Wheel Alignment data - what works for you?

[Drew Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drew]

G'day everyone,

I had a thread going in the Suspension section but though it might be an idea to start a new one here.

I'm having problems with scrubbing on my front left tyre outer edge since having a OME/Bilstien 50mm suspension lift fitted.

This issue has been covered both here an on 120scool - but I can't seem to get my head around what the best solution to the problem is.

What wheel alignment figures have people found to work best? Should it be different for different vehicles given the exact same suspension set up? If so I can't get my head around the logic of this.

I'm trying to gather some coherent data to give the guy at the wheel alignment place when I take the truck back later this week, just to give him some starting figures rather than "experimenting" with my expensive tyres.

I showed the "expert" the figures that steve_120 quoted, and he just mumbled something like "they aren't very good settings". :roll: I'm worried I'm just getting brushed aside by this bloke. There's also the option of taking back to my tyre place and paying them to start again, but that sucks when I paid the "expert" $110 through my local ARB dealer.

:evil: This is giving me stress. I just want it to work and not chew expensive tyres.

I'd really appreciate hearing others experiences and what worked for them, I know it's been covered before but it all still seems foggy to me as to what actually works.

So far I can find the following:

LEFT FRONT -----------I ---------------RIGHT FRONT
FINAL / BEFORE ----------------------------- FINAL / BEFORE

-0.0 -------........... ----------CAMBER ------------ -0.0 ------- ............
1.5 --------- 0.8 ------------- CASTOR ------------ 1.3 --------- 1.3
1.0mm ------........... ------------- TOE -------------- 1.6mm ------- .........


-------------------------- FRONT--------------
--------------------- FINAL---- / ------ BEFORE
CROSS CAMBER-------0.0 -------------- .......
CROSS CASTOR -------0.2 ------------. -0.5
TOTAL TOE ----------2.5mm ------------ .......

CASTOR (LHS/RHS): 0 deg 55 min / 0 deg 56 min

CAMBER (LHS/RHS): 0 deg 03 min / 0 deg 05 min

TOE (LHS/RHS): +1 mm / +1 mm

FRONT

Castor:
L Before +3.00 After +3.37
R Before +3.10 After +3.07

Camber:
L Before -0.15 After +0.01
R Before +0.00 After +0.02

Toe:
L Before -0.00 After +0.04
R Before +0.05 After +0.04

King Pin Inclination:
L Before +11.40 After +11.24
R Before +11.52 After +11.46

Setback:
Before +0.18 After +0.08

All these figures are making my head spin!

Thanks,

Drew.

[mansour Member Find all posts View Profile Close mansour]

Explination of the Data

Mate ,

The alignment should make both Right and Left reading almost identical From what I saw I t seems your right tyres has more +ve inclination thatn the left and the castor indicate that something wasnt done correctly'by the so called (Expert)

I am no expert my self , but I was educating my self about wheel alignment because of a recent issue .

A very informative web page is attached below that can make those figures make sense of a dogy wheel alignment job the guys had done on youyr rig

The web link is http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

I hope I was of any help here

[Fazza Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fazza]

Drew,
Just to add to your stress,

There is not a lot of difference with all of the figures you have been given other than the Caster angles, but rest easy as Caster does not wear tyres if the angles are relatively even.

Caster:- If settings are not known suggest :-
Left 1.1/4 deg pos.
Right 1 deg pos.

Camber will cause tyre wear if excessive Pos or Neg.
If settings are not known suggest :-
Left 0.
Right 0 deg + 3 mins(slight bias to right)

"TOE IN" is the most critical setting of all. Excessive toe in or out is the worst setting to be wrong, as it can cause very rapid wear to your tyres (basically wiping the tyres down the road)

The toe setting should be 0 to 1mm.

I would suggest that the final toe check be done with the vehicle loaded.
(Some cars have a bump steer effect, or in other words the toe setting may change with load,eg heavy braking as against acceleration) To see if this setting changes the weight of one person on the front of the vehicle is a good check.

The reason for the slight bias with the Camber & caster is make the vehicle steer very slightly to the right, thus off setting the Camber of the road effect. In America you would obviously make the settings biased to the left.

Question. How do you steer a wheel barrow?

Answer. You tilt it in the direction you want it to go.

Thats is why the slight camber caster variation.

