diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

One word Riv, my man, advertising.
The power of advertising stops this from happening. There has been some success in this area, but the journalists that go down this road, end up in trouble with their editors, or even the owner of the paper, wink, wink.
Small claims, except in WA, is the go.
It's a scary situation for TA and it's dealerships.
Know your rights, and you will win.
On another note, good day to you, Riv.
The Roo.

Thanks Roo, nice to see you're back mate!

Yes I think TA will need to be careful.....potential class action comes to mind

[ivansky Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ivansky]

Hi folks. I have read a number of the pages on this thread - my commiserations to everyone who has been stung by this problem. The main reason I am here is that I have a 2007 D4D Prado, and it has just recently started puffing a cloud of grey/black smoke at startup and moving off from idle - not all the time, but frequently. Until about 10,000km ago it never really blew any smoke.

I don't have any noticeable rattle (other than normal noises) that I can tell. I am not sure whether I should be worried or not? The smoke is definitely not white, which seems to be most often mentioned in this thread. It has been recently serviced at Toyota, where they performed a "Motor vac - combustion clean" and checked that all the injectors were in range (no values reported). The smoke continues, so they've recommended I bring it in overnight for a cold start tappet clearance and compression check.

It doesn't seem like I have quite the same problem as this thread is talking about, but it is too close to ignore, so I thought I'd ask if this sounds like the same problem...any thoughts?

Thanks.
Ivan

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Get your feedback values and check the sump screen. Grey smoke on start is not good. Do it now.

[ivansky Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ivansky]

Thanks mjrandom. I know what a sump is, but is it easy to check the sump screen? What am I looking for? Not sure whether someone has already described this in this huge thread! I guess my first thought is - do I need to drop all the oil out to check the screen? Of course the oil and filter was just changed a couple of weeks ago - or at least, that's what the service notes say.

I do have the Gregory's service and repair manual but I admit, I bought that mainly to work on issues like the cargo net, it's been a long time since I changed the oil in a vehicle!

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Be very worried or get it fixed

Hi folks. I have read a number of the pages on this thread - my commiserations to everyone who has been stung by this problem. The main reason I am here is that I have a 2007 D4D Prado, and it has just recently started puffing a cloud of grey/black smoke at startup and moving off from idle - not all the time, but frequently. Until about 10,000km ago it never really blew any smoke.

I don't have any noticeable rattle (other than normal noises) that I can tell. I am not sure whether I should be worried or not? The smoke is definitely not white, which seems to be most often mentioned in this thread. It has been recently serviced at Toyota, where they performed a "Motor vac - combustion clean" and checked that all the injectors were in range (no values reported). The smoke continues, so they've recommended I bring it in overnight for a cold start tappet clearance and compression check.

It doesn't seem like I have quite the same problem as this thread is talking about, but it is too close to ignore, so I thought I'd ask if this sounds like the same problem...any thoughts?

Thanks.
Ivan

Hi,

Anyone with a 1kd-ftv that either still has copper seats or not had the injectors checked by an expert should be worried.

What month 07 is it? Sounds like it may have the old copper seats. Not good for any vehicle. When the leak it can eventually cause the smoke you describe & it will likely get worse. The real problem is, if this is the case, your oil pickup will be starting to get blocked, causing some oil starvation.
If left, with no further warning the engine will seize. Although this is not so common, because most get found in time, it's not what will make you happy.
How many Klm's has it travelled?

Then your not in the clear yet, I have seen many examples at many different Toyota dealers where they have said the injectors are ok.
I have also had conversations with them & other diesel specialists who tell me the feedback spec of + or - 5 or 3 to 5 is ok.
This is all in fact completely wrong! Up to 3 is within range. My opinion is a bit lower maybe 2.5, you have to look at the other readings its not feedback volumes alone. Look at the whole picture.

The injectors need to be monitored, they need to be changed when they go out of range or near it. If the injectors are not watched, as a part of every 10,000k service, uneven spray patterns, leaking, blocked & over fuelling will one day cause problems like a cracked or holed piston.

In my opinion, this can all be avoided or at least reduced to a minimum, by implementation of new servicing programme, different to the one is your service manual.

Don't worry, just find an expert & get the work done, check & clean oil pickup ( if required) & throw a fresh set of injectors in, clean up the egr system, & a bit of other related work & you will be glad you had the problem, because it will drive like new afterwards if the work is done right.

For those reading this & think it won't happen to me, I suggest you search & find some more info, talk to persons it I'd happen to, or be suprised or lucky.

Happy motoring.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Thanks mjrandom. I know what a sump is, but is it easy to check the sump screen? What am I looking for? Not sure whether someone has already described this in this huge thread! I guess my first thought is - do I need to drop all the oil out to check the screen? Of course the oil and filter was just changed a couple of weeks ago - or at least, that's what the service notes say.

I do have the Gregory's service and repair manual but I admit, I bought that mainly to work on issues like the cargo net, it's been a long time since I changed the oil in a vehicle!

You are on the right track.
One problem is most workshops don't know or care about this issue.
They don't look at your oil pickup.
When the oil is out, you need to look in there & check the mesh is clear, if you have blow by because of the seats leaking, little black particles of carbon will start to stick to the pickup.

14mm sump plug.
Let it drain for a while to save a drip in your eye. Maybe 2hrs if you have the time.

