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  • The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

    Alright! I'm in the process of getting my dual battery setup and have had a headache searching through several different threads for solutions on which tray and battery to get. So I thought I'd create a thread with all our dual battery threads to make it easier for other members when they get around to it. While we are well aware of the issues with the aircon pipe and power steering reservoir, here are the various documented installs that I have found:

    Tray: ARB
    Battery: Supercharge Amptech D50Z
    Comments:
    - No bending of the aircon pipe
    - Used a small bracket to gently (I mean gently) push the pipe out a little.
    - RedArc Isolator was used
    - Link: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=10845&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=12 0

    Tray: ARB
    Battery: Optima 55A Yellow top
    Comments:
    - Redarc BCDC1220 was used.
    - Link: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12846

    Tray: ARB
    Battery: SuperCharge Allrounder MRV50 259x273x202
    Comments:
    - No relocating the aircon pipe
    - Link: http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11827

    Tray: ARB
    Battery:
    - Century NS70X (cranking 580CCA), size: 258x172x225
    - Century Optima D34 (dual purpose 750CCA/55Ah), size: 254x171x199
    Comments: As recommended by ARB

    Tray: Sidewinder
    Battery: SuperCharge Allrounder MRV50 259x273x202
    Comments:
    - Link: http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page190.html
    - Slight relocation of aircon pipe required.
    - Relocation of power steering reservoir required (for Petrol model only)

    Tray: Sidewinder
    Battery: Amp-Tech D50Z
    Comments: Slight bend of AC pipe required.

    Tray: Sidewinder
    Battery: 60ah Supercharge Allrounder
    Comments:
    - Petrol model
    - Smaller battery as power steering reservoir was not relocated

    Tray: TJM Dual Battery Frame
    Batery: - Supercharge MRV70 105AH (Diesel install)
    Comments: Used with a Projecta 150 Amp Dual Battery Controller

    Tray: Unknown
    Battery: Federal 75AH DC24
    Comments:

    Batteries that are assumed to require bending the aircon pipe:
    Tray: Unknown
    Battery:

    - Trojan 100ah 275x170x200 note: battery base is 260 (Petrol install)
    Comments:
    Link: http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=9701

    Battery swap method:
    Tray: Sidewinder kit
    Comments:
    - Factory battery relocated to driver side tray
    - Supercharge MRV70 installed in passenger side tray


    I will add more builds as they come or when I am notified. I hope this has helped someone.

    Cheers
    [COLOR="black"][b]William[/b][/COLOR]
    [SIZE="1"][COLOR="gray"]Prado 150 GXL D4D Auto in White![/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?18483-William-s-150-GXL-D4D][U][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="1"]My Rig Build-up[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/url]

  • #2
    Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

    I recently installed a dual battery, electric brake and rear power in a Diesel 150 using the ABR Sidewinder kit. In the interests of practicality and asthetics I made a few minor changes to the recommended install.

    Second battery using ABR tray and Amp-Tech D50Z 80AH deep cycle battery


    A/C pipe shifted slightly to fit


    Second battery earth connected to engine block


    Cables across radiator as per Toyota European dual battery set-up
    krypto
    Avid PP Poster!
    Last edited by krypto; 08-01-2012, 09:46 PM.
    [B]Steve[/B]

    2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

      Awesome, thanks for sharing. Did you change your starter battery too? I don't recall having an insulation wrap on my battery.

      Anyway, this thread was an interesting read: posting.php?mode=reply&f=16&t=7939 and it has me thinking...

      So here's a situation... I drive 6hours to my camping destination and stay there for 4 nights. I drive 20minutes to town and 20minutes back from town on every second day. There's too much cloud cover for solar panels to work effectively. I have a 105Ah battery box, 80AH aux and a factory cranking battery. I'll be running a 40lt waeco that uses a total of 22amps over 24hours (according to a comparo, not sure what the ambient temp or fridge setting was) and lights for 6hours a day that use 4amps. I reckon the fridge usage is optimistic, so let's say the ambient temp is a lot higher causing it to use 30amps over 24hours. So over the 4 days I will use a total of: 30x4 + 6x4 = 144amps

      Day 1: (39amps)
      6 hour drive
      Fridge commences to runs for 12hours on both fully charged batteries using 15amps
      6 hours running 4amp lights.

