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  • #16
    Hi, Fuel jet pump and underbody filter problems this is a reasonably common problem as it happened to me leaving Moree in June this year with the caravan hooked on after driving from Sydney to Brisbane then up to Kingaroy then onto Moree on the way back to western Sydney. We fueled up in Sandgate (north Brisbane) and were showing three quarters on the second fuel tank when the car started pulling slightly, at first i thought i had left the caravan handbrake on when we left Moree but further down the track the car conked out on the side of the Newel highway, not good. I primed the pump and managed to start the Prado but was not confident enough to undertake a u turn on the newel highway with the caravan on so decided to call the troops at the NRMA. When i got hold of the local NRMA service guy he said he had two similar Prado problems in the last month and that the problem was trying to get fuel into the main tank to get me back to his service stattion so they could replace the sub tank fuel filter. Dirty fuel was his first diagnosis. The reason you have difficulty in getting fuel into the main tank is there is only a vent on one of the tanks and because the system thinks the main tank is full and therefore not venting. It took and hour to dribble 60 litres of fuel into the tank, we then primed the pump and went like hell back to Moree. The mechanic said we need to go like hell as the fuel return goes into the other tank and not the one we were drawing from so it was likely we would run after an hour or so. Once in Moree I unhooked the van and they put the Prado on the hoist to take off the fuel filter near the tanks and found it to be full of gunk etc, fortunately they had a new filter in stock so fitted it however once they started the Prado the jet pump was not working so could be burnt out he said. I told them to fill the tanks up and i would sort out the problem once i got back to Sydney. When they tried to fill up the tanks with diesel once again it was spitting fuel back so they had to dribble it in until full. After spending $430.00 i went on my way via Mudgee where i decided to top up with fuel just to be sure i had enough however the same spitting back occurred when trying to fuel up so once again dribbled a few litres in so i could get home. Once home i decided to check under the bonnet after reading about a fuel pump fuse and would you believe it contained in the main fuse compartment under the hood was a blown fuse!! I replaced this and turned the ignition on and the fuel guage read full then dropped down to three quarters on the sub tank and the 90 litre light came on. I took the Prado down to the servo and using the truck fill nozzle filled the tanks up with no problems at all. Bloody thank goodness for that as i was thinking i was up for a new jet pump costing around $1000.00. Ironically the Toyota service departments do not seem to understand how the fuel system works at all and apparently the dealership in Moree was unaware that there was a second filter underbody near the fuel tanks.
    Guys i am sorry about the long thread but it is important to be able to diagnose the problem first then and then how then how to go about fixing problem. One thing i notice now is when i first turn the ignition on the fuel light comes on with a little 2mm box with lines in it which i think tells me the fuel system is working fine. I have had no more problems since i replaced the fuse and have travelled around 10000 ks or so.
    2006 D4D 5 speed auto, Dual batteries Beuadesert 3" exhaust, GPS, 170,000 ks

    Cheers

    Wazza (frederick)

    Comment


    • #17
      Hi all

      Interesting reading - of course I read this post as I recently have had a similar issue. Appeared to run out of fuel with still just under 1/4 of the sub tank left, fortunately in town near service stations etc!

      Vehicle - 120 1kz.

      After priming and starting and conking out again I decided to arrange a Jerry can which got me running again. I went straight to the servo and coughed up a full tank to eliminate a gauge issue - and guess what 20L Jerry + 140L at the pump equals 20L short.

      Therefore not a faulty gauge, as when I ran out I theortically had 20L left in the tank.

      Followed this thread with interest. Pulled out the wiring schematic in the service manual to try and understand the sub tank system and locate this mysterious fuse, which is not labelled as fuel pump or anything similar.

      Apparently the fuses I am looking for are labelled AM1 (50amp), ALT (100amp) and AM2 (30amp). I found all of these in the engine compartment fuse/relay box. Checked and all fine.

      A few questions if I could!

      1. What fuses did others find?
      2. Does anyone have any schematic of the sub tank system including plumbing and wiring etc?
      3. What else should I be looking for?
      4. Has anyone else though of isolating the 'automatic' switching and converting to manual switching for reliability?
      5. Any other advice?

      I also contacted MR CMI toyota to find out if they had had vehicle pass through with similar issues - standard old response - "bring the vehicle in with a full wallet so that we can bend you over with a blind fold on". I actually not only want to fix the problem, but also want to understand it so that if I encounter it in the middle of the red somewhere - I know what to look for!!!~

      Cheers crew

      Cam

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi Cam
        On your KZJ120 there isn't an electric fuel pump, there is a jet pump (using venturi action) in the main tank which draws fuel from the sub tank using the return fuel from the injector pump and leak off lines, so there aren't any fuses that could affect the fuel tank operation. D4D ie the 1KD engine uses an electric fuel pump (and that is the fuse that has blown for some people) to supply the injector pump and draw fuel from the sub tank to the main.
        You could have a blocked jet pump or a cracked pickup tube in the main tank or sub tank. Did you check if the fuel filter was contaminated? Running low on fuel can draw crud and water from the bottom of the tank and block the filter.

