few people are over thinking things a bit. When I hook up my camper I actually have a triple battery system, all batteries are different, an optima blue top, a sealed AGM and the original crank battery in the camper. Add a redarc SBI12 and a booster diode and I've had no issues in 4 years, that's often running a fridge and a freezer plus lights and radios on our travels!

    Cheers Andrew
    [COLOR="#FF0000"]So Long and Thanks for all the Fish![/COLOR]

    [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3840-AJ-s-120-Prado]MY PRADO AND DIY CAMPER TRAILER[/url]

    [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3975-AJ-s-79-series-Cruiser-Ute]MY HZJ79 Landcrusier[/url]


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Comment


    • You can still buy many batteries that way, a lot of trucking companies will often keep a set of spare batteries sitting waiting, these are empty with acid in bottles waiting to be added. This is a great way to store a spare battery.
      [LEFT]Silver 150 Facelift
      TJM Bullbar, Lightforce Genisis Spots, Dual Battery System with bits from everyone, Powerful 4x4 slider/steps, Kaymar rear bar, "Genuine" Roof Racks, MSA Seatcovers, Dashmat, Tint, LED Interior Globes, Bridgestone D697s [/LEFT]

      Comment


      • Hi AJ120, it’s been about 8 years since I last bought a standard wet cell and that was supplied dry with the electrolyte in a plastic bottle.

        So they still supply batteries that way!

        Hi AussieAndy and yep a great way to be able to keep batteries in a new state till you need them.

        Comment


        • Yeah as Aussie Andy said it's a good way to keep spare batteries in stock, a crew I used to work for always had 2 Cat batteries and acid to go sitting spare as we were running around 10 units that used them. I gather they will last almost indefinitely until the acid is added.

          Personally I cant recall the last time I bought a wet cell, other than in a new car. I have always found I got better life out of sealed batteries and that's all I would buy now. The Prado Crank battery I have in the camper is a bit of a pain, it spills acid on rough roads, I sort of wish it would die and I could replace it with an Optima!

          Cheers Andrew
          [COLOR="#FF0000"]So Long and Thanks for all the Fish![/COLOR]

          [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3840-AJ-s-120-Prado]MY PRADO AND DIY CAMPER TRAILER[/url]

          [url=http://www.4wdadventurers.com/showthread.php?3975-AJ-s-79-series-Cruiser-Ute]MY HZJ79 Landcrusier[/url]


          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

          Comment


          • Originally posted by drivesafe View Post
            Mate, you are doing nothing more than playing with words.

            If a battery has 2% less “FLUID” it means it has 2% less H2O and 2% less Sulphuric Acid. The battery still has the same ratio.
            Well ... I don't think you are an expert. The manufacturer said that it put in reserves in that range of their batteries. You may call them bulldust, but not me. I said what the manufacturer claimed, and now, you are blaming me!!!

            You've also said the ratio is constant - obviously in a flooded, its never constant. The evaporate in various conditions, and also give off various other gases as well ... would you like a list?

            You say the ratio is constant - its not. So too the different alloys make a difference to the electrolyte side. All these effect different types of batteries differently. And in the same type of batteries, modern ones are a bit different. They haven't improved much when compared to Boyle's Law and the increase in processor chip power, but batteries of the same type have still got better if one is prepared to pay for a better battery.

            Comment


            • I don’t pretend to be an expert.

              When I want “EXPERT” advice, I go to the experts and in this case, that is the battery manufacturers themselves.

              Still not sure where you get your “EXPERT” advice from?

              Comment


              • Drivesafe - IMO my post was so damn long, you misread it. My fault for making a too long post.

                I should have cut it into three parts ...

                You thought I said top up with acid! That a manufacturer is describing that they put in reserves of acid to provide longer life in a particular deep cycle battery - to call that an error, means you must be an expert? I just quoted the manufacturer's claims!!
                MelbournePark
                Member
                Last edited by MelbournePark; 19-10-2014, 08:32 AM.