      Day 2: (56amps - charge gained from driving)
      Fridge runs for 24hours using 30amps
      6hours running 4amp lights
      20minute drive to town gains ?amps
      20minute drive back from town gains ?amps

      Day 3: (56amps)
      Fridge runs for 24hours using 30amps
      6hours running 4amp lights

      Day 4: (56amps - charge gained from driving)
      Fridge runs for 24hours using 30amps
      6hours running 4amp lights
      20minute drive to town gains ?amps
      20minute drive back from town gains ?amps

      Day 5: (15ah)
      Fridge runs for 12hours from midnight to noon then the drive home


      Now the options:

      Option 1.
      - Factory starter battery
      - 80Ah aux
      - 105Ah battery box
      - Redarc sbi12 $100
      - LeighW's diode mod $35
      Assuming I run the aux and battery box down to approx 30% I will have (80+105)*0.7=129.5Ah plus whatever charge I'd get on the 80Ah battery from the four 20minute drives using LeighW's diode. Approximately how much would that be? I'd imagine that I would be marginally making the 144amp requirement overall and that it's probably not good running the batteries so low. Total cost $135


      Option 2.
      - Factory starter battery
      - 80Ah aux
      - 105Ah battery box
      - Traxide SB80 isolator $125 + post
      - Replace factory starter battery with Allrounder MRV70 105Ah battery $200
      Unlike the Redarc, the Traxide SB80 will use 50% of the main battery before isolating itself from the array. So again running the aux and battery box to 30% let's do the calculation. (80+105/2) = 92.5amps, isolator kicks in. 16ah remains till 30% on 80Ah battery. Some charge is recovered on the 105ah battery and is also usable. A total of 108.5Ah (plus charged amount) has been available before even switching to the 105Ah battery box with 105x0.7= 73.5Ah to offer. A grand total of 182Ah can be supplied with this setup at a cost of $325. It has the ability to provide 48Ah more than Option 1 at a cost of $190 more. With the excess capacity at hand 182-144= 38Ah can be used to charge phones and other stuff, or it provides the option of not running down the batteries to 30% but at a more higher percentage, hence extending the life of the batteries.


      Comments:
      1. Traxide isn't as well known as the Redarc and hence reliability is questionable.
      2. Option 2 would allow for winching from the main battery without having to worry too much about flattening it.
      3. Diesel requires 710CCA to start, proposed 105Ah battery is rated for 760CCA. Does this diminish at 50% charge?


      Are the calculations for both options correct? Could you propose a better solution?

      Cheers
      [COLOR="black"][b]William[/b][/COLOR]
      [SIZE="1"][COLOR="gray"]Prado 150 GXL D4D Auto in White![/COLOR][/SIZE]
      [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?18483-William-s-150-GXL-D4D][U][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="1"]My Rig Build-up[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/url]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

        William, can't really comment on your calculations other than to say they look correct, but a few points:
        1. I would never drain the cranking battery as you want a safety margin
        3. The ABR battery module runs to 12.4 volts before disconnecting the batteries (I measured this)
        2. I fitted an Amp-tech battery because it is designed primarily as deep cycle, it has thicker plates and is better suited to running a fridge than the All-rounder. (This was confirmed by talking to super charge who distribute both)
        4. I recently fitted a mppt controller to my solar panel (approx $40 fleabay), while camping in a very shaded forest it still managed to charge my battery
        5. I trialled running my fridge in the back for a couple of weeks while just doing short day to day runs and the aux battery coped fine, although it did get down to about 12.2v on a couple of occasions.
        6. I don't run the diode and have found my batteries charging fine
        7. The insulation came from ABR, only stops radiant heat from the engine which matters on long runs.

        Ultimately science will get you only so far, I'm sure all the options will work. The only option that I didn't like and personally I can't see the value of is switching the cranking battery. Two reasons, first you end up with a very long wire run to the starter and secondly I would rather have a bigger safety margin on my cranking battery than my aux, that is I'd rather have a warm fridge than an engine that won't start.
        [B]Steve[/B]

        2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

          Hi thanks for the info. My response to your dotpoints:
          1) Apparently the traxide isolator leaves 50% SOC which is sufficient for cranking (or so they say). I'm a little weary of the concept too.
          2) 12.4volts is something like 70% SOC. I had always assumed the ABR isolator isolated at 12.7 volts like the redarc...
          3) Thanks for the tip... I'll look into the amp-tech to see if it suits my needs.
          4) What's the output on your solar array? 120W?
          5) Interesting...
          6) I don't plan to use the diode at first, but I will be monitoring charge for the first few weeks to decide whether I need one.
          7) Yes I know its from Derek... I was just wondering if you replaced both batteries that's all.

          Agreed, nobody likes a flat battery. Especially out in the bush.