Fazza. (bit long winded but hope that helps)

[phil Member Find all posts View Profile Close phil]

Drew just bought ats suspension the other day haven't got it yet still on way over here.
Talked to guys down there and they are sending me wheel align specs for lifted prado 120. He said the toe figure was slightly higher then when standard apart from that not much else.
I will post specs on here when i get it.
The only other thing i can think of is that your spring and shock rates are not matched that might cause tyres to wear uneven on the inside edges.
Fazza is right on the money. Cheers Phil

[Blokeman Member Find all posts View Profile Close Blokeman]

For what it's worth Drew the p_pickford one, that's mine. I've done thousands of k's on it and the steering and tyre wear is perfect. My setup is stock though, what difference would it make? Stuffed if I know, the technical side is too much for me. Trolling forums it seems the only guy who is really reliable is the Geelong fella. I'd look for a crusty old tyre guy who knows his stuff, a wheel alignment is only $40 so I'd go shopping around. Oh and stay away from the first place you went! Good luck...

[Drew Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drew]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Phil, when are you expecting this data to arrive? I was thinking of getting this looked at this week.

I've gotta decide between taking it back the the truck alignment place that Macquarie used or paying my tyre bloke to start again. At least I've been dealing with the tyre bloke for years and he's always come up with the goods. He also always gives me a print out of the alignment data every time, the truck aligner never bothered doing this, so I think I'll take it to my tyre bloke.

Toyota have released new alignment data - I'll phone them tomorrow and post it here.

Thanks again for the help,

Drew.

[phil Member Find all posts View Profile Close phil]

I ordering suspension late last week so should be in next couple days I hope.
Might give em a ring tomorrow and find out.
Make sure you rotate tyres before alignment if they have worn uneven.

Phil

[Fazza Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fazza]

Blokeman

"I am a crusty old guy"

Fazza :roll: :lol:

[Blokeman Member Find all posts View Profile Close Blokeman]

Blokeman

"I am a crusty old guy"

Fazza :roll: :lol:

That would explain your excellent post Fazza. I always trust the experienced guy who asks questions about your setup, and can quote stuff off the top of his head.

[Drew Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drew]

Fixed at last!

Just got to work from the tyre bloke. He's a wizard - the 120 feels like a different truck. I'm very happy. Ben at Hawkesbury Tyres and More is the man. :-) I'm never going back to Jonesy's. :x

For the archives, here are the figures:

Before
Castor 10°
Left: +1.30°
Right: +1.03°

Camber
Left: -0.23°
Right: +0.03°

Cross camber
-0.26°

Individual toe
Left: -2.0mm
Right: -2.1mm

Cross toe
+0.2mm

Total toe
-4.1mm

After
Castor 10°
Left: +1.35°
Right: +0.88°

Camber
Left: -0.25°
Right: +0.01°

Cross camber
-0.25°

Individual toe
Left: -0.4mm
Right: -0.6mm

Cross toe
+0.3mm

Total toe
1.0mm

I've only driven a few kilometres, but it feels like a totally new vehicle. Can't wait for the drive home up the mountains.

Thanks everyone for the advice and replies,

Drew.

[Blokeman Member Find all posts View Profile Close Blokeman]

Just for the record, would this setup also be ideal for any 120, any 50mm lift, or do you think this is suitable just for Drew's specific setup? I would tend to think the latter. Fazza?

[Fazza Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fazza]

Hey Drew how close is that to what I suggested.

Fazza
:wink: :wink:

[Fazza Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fazza]

Just for the record, would this setup also be ideal for any 120, any 50mm lift, or do you think this is suitable just for Drew's specific setup? I would tend to think the latter. Fazza?

SorryBlokeman,
It appears we were posting at the same time.
I would suggest that those settings would be good for any 120 regardless of height as long as a loaded check is carried out just to make sure you don't have a bump steer effect or change under load.(remember weight of one person on front for final check of toe)
You should end up with 0 toe under load.

Fazza

[phil Member Find all posts View Profile Close phil]

Drew got a fax today from ATS for 120's with 55mm lift.

Set camber no more than -0.30 degrees
Set toe to pos 1-2mm
Set caster to pos 0.30 degrees
they have mentioned that caster is critical!!
and watch lhf toe for tyre wear.

I will give this a go when i fit my lift.
Cheers Phil.

[Drew Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drew]

Drew got a fax today from ATS for 120's with 55mm lift.

Set camber no more than -0.30 degrees
Set toe to pos 1-2mm
Set caster to pos 0.30 degrees
they have mentioned that caster is critical!!
and watch lhf toe for tyre wear.

I will give this a go when i fit my lift.
Cheers Phil.

I don't understand the difference in the castor angles. I thought my pilot's theory was a headful! :lol:

Driving home, albeit half asleep, it feels a lot better, still feels different to pre-lift but I guess that's to be expected regardless of the wheel alignment settings.

Good luck with your lift Phil, are you doing it all yourself? I expect to see some photos and a bit of a write up. :lol:

Cheers all,

Drew.