        Let us know how you go.


        Ades
        Silver '04 KZJ120~Manual~GXL~Dobinson/Kings lift~Custom valved Ironmans~Detroit Locker~Endless Air~X9 Superwinch~Madman EMS1~TJM Dual Battery~Rhino Roof Tray~120W solar panel~Foxwing awning~Bushskinz UVP~Long Ranger water tank~Bushman fridge~Steinbauer P-Box~Beaudesert 2 3/4"~Airtec Snorkel~TJM Sliders~Prico Boost Gauge~BFG-KO2s~TPMS~GME TX3420~Front and Rear Cameras~Ultimate Camper hanging off the back!

        Comment


        • #19
          Ades

          Cheers, this is great info. Interesting setup by the sounds.

          I will drop the sub tank out I think, and check what you have suggested.

          The first thing I checked (forgot to mention) was the fuel filter. And all good and clean.

          Just one thing, should I be checking the lines and pickup in the sub tank, main tank or both?

          Cheers

          Cam

          Originally posted by adrian5800 View Post
          Hi Cam
          On your KZJ120 there isn't an electric fuel pump, there is a jet pump (using venturi action) in the main tank which draws fuel from the sub tank using the return fuel from the injector pump and leak off lines, so there aren't any fuses that could affect the fuel tank operation. D4D ie the 1KD engine uses an electric fuel pump (and that is the fuse that has blown for some people) to supply the injector pump and draw fuel from the sub tank to the main.
          You could have a blocked jet pump or a cracked pickup tube in the main tank or sub tank. Did you check if the fuel filter was contaminated? Running low on fuel can draw crud and water from the bottom of the tank and block the filter.

          Let us know how you go.


          Ades

          Comment


          • #20
            Sorry mate, just realised you mentioned either tank.

            I will inspect both.

            Originally posted by RealPrado View Post
            Ades

            Cheers, this is great info. Interesting setup by the sounds.

            I will drop the sub tank out I think, and check what you have suggested.

            The first thing I checked (forgot to mention) was the fuel filter. And all good and clean.

            Just one thing, should I be checking the lines and pickup in the sub tank, main tank or both?

            Cheers

            Cam

            Comment


            • #21
              Hey guys,
              Well i wish i had found this thread about 4 months ago. We have now had spend about $2000 to get this problem fixed and now im not sure they have even fixed it.
              We also did some rough road driving before this issue showed up. Towed to toyota and they actually said the fuse was missing. This did not fix the issue (well they said they put a new fuse in, where is it located please?). 1 week later the same problem, which was the first time we supposedly had the fuel tanks off and cleaned (i say supposedly, as it has been later discovered that it was not done properly.) they replaced the fuel filter and flushed the lines.
              skip forward 3 months and 5k kms later, it happens again. This time the tanks are taken off again and the fuel pump replaced (not sub tank the big one at the front).

              Now im not even sure that this was the problem. it sounds more like we have a some sort of crack/hole/internal leak in the main tank? does this sound right? We have a D4D 2006. Guess we will know if the money spent was a waste soon if it happens again as we are nearing 1/2 way on the 90L "light on" tank.

              How would i stand getting them to give us our money back if the pump was not the issue and it was some sort of crack or hole?

              Comment


              • #22
                Has anybody had a successful solution to this 'running out of fuel problem'? It is avoidable, clearly, by not allowing the fuel load to drop to the 'critical' level but, it is annoying that we carry (approximately) 40 litres of fuel that we cannot use. I am about to get serious about solving this problem with my car.

                Thanks in anticipation,
                Burjo

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hi guys, I had the same issue with my 08 gx! Kept running out at about 3/4 of the second tank. So being curious and slightly mech minded I started to poke around but could not find the problem!! Off to the mechanic and he says pump is buggered $1300 + labour later still the same issue:-( so back to the mechanic for another check and more $ he tells me it's good to go again but the same thing. So not wanting to spend anymore dollars I arm myself with the laptop and this great site full of awesome people willing to share, I find there is a busted fuse in the panel under the bonnet!!!! Not sure if the pump was buggered or not cause the mechanic tossed it but the problem is def solved :-)
                  Be sure and check all electrical first as it most likely is as simple as the fuse!!!!

