Bilstein/Kings combo Information

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

I have been searching over the last few nights trying to find some detailed information from users that have the Kings springs and bilstein combination.

There are quite a few options for King Springs for the Prado for front/rear. There seems to be a standard Prado and a EHD (assume "Extra Heavy Duty"?). See below:



I am looking at the raised Front and Rear springs, with the below shock combination. Does anyone run this specifically? Unfortunately it seems most with the Kings dont know their specific spring part number (from what my searches have dug up). So for a Kings/Billies configuration, I would be looking at the below part numbers.

Bilstein PartNo's:
BE5-A713 - FRONT
BE5-A712 - REAR

Kings Raised springs:
KTFR-101 - FRONT
KTRR-102 - REAR


Please post all of your configurations and how you find the ride. Im looking for something that is comfortable around town (not too harsh) and also suitable for travelling with the back full (like a middle ground). Most of my time (90-95%) is spent around town without a load in the back, so would like good road handling/cornering ability etc. I would be willing to fit Polyairs in the rear to compensate for the not so firm rear end when the rear is loaded up.

PS: Mods, cant find any threads relating to the Billies/Kings specifically so thought I would start a relevant topic.

[Prado04 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado04]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Here are the kings part numbers.

king springs have 3 springs kits.

standard height KTFS-101 and KTRS-102 [approx 10mm higher and 30 percent stronger]

raised height KTFR-101 and KTRR-102 [ approx 30mm higher and 30 percent stronger]

extra heavy duty raised height KTFR-101HD and KTRR-102HD [ approx 30mm higher and 60 percent stronger]

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

I have just spoke with several distributors of Bilstein, I have been advised that the model numbers for the “Australian Spec” Bilstein is BE5-A480 (Front) and BE5-A481 (Rear) . Are these the same shocks (same part number) supplied in the ATS kit?
Regarding King Springs, the local distributor advised that for a steel bar I would need the HD front springs to cope with the weight.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

You should have a chat to Darren at Autocraft. He valves the Bilsteins to his own specs to suit the 120.

I'd say you couldn't speak to anyone who knows more about this spring/shock combination.



[email protected] or PM him through this site.

Mick

[Auto-Craft Inactive Find all posts View Profile Close Auto-Craft]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

I have just spoke with several distributors of Bilstein, I have been advised that the model numbers for the “Australian Spec” Bilstein is BE5-A480 (Front) and BE5-A481 (Rear) . Are these the same shocks (same part number) supplied in the ATS kit?
Regarding King Springs, the local distributor advised that for a steel bar I would need the HD front springs to cope with the weight.

No, they arent right, they are standard spec, and dont have anywhere near enough rebound for our roads and weights. Bushes will be different.

The kings dont really lift the vehicle enough, we find, and tend to drop more over time, but if you arent after a 50mm lift, then they may be ok for you.

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

HI Darren,
Thanks for reply, since the conflicting reports I spoke with sydney shocks to verify part numbers etc.

A712/A713 are the re-specced shock for Australia.
A480/A481 are the German (I think) standard shock.

[05oiler Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 05oiler]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

I have both sets of Kings Springs KTFS101, KTRS102 (Std height) and KTFR101, KTRR102 (Raised). I currently have the Std Height and Bilsteins BE5-A712 AND BE5-A712 fitted to my 08 Prado and next week will fit the Raised springs for an outback trip. This is my link viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1392&start=80#p67854 . I have the front struts set at the third collar position. I find the ride with the Std height very good, very well controlled. I also have Firestone Airbags to take the heavier loads.

I used this combination on my 05 Prado when I travelled the Canning a couple of years ago. The car performed extremely well considering the load but required a bit more height (crushed the bash plates). I had the strut collar set at number 1 position.

Regards

Garry

[middojnr Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close middojnr]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Bilstein PartNo's:
BE5-A713 - FRONT
BE5-A712 - REAR

Kings Raised springs:
KTFR-101 - FRONT
KTRR-102 - REAR

Switched,

I had to ring my mechanic to find out but here's the information. (I couldn't get the mechanic off the phone. I think things are that slow he's bored!)

