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  • Sovereign bar, non Toyota winch?

    Hi, (Lurkers first post). I got a Sovereign bar thrown in with my 2003 Prado, I was wondering if anyone has a non Toyota winch in the Sovereign bar? I was hoping the winch cradle from the dealer would allow me to mount a Warn 9000 or similar. I've seen the older post on this, but would welcome any more info.
    Off Topic - Good web site BTW, went through a few reseaching the purchase. Ended up getting a 3 Lt TD, happy so far, took it through the big dunes near Pemberton and the Prado just cruised through. All I have to sort out is if I can (carefully) use the Hilift jack in the alloy bar, I will do a gentle test but I'm not hopeful. It does feel fairly thick metal. At the back I'm also curious if I can use the Toyota towbar tongue to slip the Hi-Lift jack into, I can't see anywhere else to use it on the back. The front tow hooks look fairly strong, I'll see if it can be snatched with a bridle to share the load.
    Thanks, Paul...

  • #2
    It's a bit sad answering my own post eh? I managed to get into town and do some shopping. To his credit the guy at a 4wd specialty shop said the best thing I should do is get the Toyota setup, he said it was pretty good, solid state, no solenoids? The Toyota dealer quoted $1580 for their winch and $175 for the cradle. I think thats the way I'll go.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi echelon,

      I just stumbled across this old post, I wonder how you got on? I just installed a non-toyota winch on the Sovereign bar myself. It was a tough job but I'm happy with the end result.

      I will post more details on my installation when I get time.

      Drew.
      2005 Toyota LandCruiser GRJ120R Prado "Pilbara" (GX+) Petrol V6 5 Speed Auto, ARB AirLocker rear diff locker, Safari Snorkel, Bilstein Shocks, OME 2" Lifted Springs, PolyAir airbags, bash plates, Icom HF Transceiver, Uniden UHF CB, HID and LED lights, Black Duck seat covers, Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, Redarc Dual Battery Controller, ATS4X4 Side Steps/Rock Sliders.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Drew
        Hi echelon,
        I just stumbled across this old post, I wonder how you got on? I just installed a non-toyota winch on the Sovereign bar myself. It was a tough job but I'm happy with the end result.I will post more details on my installation when I get time.
        Drew.
        Hi Drew, I'd love to hear how you did it, especially the model you used etc. I have the sov winch bar, but no winch or cradle.
        2001 HZJ105 Turbo Cruiser
        My Stuff [url=http://paulpickford.com/][u]Here[/u][/url] and [url=http://paulpickford.com/prado/][u]Here[/u][/url]

        Comment


        • #5
          G'day Blokeman,

          Firstly - welcome to the forum. Second - man I love your avatar. That kicks arse, I've got a get a shot of my 120 like that!

          Okay - the winch. I've been going to write a tech article on it but have been too busy.

          I ended up getting a Repco winch. Don't laugh. The money I saved meant I could but heaps of other stuff for the Toyota. I went for the 12,000lb model - it was on special in January for $685 or thereabouts.

          I stripped the winch down and cleaned the crappy Chinese grease out of the gearbox - just as well I did - I found a steel pin in there that surely would have been a show stopper before too long. I repacked the gearbox with Castrol LMM grease after giving all the gears a real close inspection. The gearbox is very well made and is a fine enough design - I guess their assembly plant quality control is somewhat lacking.

          After repacking the gearbox it felt like a different machine.

          I then pulled the motor apart and inspected the electrics. It seemed all okay (I work in electronics and have a bit of an idea what to look for). So I water sealed the motor with silicone and put the whole lot back together.

          Now on to the meaty stuff. Fitting a winch to the Sovereign bar requires the use of a steel winch cradle from Toyota, costing about $160. The alloy bar needs to be removed from the vehicle and the cradle bolted inside it. I borrowed a workshop crane from work and it's just as well I did because I wouldn't have been able to do the job without it.

          The instructions that came with the Toyota supplied winch cradle say to bolt the winch up to the cradle that is already bolted to the alloy bar - then get an assistant to lift up the entire assembly while you bolt it to the vehicle. Who are they kidding? The whole lot has got to weight in excess of 150kg. Maybe they thought my assistant was Arnie or Mr Universe. This is where the crane came into it's own.

