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Thread: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

  1. #16
    for others that may be interested.

    UNIBUS ( uniform bulky combustion system )

    Technology that enables rapid combustion at low temperatures, by dividing fuel injection into a diesel engine into two stages, first creating a preliminary air-fuel mixture and then delaying the injection timing for the remaining fuel.

    Also used to reduce the combustion noise at lower engine loads and speed.

    its also related to the exhaust emissions

    Cheers

    Steve
    Lightforce 240Blitz driving lights, Rear hitch recovery point, GME tx3400 uhf, 64watt Uni-Solar cell, ARB CKMA12 Air compressor. all awaiting new vehicle to be delivered so they can be remounted.

  2. #17

    diesel rattle in D4D Prado

    My D4D is doing exactly the same. Started about 1000Kms ago at 31000Kms. Sounds like one cylinder only. Stops after 2 minutes. Loudest at 2000rpm under modest load. Oil change made no difference. Quite scary!
    2007 D4D Manual GX, ARB bar, Coopers, Dual Batteries, Codan HF Radio with rear HF Bracket, 2M VHF, 70cms UHF, UHF CB, APRS, Tom Tom GPS, Rally Computer, Waeco Fridge, In-built Water Tank.

  3. #18
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    I drove a mates Hilux one cold morning and it definately made the same noise under slight throttle at about 2000rpm. This is a work ute and now has 145,000kms under its belt with the noise being the same since new.
    Very wierd after getting used to a 1kz when cold.

    From what I understand it is just a common rail thing of injecting a very small amount of diesel very early in the cycle to get ignition and then injecting the full fuel load at the correct time. This is all to meet emissions which are now very strictly controlled even with a cold engine (previously emission levels only needed to be met with hot engine).


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve & Sandra
    Ive worked on cummins engines that used to rattle until the lube oil was up to temp, it was called step timing i think. Its been years since i was in the trade.
    The old Big Cam 4 is not even in the same universe but even in 1986 they where trying to advance the timing when the engine was cold to cut down on smoke. The rattle is not that much different though


    Ben
    2008 Holden Calais 6ltr

  4. #19
    Advanced Member clifton's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
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    Hi Steve,
    You are correct there is a post injection, the whole reason for the HCCI engine development was to meet Euro NOx and particulate emissions from diesel engines, I didn't elaborate on the techo bits as I didn't want to bore our members with Diesel Theory.
    07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

  5. #20
    Yep - mine has just started to do this at 17,000km / 6 months old
    07 Prado GXL, D4D manual, silver ash, Sovereign bullbar, towbar, spotties, dual batts, BFG A/T, sunroof, TXE 4400, window tints, headlight & bonnet protectors, floor mats, Navman MY60T, 2" Ultimate suspension, Polyairs, snorkel

  6. #21

    D4d cold start rattle

    my april 2007 started on the dot of 20,000Km.
    It did not do it last winter.
    Today was not the coldest day this year so far.
    The oil change was done a week after it started doing it.
    Its getting worst. Today i had passengers and a bystander ask " what the %$#% is wrong with the motor ! ".

    1, Its a Y2K + DST bug ;-)
    2, Something has happened to the fuel we are using.
    3, One of the senders is confused or contaminated.
    4, Some timer/run in counter in the ECU thinks its time to change injection methods.

    Can we also try to work out that week we started to get the noise.
    Mine was two weeks ago.
    2007 D4D Auto.

  7. #22

    d4d cool start rattle

    Well , i don't think its COLD oil/motor thats doing it.

    Yesterday at 8:30am the air temp was 6^c ( as low as 4.1 at 6:30am).

    Today it was 12 Deg^C and it was as noisy as yesterday ( got as low as 7.1^c at 1:30am).

    I'll change the display on the scangaugeII so it will come up with water and air intake temp straight up.
    2007 D4D Auto.

  8. #23
    Today from the ScanGaugeII water temp 13^c. Air Temp 13^c.
    Clock/dash mounted outside air temp 13^c.

    It was as noisy as ever.
    The noise started to lessen after 2 Km @ 50 Km/h as the water temp got to 50^c ( this is also when the main temp gauge just gets to the lower section of the arc next to cold.)
    The noise was still evident but in a much narrower rev range ( now 2200 to 2400) after 5 Km ( as the temp got to 83^c).
    The noise was still there up to 7.5Km and when the motor had been at 84 to 85^c for 3 or 4 minutes.