                Comment


                • And I have made mistake when comparing manufacturer stats too.

                  My saying that the Marine Pro 730 battery weight was wrong - at 24kg for its 100 AH dual marine maintenance free battery, that it should weigh around 31 kg - is wrong.

                  I did some more research, and found there are several other similar type batteries that are around 23-24 kg and have 95-100 AH (amp hr). It is likely that the weight of the Marine Pro 620 ( smaller but similar technology battery to the 730 model) is published at 24.1kg, and that is where the weight error would lie. The Marine Pro 620 would likely weigh around 18 to 19kg. I think the 730 model does weigh 24.1 kg after all. Apologies to those with Marine Pro 730s in the front of their Prados ...

                  I better alter my table as it would put the Marine Pro 730 very high up the AH v kg list.

                  As far as going to a manufacturer's - its not easy to get answers. Their data is be-fuddled quite often and there are errors. Like the weight of the Marine Pro 620 battery.

                  For instance, I contacted Exide over their ED2S battery.

                  It's a flooded battery (top up), but is described as rugged.

                  Its dimensions are 304 long, 173 wide, 233 high.

                  Its weight is 23kg. Its a cycle battery with heavy plates. A flooded one (that you top up).

                  Its claimed to have a reserve BCI level of 294. Many people use the reserve BCI as a good indicator of real battery capacity. That level is really high. For instance, the Marine Pro's BCI rating is very high, but it's 180. A lot less. And the AH rating is 150 AH. Which is also very high. So I rang Exide, several times, and only the girl reading the computer could simply read that same stats that are published. I said are you sure its 12 volts? They say yes, it is ... so I rang for a price, and the area manager said to my person - "you won't get 150 AH out of that battery. Its best to use a different one."

                  I still think the stats for that produce are wrong. 150 AH deep cycles normally weigh a lot more, and that sounds like a 6V to me ... maybe the weight stats are wrong though? http://www.exidebatteries.com.au/bat...l-cycling/ED2S

                  Comment


                  • Hi again MP, and in your first statement, you implied that battery manufacturers deliberately increase the acid rations in their batteries.

                    Originally posted by MelbournePark View Post
                    I have noted too that with "wet" open deep cycle batteries, makers will put in more acid than is necessary, so that the battery lasts longer.
                    This is not so, but then, when it was pointed out to you that manufacturers do not increase acid levels, you replied with this.

                    Originally posted by MelbournePark View Post
                    You've also said the ratio is constant - obviously in a flooded, its never constant. The evaporate in various conditions, and also give off various other gases as well ... would you like a list?

                    You say the ratio is constant - its not.
                    Maintaining the electrolyte level by topping up the battery cells with WATER, is the battery OWNERS responsibility and has absolutely nothing to do with allegations that manufacturers tamper with the acid levels.

                    I,m not wasting my time and everybody else’s time by going round and round in circles with you.

                    Like everybody else, you can find the correct info on battery manufacturer’s web sites.

                    Have a nice day MP
                    drivesafe
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by drivesafe; 19-10-2014, 03:51 PM. Reason: typo correction

                    Comment


                    • drivesafe, if I had said liquid, instead of acid, would you be happy? Most people refer to the contents of a flooded lead acid battery, as having lead and acid. You know ... copper and zinc in a lemon ... have a few in series, and you can light an LED. A typical battery is lead and acid man ... don't you get it?

                      So, I said acid ... And IMO, if a manufacturer put in more acid (liquid then) into a battery, it would work. It might give a reserve, to extend the battery life. That's what they claimed. The maker made the claim, not me. I am not an expert, and neither are you. Perhaps its the marketing blurb. And I never said that the ratios were fixed in a flooded battery. You said that, not me, and IMO you said it because you mis-understand what I was saying.

                      And get real ... its not a big deal. Maybe I'll look up the quotation, and you can ring the manufacturer and check up the validity of their claims? Good luck on doing that though ...
                      MelbournePark
                      Member
                      Last edited by MelbournePark; 19-10-2014, 08:42 PM.

