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Thread: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

  1. #1

    Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Hi gang
    Been a reader of the forum for a couple of months now, but this is first post. Its a great site

    Had an issue with my '07 D4D this week, which I thought might be of interest, and perhaps help others to avoid the problem. (I'll try to keep it short)
    My fuel gauge was showing just under half, with 90L green light on, so I was thinking I had about 40 litres of diesel in the tank, when the engine died on me. Had RACV come along, mucked around with fuel lines for a while, primed things up, eventually put 10 litres of diesel in it and got it going again.
    I went to servo to see how much I could get into it, figuring maybe gauge was playing up, but could only force about 80 litres into it. So something funny going on.
    Had it at Toyota yesterday, who, after much investigation, discovered there was a fuse which powers a pump on the sub-tank that had not been installed.
    The service guy told me there is a pump which runs for about 10-20 minutes after start up which pumps some fuel from the sub-tank to the main tank, then a gravity feed system takes over to provide a slow transfer as the car is driving. Apparently without the pump in operation the sub-tank was filling more each time I put fuel in, until it was completely full. Without some area of air pocket in the sub-tank, the gravity feed system does not work. Eventually, despite the gauge showing just under half (as there was fuel in the sub-tank), the main tank got to empty point and the engine died.
    Not being majorly mechanically or understanding exactly how the fuel transfer system works, I have to believe this explanation. Havent got the gauge back to where it was when the problem happened, so will have to burn up some fuel to test the theory....and maybe carry a full gerry tank around with me for a while!
    He said the vehicle comes from factory without this fuse fitted, so it is up the pre-delivery team to ensure it is done (which was apparently news to them...great).
    So I wanted to share the story with everyone to possibly help others avoid being stranded on the road-side. Maybe get your Toyota dealer to check for this fuse. Unfortunately I did not find out where it is located so cannot let you know in order to check yourselves. Sorry about that.
    Happy travels
    Matt
    07 VX D4D, ARB Dual Batt, 39L Engel, Black Widow drawers with cargo barrier/fridge slide, HR hitch, 'amts' spare wheel spacer, Mickey T ATZ 4 rib 265/70, AutoCraft Bilstein/Ridepro suspension, GME 3340, ARB compressor

  2. #2
    Addicted PP Member MickL's Avatar
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    From my understanding of the fuel system this sounds like BS to me.
    From what I've read in the factory service manual there is only one electrical fuel pump, the flow from this powers the second "jet" pump. A jet pump uses no moving or electrical parts.

    I'd be happy to Email you the relevent pdf files if you would like.

    Mick
    1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
    Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost!

  3. #3
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    I was under the impression there is a fuel pump in the main tank controlled by the ECU..

    Have a look at these..



    MOD EDIT- Pages from Toyota workshop manual removed. Copyright infringement.

    What I don't understand (not that electrically minded) is the relay part. There doesn't appear to be a fuse there? I thought I remembered seeing a fuel pump fuse in there somewhere and also am not sure if that is the main one or the one for the fuel tank.
    Oct Build 2006 D4D Silver VX 5sp Auto

    On Car - Tint, Rust Proofing, Toyota Tow Bar
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Jacto's Avatar
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    MattyV

    Is there any chance the Toyota dealer told you where this fuse actually is located? Might be worthwhile D4D drivers knowing in case we are out bush and the thing blows then at least we can go through the process of elimination.
    06 GXL D4D, 6spd, Snorkel, ARB bar, XS900 50w HID lights, 55W HID Headlight upgrades, T/bar, 7" GPS, QStarz data logger, 52L Bushman Fridge, Premier winch, Sandgrabbas, GME TX3440, AE4705 antenna, Scangauge II, Dual Batteries, Aero bars & rack, Drawers, 2" Ironman/Rancho/King lift, Under bonnet compressor, Black ducks, Voltage booster, Rear table, AVE TPMS,

  5. #5
    Hi Jacto
    I wasnt on the ball enough to ask where the fuse is located - must have been a bit baffled with all the 'info' that had been loaded onto me at the time. Might see if I can catch up with the guy who handled the issue tomorrow to see if he can tell me
    Will let you know
    07 VX D4D, ARB Dual Batt, 39L Engel, Black Widow drawers with cargo barrier/fridge slide, HR hitch, 'amts' spare wheel spacer, Mickey T ATZ 4 rib 265/70, AutoCraft Bilstein/Ridepro suspension, GME 3340, ARB compressor

  6. #6

    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Hi Matt,
    My 2007 D4D Prado developed exactly the same issue as yours had. Last August, we drove along the Oodnadatta track as the engine suddenly stopped with the fuel gauge sitting on just under half with the green 90l light on. Another friendly traveller helped us out with a jerry can of diesel, so after we filled it into our tank, we were able to move again. At this point we thought that the fuel gauge probably developed a fault somewhere on the rough corrugated tracks we drove on. By the way, the fuel gauge was definetely fine last time we filled up in Alice Springs, when the reserve light was on and we could fill more than 170l into our tank.
    Back in Melbourne, we took the Prado to our Toyota dealer. They had it for one day and told us that the fuel sender on the sub tank is faulty, so they replaced it and we got the car back. However, it happened again, the car stopped with the fuel gauge just under half on 90l light. We called our Toyota Service and they organised a tow truck to get it back into their workshop. After they removed both tanks, they found that we had about 40l of diesel left in the tank. So this means, our fuel gauge was correct, but for some reason we could not use the remaining diesel in the tank. The car was in the workshop for 2 weeks, Toyota replaced the complete transfer pump system plus fuel sender for main and sub-tank. We got the car back again only 1 week ago and guess what, yes, it happend again. Car stopped with 40l left in the tank. Next week, it will go back to the Toyota Service again.
    By the way, I gave them a copy of your post. They told me that they checked for fuses and found them all ok.
    I really hope they will fix it this time. I can understand that technical components can fail, but I would expect a Toyota Service Center to professionally root cause the issue and fix it.
    I will provide an update as soon as our Prado is back from the workshop and we checked if everything is ok.
    Any input wrt to potential root causes for this issue are appreciated. I'll happily pass them on to our Toyota Service Manager.