[garbage Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close garbage]

Been following this thread over the years. My 2012 Prado is only up to 26,000 kms. I only drive it about 6,000 kms between services. Is the injector issue related to age or mileage? I have about 10 months left on factory warranty, so would appreciate any recommendations on what to do at the next service.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Ivan, what he ^ said. There are a couple of stickies in the 120 diesel section. Read through the lot. You will need coffee. Later on you will need beer. I realise it just had a service but you need to check that oil pickup (sump) screen. This is really important, more so than injectors. And I had two injectors out of spec with NO symptoms so sadly what most see and hear doesn't always happen.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

Hi,

I have also had conversations with them & other diesel specialists who tell me the feedback spec of + or - 5 or 3 to 5 is ok.
This is all in fact completely wrong! Up to 3 is within range. My opinion is a bit lower maybe 2.5, you have to look at the other readings its not feedback volumes alone. Look at the whole picture.

My local diesel injection specialists (Not Baileys) told me that +/- 3 is within spec for the 120, but they usually start seeing issues from around 2.5

Thanks mjrandom. I know what a sump is, but is it easy to check the sump screen? What am I looking for? Not sure whether someone has already described this in this huge thread! I guess my first thought is - do I need to drop all the oil out to check the screen? Of course the oil and filter was just changed a couple of weeks ago - or at least, that's what the service notes say.

I do have the Gregory's service and repair manual but I admit, I bought that mainly to work on issues like the cargo net, it's been a long time since I changed the oil in a vehicle!

I just ask my local (non-Toyo) mechanics to check the pick-up every service. I've also got a cheap inspection camera from Aldi if I ever wanted to do it myself but figure its just as easy for them to do it whilst its in for a service.

This is what you are looking for:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l-Pickup/page2
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post345982

[ivansky Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ivansky]

Thanks for the responses guys. Actually, my vehicle is a Jan 08 model I just realised, not '07. It has 124K klms on it at the moment. From the photos it looks like I would need to drop all the oil out then inspect the sump screen through the sump plug hole? Sounds like #### is suggesting you can do it by eye, but some people have purchased specialised inspection cameras to get a better look. I don't know if I trust Canberra Toyota on this issue (I can hear you all saying "hell no") so I might ring someone like Cooma Diesel and ask them if they can check the injectors and the sump screen as well - much easier if the car is on a hoist and then I get the benefit of their injector knowledge too. I will try and obtain the values from Toyota and I'm going to ask if they checked the sump screen too.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

What is the build date? I suspect you have the 2nd of three injectors fitted to the 120 D4D. Either way you are probably close. Mine with the 2/3 injectors was out of spec by 130k.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Been following this thread over the years. My 2012 Prado is only up to 26,000 kms. I only drive it about 6,000 kms between services. Is the injector issue related to age or mileage? I have about 10 months left on factory warranty, so would appreciate any recommendations on what to do at the next service.

It's related to fuel quality & engine hours. Highway klms is good. Low range is bad.
Get your Injectors Independently checked by an expert, chances are at this Klm's you should be fine.

My local diesel injection specialists (Not Baileys) told me that +/- 3 is within spec for the 120, but they usually start seeing issues from around 2.5

I just ask my local (non-Toyo) mechanics to check the pick-up every service. I've also got a cheap inspection camera from Aldi if I ever wanted to do it myself but figure its just as easy for them to do it whilst its in for a service.

This is what you are looking for:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l-Pickup/page2
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post345982

Yes imo same as bdg & your diesel, so that 3 think the same, 2.5m3 is where you need to check every month or just change them.

Thanks for the responses guys. Actually, my vehicle is a Jan 08 model I just realised, not '07. It has 124K klms on it at the moment. From the photos it looks like I would need to drop all the oil out then inspect the sump screen through the sump plug hole? Sounds like #### is suggesting you can do it by eye, but some people have purchased specialised inspection cameras to get a better look. I don't know if I trust Canberra Toyota on this issue (I can hear you all saying "hell no") so I might ring someone like Cooma Diesel and ask them if they can check the injectors and the sump screen as well - much easier if the car is on a hoist and then I get the benefit of their injector knowledge too. I will try and obtain the values from Toyota and I'm going to ask if they checked the sump screen too.

You may have updated seats, however at 6 years & those Klm's I suggest it's time or a new set of injectors.

[OldGreyFart Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close OldGreyFart]

Thanks for the responses guys. Actually, my vehicle is a Jan 08 model I just realised, not '07. It has 124K klms on it at the moment. From the photos it looks like I would need to drop all the oil out then inspect the sump screen through the sump plug hole? Sounds like #### is suggesting you can do it by eye, but some people have purchased specialised inspection cameras to get a better look. I don't know if I trust Canberra Toyota on this issue (I can hear you all saying "hell no") so I might ring someone like Cooma Diesel and ask them if they can check the injectors and the sump screen as well - much easier if the car is on a hoist and then I get the benefit of their injector knowledge too. I will try and obtain the values from Toyota and I'm going to ask if they checked the sump screen too.

I had my injectors done about 3 months ago by Gary Shepherd Motors in Queanbeyan. These are the BDG recommended outfit. Gary has a 120 (Petrol) and his son who did the work is very knowledgeable.

[ivansky Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ivansky]

Thanks Terry - I will look into perhaps getting it done at Gary Shepherd based on that recommendation. Are you willing to share how much it cost - did you get your injectors all replaced?

Ivan

[gumboot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close gumboot]

Hi guys,

Just to clarify, the breakdown of our 'usual' charges are:
$1298 for 4 injectors
$ 275 for basic remove + refit of injectors
$ 220 for complete intake and EGR removal, cleanout and re-fit (only done if required)
$ 330 (worst case scenario) for Suction Control Valve - fitted (only done if required)
$ 330 complete set of fuel lines (only done if required)

So the whole box and dice drive in / drive out is a worse case scenario of $2453. Most come in under $2000.

Hope this helps

Good job on getting the prices to more realistic levels Matt, too many expensive cowboys out there.
Its not rocket science.
Cheers