          Cheers
          [COLOR="black"][b]William[/b][/COLOR]
          [SIZE="1"][COLOR="gray"]Prado 150 GXL D4D Auto in White![/COLOR][/SIZE]
          [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?18483-William-s-150-GXL-D4D][U][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="1"]My Rig Build-up[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/url]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

            To your questions:
            2) With no load connected my 2 batteries stay linked for more than 12 hours
            4) My solar is 120W
            5) My fridge is a 50l Waeco and I had it set to -1C which uses a lot more power than 5C
            6) The diode mode may help in your situation where you are doing short runs as it will charge the battery a bit quicker
            7) No, I didn't replace both batteries
            [B]Steve[/B]

            2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

              Awesome, that was very informative. I'm sure it will help others in deciding their dual battery setup too.

              Cheers
              [COLOR="black"][b]William[/b][/COLOR]
              [SIZE="1"][COLOR="gray"]Prado 150 GXL D4D Auto in White![/COLOR][/SIZE]
              [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?18483-William-s-150-GXL-D4D][U][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="1"]My Rig Build-up[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/url]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                Originally posted by William
                Hi thanks for the info. My response to your dotpoints:
                1) Apparently the traxide isolator leaves 50% SOC which is sufficient for cranking (or so they say). I'm a little weary of the concept too.
                Hi William and Krypto, just a couple of points about the way my Traxide SC80 works.

                The SC80 has been in production for over 20 years, working exactly as it does today. It has always allowed up to 50% of the cranking battery to be used by accessories connected to the auxiliary battery.

                The SC80 has not only been around for more than 20 years, there are tens of thousands of them in use and they are supplied to a number of RV manufacturers.

                Taking the cranking battery of any vehicle down to 50% will not effect it’s starting capability unless there is a problem with the cranking battery and/or the vehicle itself and whether you have an SC80 or any other isolator fitted, you still have an unrelated problem that has to be rectified.

                Our Sc80s are VERY reliable and we back this reliability with a 2 year warranty and a life time repair guaranty, and if one does play up, as long as it has not been tapered with, we repair them for the cost of return mail.

                So they are NOT a throw-away product. They are designed to last as long as your vehicle lasts, and in many cases, they are transferred for an old vehicle to a new one as owners upgrade vehicles.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                  Sorry, Double posting

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                    Thanks for your reply drivesafe. I believe redarc's warranty is more or less the same... also, redarc is a reputable brand and like you say about your product - last a long time. Anyway, if I were to sell the car, I'm not sure I could be bothered removing the isolator let alone all the wiring, battery etc. I'm not saying your product is superior or inferior, I'm just weighing up my options.
                    [COLOR="black"][b]William[/b][/COLOR]
                    [SIZE="1"][COLOR="gray"]Prado 150 GXL D4D Auto in White![/COLOR][/SIZE]
                    [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?18483-William-s-150-GXL-D4D][U][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="1"]My Rig Build-up[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/url]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                      Originally posted by William
                      Thanks for your reply drivesafe. I'm not saying your product is superior or inferior, I'm just weighing up my options.
                      You sure as hell did try to make out my gear was inferior!

                      William, I wasn’t going to say anything beyond pointing out that my gear is anything but “questionable”

                      But you made a groundless scare mongering statement like this, “Traxide isn't as well known as the Redarc and hence reliability is questionable” and then state your going to fit a substandard toy wiring kit to your own vehicle.

                      Have you seen any posts complaining about one of my customers not getting backup service from me or my products not performing as stated?

                      The fact that you are only too happy to use a grossly inadequate cabling kit in your own vehicle should be clear evidence that you haven’t got a clew what your posting about and as such, try refraining from posting nothing more than scare mongering comments unless you have evidence to back it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                        Originally posted by drivesafe
                        Originally posted by William
                        Thanks for your reply drivesafe. I'm not saying your product is superior or inferior, I'm just weighing up my options.
                        You sure as hell did try to make out my gear was inferior!

                        William, I wasn’t going to say anything beyond pointing out that my gear is anything but “questionable”

                        But you made a groundless scare mongering statement like this, “Traxide isn't as well known as the Redarc and hence reliability is questionable” and then state your going to fit a substandard toy wiring kit to your own vehicle.

                        Have you seen any posts complaining about one of my customers not getting backup service from me or my products not performing as stated?