                      Comment


                      • And further drive safe - the reason batteries typically wear out is due to the plate issues. The acid doesn't leave the battery. So there's no point topping up with acid - plus its dangerous stuff and if that was part of battery maintenance, the lead acid battery would look quite different and be a lot more expensive.

                        Putting in extra acid yourself would not achieve a chemical benefit, and would likely corrode things (obviously not pure lead because that is not effected).

                        And battery acid and hence specific gravity varies between manufacturers and their individual products. There's a considerable range. Do you get it? Battery acid is not fixed at at 35%, or even the specific gravity.

                        I myself have had stratification cause battery failure - IMO. My wife used to drop my son off at the train which was a two minutes away. The Lexus drains heaps of energy, and IMO the battery never got charged properly. The battery tested OK with a meter battery tester (Lexus wouldn't supply a new one), but it was no good. At the bottom of a battery, you can get denser more acidic fluid - the stratification term. Short runs with the electric seaters going full bore, the radio and all the fans going, all the cameras and screens - and a very short trip - the perfect stratification scenario. She'd come back and park the car and it would sit until the next day. So the denser acid would have sat down there. And more to the point, the battery was several years old.

                        So even inside a battery, the acid level can get uneven. It should be kept even. By properly charging. I got around that issue IMO by putting in an Optima. Because its AGM, it won't stratify. And you can sit there for ages with the engine off and using your computer and phone, and not damage the battery, because an Optima is more than a starting battery. Its also bad for an engine to do short runs, so thank goodness that all stopped! It now gets longer runs. And I do charge the Optima now and then with a fancy charger. I'm not sure though whether the alternator provides the Optima with enough volts - maybe it doesn't. Hmmm
                        MelbournePark
                        Member
                        Last edited by MelbournePark; 20-10-2014, 08:25 AM.

                        Comment


                        • This thread is way off topic..
                          Back on track please.

                          Comment


                          • Hi
                            this is my first post, so if I've F#@ked up, or placed in the wrong place, sorry, let me know.
                            I haven't seen a lot of V6 Petrol 150 Dual Battery set ups on here, and as I just did my own over the week end I though I would share, maybe someone will find it helpful (or amusing)

                            Battery: AC Delco HCM24SMF 82 A/H, $135.00
                            Tray: Piranha BTP150P, approx. $190.00 (I was originally against this tray only due to price, but ended up using it, was very easy to install)
                            Management system: Piranha DBE140S, Inc. 6 pole fuse block
                            Wiring loom: Piranha 4 meters
                            all up Inc. volt meter, USB, connecters/terminals wires, etc. was approx. $600

                            I have run power to the rear for fridge, lights etc. from fuse block, also run power to dash for USB, UHF & Volt meter.
                            I ran directly from battery (fused) to Anderson plug at towbar.
                            all in all happy with the set up, would have liked a bigger A/H battery, but was restricted being a petrol and having the power steering res to deal with.

                            Not sure if I did the upload of the photos correctly?? Happy for advise if there's any easier way.

                            http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/pe...%20150%20Prado
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by 150Pete; 21-10-2014, 06:24 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Your install looks great, and you did it for a great price too.

                              I looked up the description for the Piranha battery box, and it described the battery for the Prado box, as being the bigger version of your battery. I think that their recommended battery would hit piping, and also, that would weigh an extra few kg. Your battery retails for $200 too, so for $135, you've done great. I like your choice of battery too.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AJ120 View Post
                                Yeah as Aussie Andy said it's a good way to keep spare batteries in stock, a crew I used to work for always had 2 Cat batteries and acid to go sitting spare as we were running around 10 units that used them. I gather they will last almost indefinitely until the acid is added.
                                ...
                                Cheers Andrew
                                I read that with lots of those, they actually "condition the plates" , then drain the battery. And they supply the fluid in the bottles. So with lots of them, they do have a shelf live.

                                Comment

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