    ( i sent this to another prado list as well )
    2007 D4D Auto.

  9. #24
    Advanced Member Crammy's Avatar
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    It sounds like there's varying degrees of the noise out there. Mine starts up with the cold shakes every morning at around 20 degrees, has done so since new. I just thought it was normal for diesels after driving my parents 3.0L patrol which makes an almighty racket when it's cold (also common rail).

    I'm not too worried about mine at the moment, although if it gets loud enough to wake up the local yappers I might have to get it looked at! :shock:
    2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
    Build Up---> http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315

    {ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift} {Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster} {600w Projecta 240v Inverter} {Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims} {ARB Deluxe Winch Bar} {IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID} {35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion} {ARB Underbonnet Compressor} {GME TX3440} {T-Max 10,000lb winch} {Safari Snorkel} {Milford Cargo Barrier} {Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray} {60L Waeco}
    http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Tran...heel_drive.gif

  10. #25
    Well I just got off of the phone after paying for my last service.
    The service manager just spilt the beans.
    Toyota and the fuel companies are in mad negotiations and have been for just on 12 months now. Tojo is VERY worried about the hilux name with this problem in the d4d range.
    The long term quality of the OZ fuel is just not up to the euro standard. The carbon build-up on the new 1100+ DegC glow plugs and the injector tips is causing the engine knock sensor to get the fuel mix and possibly the timing wrong.
    The dealers have a plug in diagnostic that they run on vehicles that customers report the problem on. If the injector functionality is out side of + or - 4% then the injectors are replaced.
    The other fix they had tested on the hilux here in OZ and in the KX ( or KZ ?) rally prado in parts of Europe is to reprogram the ECU, but this lowered the engine power to below its advertised output. Fixed the problem , but may get tojo into legal trouble for false advertising.
    I asked to be notified if they find a fix in the next few weeks / months.. He said the fix will be a lot longer away than that. BUT that any customer that reports the problem will get put onto a Toyota list and will get the injector function test done for them at each service after that time.

    I was also told that in testing this dealer ran a air drier into the intake of a quite cold d4d. This stopped all but the true cold/low oil pressure noise that you expect at startup.
    This tells me that its a combination of ECU controlled settings derived from its inputs AND the injector problem.
    2007 D4D Auto.

  11. #26
    Is this more prevalent with one brand of fuel or another? Seems to be some variance on how bad the problem is between cars.

    Can those experiencing this problem list what fuel brand they are using?

    Does the fuel vary by location? Years ago in SW WA the winter diesel blend waxed less at low temperatures and I do not know if there are still winter blends distributed around the country.

    Thoughts?
    Bluestorm mafia and maybe one or two other vices.
    My 150: http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-D4D-automatic

  12. #27
    I think the wife fills up at APCO.

    I was told through the CFA that there are summer and winter diesel again this year. After having been told last year that there was no longer a difference.

    I have a technical contact within a fuel company that I have asked for comment on my last post ( they specialise and supply diesel ).

    I also asked if he would recommend any of the additives for a d4d.
    2007 D4D Auto.

  13. #28
    APCO for me too.

    Only had the vehicle 4 weeks now. On the thrid morning (800k on the clock) it developed a very rough idle which has occured every day since but only when stationary in gear and it goes away when I've done about 20km.

    This is accompanied by a fairly loud rattling noise (as compared to a mate's Hilux D4D).

    I had also observed on occasion smoke upon startup and during moderate to heavy acceleration (overtaking another vehicle).

    Being new to diesels and going on advice from others I just thought that was the way they are.

    Combined with this was a deteriorating fuel economy but nothing dramatic.

    At 3000km the engine malfunction light came on and off to the dealer I go.

    Shortly afterwards they called me to say that the problem is with one (possibly more) of the injectors and that I may as well pick the car up as it would take a few days for them to arrange the fix.

    When I inquired as to wether the vehicle should be driven in this state I was told it should be OK but the person I was talking to said they would check "with the boys in the workshop". I then heard this voice in the background say very definitively that the vehicle should not be driven so I've had to leave it with them.

    When I rang up today to find out the progress I was told that "there seems to be few problems with these injectors " as the place they normally source their fuel injectors from is short on supply and they've had to hunt around.