Bilstein Shocks, Part numbers:
BBE5-A712 (Rear)
BBE5-A713 (Front)

King Springs, EFS Part Numbers:
TPR-104E (Front)
TPR-105E (Rear)

While the part numbers for the springs are EFS Part Numbers (not the King part numbers) they will have a direct relationship. The E suffix tends toward the lighter duty of the two, with the heavy duty one carrying a HDE suffix. Looking at the page you've included, I would suggest that I got the KTFR-101 - FRONT - and the KTRR-102 - REAR - springs.

I have found mine to be exceptional on the road (around town, empty), stiffening up the ride just enough to take the 'wallow' out of the car and on long journeys really take the edge out of driving which allowed us to drive further without breaks. They also perform admirably when packed up and towing the camper trailer to our favourite 4wding destinations. The true test came when my father rode in it. My father had an aversion to my putting on a suspension lift because - as he claimed - it ruins the ride. He ate his words and is now considering the non-lifted version of the same combination for his 2008 Prado GXL.

It's a pity you're not in Brisbane (or travelling to Brisbane), otherwise I would have let you take mine for a spin.

[Bankrupt Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bankrupt]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Hey Switched

I've just had the Bilstein BE5-A712 & 713's fitted to my 09 D4D last week and they appear fine.

I used the Lovell's TFR118 and TRR119 coils upon the advice of my suspension guy...usually I would never use Lovell's as I've found them to be a second rate coil but they seem ok (35mm lift average, front strut on lowest setting).

As for the "re-valved" Bilsteins...the jury is out on this one...an Austrlian importer/distributor tells me that it simply doesn't happen in Aust.

The price will be the tell tale. Revalving a set of Bilsteins for my race car use to cost $250-300, so that's $500-600 for a car.

Given my shocks cost me $950 you should be able to tell.

Hope this helps.

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Thanks Guys,
I was originally going for the OME. Spoke to my local ARB dealer (a different chap than my usual contact) who failed to give me the information I was after (Me- wanting model numbers), when asked, he said he didn't have them. I figured he wasnt interested so I wasn't either. Giving it another try, I thought Id just email ARB HO, who did the right thing and forwarded to another dealer. That was two weeks ago, not a peep heard from that dealer.

Failing all that. I have managed to get a good price on the Billies, very good actually so I have decided to take this path instead. I can get the billies and the kings for less then what the ARB kit (not RRP either) can be supplied for.

While the part numbers for the springs are EFS Part Numbers (not the King part numbers) they will have a direct relationship. The E suffix tends toward the lighter duty of the two, with the heavy duty one carrying a HDE suffix. Looking at the page you've included, I would suggest that I got the KTFR-101 - FRONT - and the KTRR-102 - REAR - springs.I have found mine to be exceptional on the road (around town, empty), stiffening up the ride just enough to take the 'wallow' out of the car and on long journeys really take the edge out of driving which allowed us to drive further without breaks. They also perform admirably when packed up and towing the camper trailer to our favourite 4wding destinations. The true test came when my father rode in it. My father had an aversion to my putting on a suspension lift because - as he claimed - it ruins the ride. He ate his words and is now considering the non-lifted version of the same combination for his 2008 Prado GXL.

Thanks weekendmaverick, that sounds really good. How do you find the non HD springs in the front considering that you have a bar upfront (steel is it?) and dual batteries? I wanted to fix up the issue of my "nose" pointing down because of the weight in the front due to my steel deluxe bar. When I called a local kings dealer, they said it was probably best to run the HD at the front and standard at the rear (both raised). Also, after reading your comments I called Kings direct and they said the same, PROBABLY best to run the HD on the front to bring the nose back up.. I dont have a winch and dont know if I will get one and expect to run dual batteries in the rear only (AGM).

I have both sets of Kings Springs KTFS101, KTRS102 (Std height) and KTFR101, KTRR102 (Raised). I currently have the Std Height and Bilsteins BE5-A712 AND BE5-A712 fitted to my 08 Prado and next week will fit the Raised springs for an outback trip. This is my link http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php ... =80#p67854 . I have the front struts set at the third collar position. I find the ride with the Std height very good, very well controlled. I also have Firestone Airbags to take the heavier loads.