                        The fact that you are only too happy to use a grossly inadequate cabling kit in your own vehicle should be clear evidence that you haven’t got a clew what your posting about and as such, try refraining from posting nothing more than scare mongering comments unless you have evidence to back it.
                        For starters, if your isolator was dodgy I wouldn't have used it in my option comparison; in which the traxide option actually turned out to be better than the redarc option. I'm not the first to question the cranking ability of a battery at 50% SOC. Must we be autoelectricians to question what's blatantly obvious? Also, I don't think Dereks 25mmsq cabling kit is a "toy wiring kit". As for scare mongering, you are the one scare mongering people into purchasing your product, for example, the oscillating "problem" with the redarcs that doesn't even exist with the the appropriate wire size - or were you inferring that the traxide unit can operate using "toy wiring"? You know, I was actually considering getting your isolator but after this comment, you can forget about it. You could have just explained how your isolator works rather than attack a potential customer like that. PM me if you want to discuss this further - this is now off topic so I will no longer respond to irrelevant posts.
                        [COLOR="black"][b]William[/b][/COLOR]
                        [SIZE="1"][COLOR="gray"]Prado 150 GXL D4D Auto in White![/COLOR][/SIZE]
                        [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?18483-William-s-150-GXL-D4D][U][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="1"]My Rig Build-up[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/url]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                          Bit of of selective reading william.

                          I specifically pointed out that oscillation can be caused by thin cable and that Redarc were making sure that this didn’t happen to there gear by “WISELY” recommending that there isolator be fitted close to the cranking battery, or did you miss that bit.

                          And how can you make out your were not scare mongering when you posted this, “Traxide isn't as well known as the Redarc and hence reliability is questionable” and again, you don’t have a single bit of info to back such a slanderous statement.

                          And as this thread is most certainly not of topic, I’m not PMing, if you have anything to say, post it up for all to see.

                          As far as you buying one of my isolators, why would you be considering to by something you had set out to slander?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                            BTW william, what has 25mm2 cable got to do with these kits supposedly not being toys.

                            There are quite a few of the toy kit suppliers on the net and the quickest way to pick a toy kit from a professional kit is to see if the kit comes with the same length on negative cable as there is positive cable.

                            These kits are supplied with much shorter negative cables and to have the negative cable connected to the chassis to use the chassis as the earth return. While this will work with some vehicles, it won't with others and this short negative cabling is done for no other reason than to keep the cost of the kits down as low as possible but because there is no way to test if a vehicle’s chassis will make a good earth return before you do an installation, these types of kits are simply playing Russian Roulette with the customers.

                            No professional installer or professional type kit risks having a poor earth circuit by using the chassis as the earth return. Professionals will always run both a positive and a negative cable all the way between the different batteries, and only when both the cranking and the auxiliary batteries are under the bonnet is the chassis a suitable and safe earth return.

                            Furthermore, these toy kits usually need more part to be bought separately to finish the DBS properly.

                            As for the 25mm2 cable, the optimum cable size for any dual battery set up where the auxiliary/house batteries are located some distance for the alternator, such as in the rear of a vehicle or in a caravan or camper trailer, is either 6B&S twin ( 13.5mm2 x 2 ) cable or 16mm2 twin cable.

                            Any thinner and you will take forever to recharge low batteries and any thicker and there is very little additional advantage to be gained when you weigh up the additional cost and work required to fit thicker cable.

                            Something like 25mm2 twin cable would be good if you were setting up a system with a battery to battery cable run of 20 metres or more but it is not only of minimal advantage in the average DB set up, if the wrong batteries are being used, in a worse case scenario, the thicker cable can allow them to be charged with too high a voltage and current, leading to damaged batteries.

                            There is a lot more knowledge needed to be able to put together a proper dual battery system than just thinking thicker cable will do a better job.

                            As for your comments about discharging a cranking battery down to 50%, ignorance maybe bliss but it’s no substitute for decades of hands on testing and experience.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

                              Drivesafe,

                              This is the second topic that I believe you are interjecting into a topic when the use of a forum allows it's member to openly discuss their opinions on products. Perhaps instead of jumping into the forum topic and attempting to market your own product you should PM the member in question and supply them with information if they require it. If you need to correct an incorrect statement then a simple short explanation with a link to relevant web address to support the correct information would be more appropriate. I understand that you are passionate about your product but it would be much better if a member who utilizes your product jumped in and spoke from their experiences rather than you getting personal with members on an open forum.

                              Any issues PM me.
                              Paul
                              [SIZE=2]Black 2009 150 Series D4D GXL Prado, [B]TG150[/B] Transfer Case & Actuator Guard, TJM T13 bar, TJM 9.5lb Winch, Airtec Snorkel, TJM steel sidesteps and sidebars, TJM Underbody Protection, TJM XGS Gold Suspension, Tinted, ARB Fridge Freezer, Couplertec System, Foxwing Awning, 80AH Dual battery, 8" indash GPS, Wet Seat seatcovers, GME TX3540, TX3110 & TX680, [B][COLOR=#ff6633]Maxtrax[/COLOR][/B], Kaymar Dual Wheel Carrier, Breathers, Federal MT's.[/SIZE]

                              Comment

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