                  Topender

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by topender03 View Post
                    Hi guys, I had the same issue with my 08 gx! Kept running out at about 3/4 of the second tank. So being curious and slightly mech minded I started to poke around but could not find the problem!! Off to the mechanic and he says pump is buggered $1300 + labour later still the same issue so back to the mechanic for another check and more $ he tells me it's good to go again but the same thing. So not wanting to spend anymore dollars I arm myself with the laptop and this great site full of awesome people willing to share, I find there is a busted fuse in the panel under the bonnet!!!! Not sure if the pump was buggered or not cause the mechanic tossed it but the problem is def solved
                    Be sure and check all electrical first as it most likely is as simple as the fuse!!!!

                    Topender
                    Wow!
                    I am aware of a bloke in SA that had his vehicle into Toyota on at least 4 occassions. He could not use any of the sub tank despite it being full. They could not solve the problem after replacing numerous bits including pumps and BOTH fuel tanks so he sold it. Whenever he tried to fil up it took him ages.

                    mlc
                    [B][COLOR=blue]Bitumen: A blatant waste of taxpayers money![/COLOR][/B]
                    [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12197&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=d"]My rig buildup[/URL] [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/album.php?albumid=141"]Mundaring Power Lines Jan 01[/URL] [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuQmi3Tgoe0&feature=feedu=d"]You Tube Video Morgan Quarry[/URL]

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Just gone through the exact same problem. Get 3/4's on 2nd tank and car dies. No fuel, and rear tank full. So ran on main tank all holidays (4,500klm's worth) When you try to fill up, takes about 40min's to put 50ltrs in at a trickle or get blowback.

                      Dropped both tanks (that was fun), have replaced rear pipe assembly ($177) which was told should fix the problem. My Toyota place said the have a couple but mainly high millage ones clogged. Although I don't really think mine was clogged.

                      Haven't had the chance to see if it's working as yet, only finished on sunday.

                      One thing I think may have been the problem is the pump assembly in the main tank ($1,138 part if you need it) I don't think was working properly. When I took it out to see if it was clogged (which it wasn't) I then attached power to it and it didn't work. Had to juggle the internal connector to get it to work. The earth wire connector on the plug had broken a little metal piece in it so I had to bend the tabs a few times to get it to connect properly. Then it worked all the time when I plugged it back onto power.

                      I think this may have been the cause and not the rear assembly which is just pipes. I replaced it anyway as I had already bought one. Hoping that the pump in the main tank (jet pump) is now working properly.

                      Will soon see.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Does the entire pump assembly have to be changed or can the pump be changed? Can an aftermarket pump be used?

                        In my previous toyota, the sender unit could be removed and an aftermarket pump installed. Bosch pumps were under $200.
                        2019 GXL, Bullbar, UHF, Redarc Brake Controller, Tow Bar, Secondary Fuel Filter

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by gxl_d4d View Post
                          Does the entire pump assembly have to be changed or can the pump be changed? Can an aftermarket pump be used?

                          In my previous toyota, the sender unit could be removed and an aftermarket pump installed. Bosch pumps were under $200.
                          Can't see why not. It has a connector at the top of the wires and one at the bottom onto the pump itself. But Toyota says it's a whole unit from them. Quoted $1138 for it. My pump worked fine, just the connector plug was not working but pumped seemed to work fine.

                          Have yet to fill up and then refill once it goes down to see if it is fixed. Will be this weekend so touch wood all good.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Well for now anyway looks like the problem has been fixed. Ran the main tank down to below 3/4's where it always died and went fine. Filled up (118ltrs) and it went in so fast I couldn't believe it. Even faster than before we had the problem. So touch wood all fixed.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              This problem has reared its ugly head on my truck, see here:

                              http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...e-Not-Starting


                              Just to complete the loop!

                              (more) Tears Tony
                              Cheers,

                              Tony

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                my 2008 prado got to the point where it looses power on the second tank. With the motor running, there was fuel dribbling out of the breather just down in the filler pipe work. When it stoped on the side of the road, I got it going by putting 20 litres in it, but couldn't use the second tank. By changing the filter between the tanks, $22.50 from Autopro, it will now use the second tank, but at reduced power, like down 2 gears towing the boat on the same hills than with running on the first tank. Befor I changed the filter under the Prado, I had to dribble fuel into the filler, taking 1/2 hour to fill the dambed thing and anoying other persons waiting to fill.
                                The fuel doesn't dribble from the breather after changing the filter between the tanks, just reduced power on the second tank, it fills fast now. I always use Caltex or shell servoes, but believe shell , caltex, and B.P. all get their fuel from the same place in W.A. Tomorrow I am going to look for a blown fuse , where does a person look?
                                The Prado is a 2008. KD 3 litre diesel, it has done 63.000 k.
                                Thanks in advance for advice, I was consider replacing the toyota system with a manual switched pump to transfer between tanks, paying for a $65,000 vehicle , I did expect better than what I got.

                                Comment

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