I used this combination on my 05 Prado when I travelled the Canning a couple of years ago. The car performed extremely well considering the load but required a bit more height (crushed the bash plates). I had the strut collar set at number 1 position.

Hi Garry,
I see you have the steel bar and Dual batteries up front. How do you find the non-HD springs up front (both standard height and raised?) Its a little hard to see from your link as the pic is a little small.

I will definitely be looking at the non HD springs in the rear. Actually, I'm still deciding on what manufacturer to go with on the springs and whether kings will be the right decision.

[05oiler Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 05oiler]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Hello Jason, The ride height is just right for me now. When I had the 05 Prado, I had a Sovereign Bar and the same set up and the collar at number 1, I always felt that the front was a little down. The measurements now on the 08 Prado seems to maintain the standard height relationship between front and back. The 08 Prado is a fantastic touring car. The family love travelling in it and I can put in some big miles without complaint. I sometime feels like it just floats along but it doesn't wallow. With the draws and gear in the back its got to be carrying at least a 60-70kg. I set the airbags at about 7lbs for most driving and add a little when travelling with light loads.

Regards

Garry

[middojnr Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close middojnr]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Thanks weekendmaverick, that sounds really good. How do you find the non HD springs in the front considering that you have a bar upfront (steel is it?) and dual batteries? I wanted to fix up the issue of my "nose" pointing down because of the weight in the front due to my steel deluxe bar. When I called a local kings dealer, they said it was probably best to run the HD at the front and standard at the rear (both raised). Also, after reading your comments I called Kings direct and they said the same, PROBABLY best to run the HD on the front to bring the nose back up.. I dont have a winch and dont know if I will get one and expect to run dual batteries in the rear only (AGM).

My bullbar is the alloy TJM T1 Protection bar, and the dual battery system was installed already but it was all factored in by my mechanic when he took on the job. The alloy is much lighter than the steel bars (as discovered when my father was doing his research on bars to stick on his.) I don't have a winch and I'm unlikely to get one.

When thinking about it, I might also suggest the HD fronts (but I'm no mechanic, and having no second battery up front may also be a reason to not go HD) and the same as my rears. Not being paid by King Springs doesn't stop me from ranting and raving about them. You'll be sorry if you don't, in my opinion. The combination just feels right. (And you have no idea of my father's aversion to lift kits and his change of opinion when he rode in mine - and he's been four-wheel driving for the last 30 years, starting out in a Series III Landie)

[Auto-Craft Inactive Find all posts View Profile Close Auto-Craft]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Hey Switched

but they seem ok (35mm lift average, front strut on lowest setting).
As for the "re-valved" Bilsteins...the jury is out on this one...an Austrlian importer/distributor tells me that it simply doesn't happen in Aust.
The price will be the tell tale. Revalving a set of Bilsteins for my race car use to cost $250-300, so that's $500-600 for a car.
Given my shocks cost me $950 you should be able to tell.
Hope this helps.

If that importer/distributor were in Melbourne, they would probably believe they were correct. The way Bilstein Part No's work, in the catalogue, unless they knew what to look for, and it wasnt a MO No, they could perhaps order it.

Re rate $88 a pr, [depending on what you require] custom gets up around the price your quoting.

50 or more makes for them manufactured as required, to save changing them.

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Just some more info for anyone considering an upgrade to King springs:

KTFR-101 - FRONT approx. 40mm lift, spring rate 660lb
KTFR-101HD -FRONT HD approx. 50mm lift, spring rate 800lb
KTRR-102 - REAR approx. 40mm lift, spring rate 260lb

The lift above is expected only without accessories ie bullbar, dual batteries etc

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

Re: Bilstein/Kings combo Information

Well well well, I finally bit the bullet and have all my gear on order.

In the end I have decided to run with raised springs all round (Non HD), and the A712/A713. Swapping out to HD springs later shouldnt be much of a problem so Ill run with the softer spring. I have spoken with a few people running this combination (thanks Garry) who are more then pleased with the configuration.

Up front I will have the circlip in the middle position up front to compensate for a little sagging and the steel bar up front.

Ill make sure I will update with pics once the gear arrives (should be around 4 weeks or so for the shocks).
Now to wait for my jack stands that have been on order for over 6 weeks now :evil: :evil: