diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Sean Parky Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Parky]

Matt and John thanks for your replies and John thanks for the call. Very imformative and very glad i found this forum. Ive hopefully caught it before any damage has been done. Can see its very dissapointing that toyota hasnt come to the party to help people out with the design fault. Have told the wife to cease driving immediately until the sump is looked at first. As you can imagine its all my fault ( not a really happy camper). Makes it hard when its the only car we have but hoping to have it sorted asap.
Sorry John i think i asked but again if the sump screen is ok is it ok to use until the injectors or washers replaced or do you advise not to just in case injectors are dribbling. Last thing i want is a blown hole in a piston. Wife is wanting to drive kids to the school and do the shopping.

Matt do you have a link to the site your referring to. Cheers again fellas.

[redstorm Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close redstorm]

Redstorm's questions first. Mate, once the supply pump stops turning, the pressure in the rail drops off pretty quickly. You could say that by the time the block cools down to cold, there will be no pressure in the rail.
Looking at your data list there, this was definitely a cold start check because of the coolant temperatures being 17 degrees C.
You are right to comment on the active test as on this version of software, I think it is a very good idea to run an active test on the vehicle. Also, I noticed the total volume being twice the specs as well. It is supposed to be in between 5 to 12mm3. One more reason to do the active test with the Techstream software.
I do like the Intelligent Tester Tool II over this software version, because the data list has more information in it, and you don't have to really do an active test. It's also more portable then a notebook.
There are a couple of other areas that will cause the black smoke situation. The EGR valve being fouled. Those cheap aftermarket air filters or a clogged or dirty filter will cause this problem. The hoses being left off the valve set, vacuum control. The MAF sensor range is from 5 to 12g/sec at 750 rpm. This also needs to be checked as your reading there is out as well, probably because the engine was not going. The engine needs to be on to check this properly, but it's something I always check.
Another area that has been a bit common in other engines other then the 1KD-FTV, has been the coolant temperature sensor. I have not changed one out on the 1KDs yet.
There have been a few injector drivers that have poohed themselves as well, but I haven't seen any of them yet either.
As outlined above, the most common causes are the air filter thing, the injectors being out of range, and the EGR valve being clogged.
How is everything going Adam, up there in the north west, mate?
Hope this helps, the Roo.

Thanks Roo

Ok so hear are the values when it is running cold and when warmed up.

Cold
http://www.geektech.co.nz/images/enginerunningcold.jpg

Warmed up
http://www.geektech.co.nz/images/datalisthot.jpg


Results:
Injector volume (5mm3 - 12mm3):
Cold slightly high at 13.27mm3 (884rpm)
And when warm drops within range 10.45mm3

MAF (8g/s - 13 g/s)
Cold 11.83gm/sec (884rpm)
Warm 6.6gm/sec (709rpm)

MAP ( 95kPa - 105kPa)
Cold 98kPa
Warm 98kPa

Common Rail Pressure: (30MPa - 40MPa at idle)
Cold 50MPa
Warm 39MPa


I did perform an active test on all injectors one by one and each one causes the same rough idle when cut off so all injectors appear to be operating normally.

I ran a few of the other active tests. the EGR system test when switched on caused the idle to appear smoother.

I also graphed the common rail pressure and MAF sensor and they appear to be doing their thing when the engine is accelerated.

MAF
http://www.geektech.co.nz/images/maf.jpg

Common Rail Pressure
http://www.geektech.co.nz/images/commonrailpressure.jpg

I haven't tested the common rail under acceleration as the truck will go from 100kmh to 140kmh no trouble at all.

So to recap their does not appear to be any glaring issues with the injection, all sensors appear to be working.

With the MAF a bit low at idle i am going to clean/change the air filter.

The initial problem was blowing excessive white smoke on cold start only.
I was told that white smoke un-burnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream.
With the injection system coming up relatively clear of issues im now off out to the garage to measure the glow plugs.

I will report the findings back here.

[cfryback Find all posts View Profile Close cfryback]

The initial problem was blowing excessive white smoke on cold start only.
I was told that white smoke un-burnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream.
With the injection system coming up relatively clear of issues im now off out to the garage to measure the glow plugs.

I will report the findings back here.

White smoke is the first stage of injector seals failing -have a look at my pictures of total seal failure. Got the same thing of white smoke on cold start.

[redstorm Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close redstorm]

White smoke is the first stage of injector seals failing -have a look at my pictures of total seal failure. Got the same thing of white smoke on cold start.

White smoke or blue smoke due to engine oil leaking into the combustion chamber past the compromised seals? These D4D's are a mine field. if i can get this 1KD sorted its going to be sold straight away and ill keep my older 1KZ that runs smother and performs really well.