    Cheers,

  7. #7
    Addicted PP Member MickL's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Any input wrt to potential root causes for this issue are appreciated
    I'd suggest a good place to look would be at the tank/pump pick up, any sort of crack/hole/internal leak would mean the pump is sucking from a higher point in the tank and once the fuel drops to this point it sucks air.

    Mick
    1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
    Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost!

  8. #8

    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MickL
    Any input wrt to potential root causes for this issue are appreciated
    I'd suggest a good place to look would be at the tank/pump pick up, any sort of crack/hole/internal leak would mean the pump is sucking from a higher point in the tank and once the fuel drops to this point it sucks air.

    Mick
    Makes sense Mick,
    The car is going into the Toyota workshop tomorrow. I will point out your advise to them. Let's hope they will fix it. I am going for a WA trip from Melbourne in 4 weeks and I want to be able to use the 180l tank volume down to it's last drop.
    By the way, when I made the booking for the workshop, the service manager indicated that they will mostlikely change the tank (since they have already changed fuel senders and the complete transfer pump assembly). I guess the pick up lines are part of the tank assembly, so that should fix it.
    I'll keep you posted.

    Cheers,
    Gunther


    Got the car back from the Toyota workshop a couple of weeks ago and it appears that the problem is fixed since I could drive the tank empty with the reserve light on. They replaced a pod on the main tank which contains all the pick up lines. I guess your diagnosis Mick was spot on, must have been a cracked line causing an internal leak. Looks like this is not a very common issue on Prado's since I could not find any other case on this forum with the same problem.
    I must have fractured a pick up line somewhere during our trip south of Alice Springs along the Old Ghan Route/ track into Chambers Pillar / Oodnadatta Track / Lake Eyre track from Williams Creek. Some of these track, especially the one to Lake Eyre, were very corrugated and I must admit that I was going quite fast on it and also probably with too much tyre pressure. I'll be more dilligent next time and I won't go into remote areas anymore with some spare diesel in a jerry can. You can never be prepared enough.
    Looking forward to our WA trip now. I absolutely love our Prado despite this experience. It is a fantastic vehicle.

    Cheers,
    Gunther

  9. #9

    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Hi Gunther
    I have 2007 Prado, Gasoline engine that is showing the same symptoms, when the fuel gage is at the middle of the subtask (90 ltr green light on) the car dies until I put more fuel in.
    I tried filling it up but could not put more than 142 liter.
    Do you know exactly which pod the Toyota dealer changed? Any part number picture etc. I called my service manager and he has no idea of such a problem in the Prado
    Cheers
    Mutaz S

  10. #10

    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mutazs
    Hi Gunther
    I have 2007 Prado, Gasoline engine that is showing the same symptoms, when the fuel gage is at the middle of the subtask (90 ltr green light on) the car dies until I put more fuel in.
    I tried filling it up but could not put more than 142 liter.
    Do you know exactly which pod the Toyota dealer changed? Any part number picture etc. I called my service manager and he has no idea of such a problem in the Prado
    Cheers
    Mutaz S
    Hi Mutaz,
    This is what it states on the Pro Forma invoice:
    PRT 2322030011 Pump Assy, Fuel - Main Tank
    PRT 8332060450 Gage Assy, Fuel J702 - Main Tank

    Good Luck.
    Gunther

  11. #11
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    Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Mine also has the same issue. But it only happens every second time I drain the tanks.
    Mine is petrol by the way
    2004 Prado GXL. v6 auto, ARB deluxe bar, exhaust, 2" EFS lift kit, Outback Acc rear bar,
    rallye 2000 spots, roof mount dvd, dig_options stereo, toyota roof bars.
    More to come!

  12. #12
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    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Hi all GREAT SITE.
    New to this forum also new owner of 07 diesel prado. Would like to know on a 180lt tank once the low fuel light comes on how much fuel is left in tank to empty ?

  13. #13
    Addicted PP Member MickL's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-tank fuel pump problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam B
    Hi all GREAT SITE.
    New to this forum also new owner of 07 diesel prado. Would like to know on a 180lt tank once the low fuel light comes on how much fuel is left in tank to empty ?

    Try using the search engine. There are a number of discussions on this. Here's the first one that came up:

    Reserve fuel

    Mick
    1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
    Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost!

  14. #14
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    My 2008 D4D now has this problem. Going into Melville Toyota in Perth next week so have printed out this thread for them. Hopefully it gets sorted quickly. Shall let you know

  15. #15
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    Well they reckon that the fuel pump in the rear tank was stuffed and replaced it under warranty (cost them $1400) They also found metal in the tank so they cleaned it out and changed the filter. Dodgy fuel stations.

    Haven't drained the front tank enough to test if it is fixed yet. Could be a few weeks.

    Melville Toyota were very helpful with plenty of feedback etc.

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