    End of story is I get the Prado back tomorrow and I really hope that there is a noticeable improvement.

    It's a shame that my first post is on such a negative topic as despite these problems I think the Prado is a fantastic vehicle and I've enjoyed every km travelled so far (except for the ones back to the dealer).
    2008 D4D GXL A5 Charcoal Grey-Lightforce 240XGT-Tough Dog 40mm Big Bore Adjustable Shocks-Dobinson Springs-Mickey Thompson MTZ-Safari Snorkel-Uniden SX400RM-ARB Fridge-Ranox triple battery install-Custom CarPC setup-Steinbauer-Humex Exhaust-ARB Deluxe Winch Bar-ARB Compressor-ARB Rear Locker-Avenger Mako 9500lb Winch

  14. #29
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2007
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zukjeff
    Well I just got off of the phone after paying for my last service.
    The service manager just spilt the beans.
    Toyota and the fuel companies are in mad negotiations and have been for just on 12 months now. Tojo is VERY worried about the hilux name with this problem in the d4d range.
    The long term quality of the OZ fuel is just not up to the euro standard. The carbon build-up on the new 1100+ DegC glow plugs and the injector tips is causing the engine knock sensor to get the fuel mix and possibly the timing wrong.
    The dealers have a plug in diagnostic that they run on vehicles that customers report the problem on. If the injector functionality is out side of + or - 4% then the injectors are replaced.
    The other fix they had tested on the hilux here in OZ and in the KX ( or KZ ?) rally prado in parts of Europe is to reprogram the ECU, but this lowered the engine power to below its advertised output. Fixed the problem , but may get tojo into legal trouble for false advertising.
    I asked to be notified if they find a fix in the next few weeks / months.. He said the fix will be a lot longer away than that. BUT that any customer that reports the problem will get put onto a Toyota list and will get the injector function test done for them at each service after that time.

    I was also told that in testing this dealer ran a air drier into the intake of a quite cold d4d. This stopped all but the true cold/low oil pressure noise that you expect at startup.
    This tells me that its a combination of ECU controlled settings derived from its inputs AND the injector problem.
    I think your Toyota service manager has been misinformed, If it was a fuel quality problem that the japs keep talking about, why do the euro diesels put out 40% more power, more torque, use less fuel & run a lot quieter on the same fuel with out the problems we are haveing with our D4D diesels, the japs are still using old technolgy so I woud expect that they could be run on a lower grade of diesel fuel than the euro's :?:
    2007 D4D auto, Tunit Power Module, Scan GaugeII, Bilsteins & lovels HD, raised 50mm front & 60mm rear, 10,000lb Tmax winch, 7/16th Amsteelblue synthetic 23,000lb winch cable, TiTan HD winch solenoid pack, Outback draws with fridge slide & 50 litre Waeco, Ryno roof rack & Alloy Cage & extra set of Rhino HD Roof bars x 3, TJM type 15 steel Bullbar powder coated silver, Dual battery setup with custom tray, Bosch Navigator spots with 55w HID kit, Sand Grabber mats, Toyota Tow Bar, Sensor Touch Electric Brakes, Cooper ST 265/70/17 tyres, Uniden remote head UHF radio, Modified Milford Cargo Barrier, Extra power points in the back run with 10mm wire for fridge & inverter, Anderson plugs with 10mm wire front & back for the camper & compresor conections. 7 inch in dash JVC DVD player with bluetooth & Ipod adaptor, 39DB Stebel High Power TM80/2 Magnum Electric Horns. JL Audio 300/4, 300/2 power amps, Pioneer TS-C160R front splits & TS-D161S rear speakers & 12" Pioneer sub

    Still need to fit some heavy duty engine & transmision gaurds, snorkel. 9inch headrest monitors

  15. #30
    Fuel I use is from Caltex...

    One other thing I have noticed is that since the knocking started my idle speed when the motor is cold is 1200rpm, and when warmed up it is the usual 700 rpm. Has really only done this for the last 2500km

    My D4D is in for it's 20K service on Monday - should be interesting...

    Ron
    07 Prado GXL, D4D manual, silver ash, Sovereign bullbar, towbar, spotties, dual batts, BFG A/T, sunroof, TXE 4400, window tints, headlight & bonnet protectors, floor mats, Navman MY60T, 2" Ultimate suspension, Polyairs, snorkel

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