I guess its down to either glow plugs (relatively cheap fix) or down to injector seals also not too bad as the injectors on this engine appear to be not too bad. as the inter-cooler needs to come off for both im wondering if i should bite the bullet and just replace both the glow plugs and the injector seals at the same time while its apart.

[jamieprado Member Find all posts View Profile Close jamieprado]

Hi John, i gotta say, every time I see you post something I get that warm fuzzy feeling inside seriously though, I (as do many others) really appreciate your dedication to this thread/forum.

I bought my 07 D4D GXL from QLD about 6 weeks ago and drove it straight back home to Sydney. I don't know if it had injector issues when I bought it as we haven't really used it that much and I have only noticed the white smoke and injector rattle in the last 2 weeks. Anyhow, it's getting dropped off to Toyota tonight for a cold start test tomorrow morning and they are dropping the oil as well to check the pickup. It has 85K on clock and the vin says it runs the 316 type injectors. Still undecided on where i will source the injectors from but as i live 30mins from Baileys I may go this way if convinced and report back to the forum. Either way your advise to clean out the elbow, the EGR valve, the extension housing, and the throttle body/venturi will be followed. (i just hope my pipes are OK...)

I also just discovered that it needs a couple of engine mounts too, having owned a 1KZ previously, these 1KD issues are new to me.

Looking forward to posting in the My Build up thread once my issues are sorted.

Thanks All.

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Jamie Prado;

Also budget to replace the filters please. depending on the K's, look at replacing the under chassis filter also. To my mind, this is the biggest single cause of the 'loudish diesel rattle at light throttle + 2000RPM' thing. Do all these things at once, and she'll be like new.

[jamieprado Member Find all posts View Profile Close jamieprado]

Thanks Matt, BDG,

Toyota are testing the fuel in the tanks as well and I believe they have to remove the under chassis filter to do this so will be replacing that filter now and the other when the injectors get done.

Cheers,
Jamie

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Jamie Prado;

Also budget to replace the filters please. depending on the K's, look at replacing the under chassis filter also. To my mind, this is the biggest single cause of the 'loudish diesel rattle at light throttle + 2000RPM' thing. Do all these things at once, and she'll be like new.

Matt as I posted in the Dirty Filter thread, that is interesting about filters possibly affecting the rattle. Last winter I noticed that the rattle on my 150 was very audible whilst driving up hill with the engine cold until it warmed up a bit. I changed the under bonnet filter at 40k a few months back (done 50k now) and I will swear that the engine is much much quiter this winter. Very interesting indeed!

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

So is the dirty filter causing fuel starvation? Must be very dirty indeed to do that.

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

MJRandom;

Yeah, its simply a back-pressure issue, and the fact that the rail cannot get to target correctly / quickly. Some people experience this when they fit a secondary filter (which was when we stumbled across it), and it seems to hold true when the filters are passed their used by date.
At this stage, we've stopped short of saying change filter at XXX kilometres, as its quite a unknown factor based upon the fuel purchased, which at best is a hit and miss affair. ie. some may find it needs changing in 10,oook whereas others will get 100,oooK. its too variable - so at this early stage, we're going by noise.

To be honest, i know our R+D team have been keen to fit a small little booster pump and to see what that does, but their schedule is pretty packed at the moment with continuing the CRI and a trick new Locomotive project!

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Thanks for the prompt response guys. Way back when I first bought the 120 and people starting talking about how fine the the tolerances were in common rail diesels I thought about a supplementary filter, the sort of thing that is a pretty common mod these days. I spoke with a well known diesel specialist from NSW and was advised against it because of the possibility of this exact thing happening. So I didn't. I also make sure I buy my diesel only from one supplier. I also change the one or other of the filters alternately each service so no filter is older than 20,000km. I did have injector issues with my 120 but not fuel related (they were the interim non DLC injector fitted Oct/Nov 2007). Having said that I would probably would fit a secondary filter if I wasn't on the coast. Interesting though.

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

John are you again suggesting the fitment of a 2micron filter pre OEM filter?

ie filtering to 2 micron then using the OEM as a seconday filter at 10 micron?

[winniliss Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close winniliss]

John are you again suggesting the fitment of a 2micron filter pre OEM filter?

ie filtering to 2 micron then using the OEM as a secondary filter at 10 micron?

No he's not. It was 30 micron back in the day (which is what I have) but now its 10 micron (which is what I will be replacing to). It sounds a bit silly to have filtration from an aftermarket 2 micron filter going into the OEM filter with a larger micron filter. You don't do that with water filtration and fuels would be the same. You want to stop large particles first and work your way down to the finer ones but that is my opinion.

Winston.

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

Exactly !!

[cfryback Find all posts View Profile Close cfryback]

Speaking of filters - got my oil catch can the other day. Any thoughts about mounting it on the fender wall where the crankcase is?