          Bolting the winch into the bar was a bit of a challenge as the supplied bolts were the wrong size - thankfully I had a bunch of high tensile bolts in the workshop at home.

          The fairlead hole in the Sovereign bar isn't exactly square (or rectangular) so the fairlead needed to be altered slightly with the angle grinder.

          Bolting the whole lot up to the vehicle was a bit of a challenge - there's a lot of things to line up and a lot of room for things to not line up if you know what I mean. I ended up getting it on and it sits just fine, doesn't look any different than before.

          The electrics were uneventful, I chose the mount the electrics where Toyota put theirs, inside the top of the bar, out of the way. A bit of a squeeze but it worked.

          All up the install took about 8 hours or so - I had a mate helping me - the crane sure made it happen though, no way without it.

          The winch performs like a gem, I've tested it a couple of times and used it anger to winch myself and another vehicle slingshot style. It's great. I've also been in mud/water up to the grille and everything still works. I'm kinda fussy with maintenance - the electrics are siliconed up to keep the rain out and after a wading trip everything gets a bath in WD-40. I've done quite a bit of rough off-roading since I installed it and everything is still hanging together like a gem.

          I suggest Ironman 4x4s recovery kit - it sells for about $280 - has absolutely everything you need and most important of all - it's NATA tested and approved. Nothing worse than using dodgy recovery gear and having something go wrong.

          Would I do it again? Well - if I already had the Sovereign bar - yes - I can't justify the expense ditching the bar and starting all over again. Flying lessons are expensive and I need all the help I can get on my pissy wage! :-)

          If I was starting from stratch - I'd give some serious thought to a winch bar - I know the install job would've been so much easier that way.

          Hope this helps - don't hesitate to fire away with any questions - hope the reply hasn't been too long-winded for you.

          I'll post some photos when I get a chance.

          Further reading: http://snipurl.com/1cexg <-- helped me decide that Chinese winches weren't all that evil.



          Cheers,

          Drew.
          2005 Toyota LandCruiser GRJ120R Prado "Pilbara" (GX+) Petrol V6 5 Speed Auto, ARB AirLocker rear diff locker, Safari Snorkel, Bilstein Shocks, OME 2" Lifted Springs, PolyAir airbags, bash plates, Icom HF Transceiver, Uniden UHF CB, HID and LED lights, Black Duck seat covers, Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, Redarc Dual Battery Controller, ATS4X4 Side Steps/Rock Sliders.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Drew, what a top reply, that was a lot of typing. It's excellent that it is out there now, there is no info on the internet that I can find. You saved about about 50% of the cost of a Toyota one, granted the chinese one was suspect but the teardown probably reduced the risk of any problems. Unless you are a diehard competition type, and if you were you probably wouldn't have a Prado, I'm sure you will be fine with occasional use. I've got a 30 year old winch on my 45 and I have never needed it, I tore it down as well and washed out a solid grease lump, so am familiar with that chore. I'll buy the cradle and start looking for a winch. Thanks.
            2001 HZJ105 Turbo Cruiser
            My Stuff [url=http://paulpickford.com/][u]Here[/u][/url] and [url=http://paulpickford.com/prado/][u]Here[/u][/url]

            Comment


            • #7
              From memory, (can't find a previous post elsewhere):

              Tabor (Magnum), Premier and I think the 8000 Warn, Repco, Ironman and one of the T-Max will fit as they have same mount bolt pattern as the X9 from toyota but as above, fairlead is a problem. I think the Warn 9000 is too long and tall in the body. Was checking them all out to do the same install but the ball and chain decided she needed a new house so still waiting. You'll also have to set it up so you can get into the clutch release which isn't easy with the Sovgn Bar.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AJs Prado
                ....but the ball and chain decided she needed a new house so still waiting.
                :shock: Bloody hell, that's what I call a show stopper. :lol:

                Originally posted by AJs Prado
                You'll also have to set it up so you can get into the clutch release which isn't easy with the Sovgn Bar.
                My clutch is reasonably easy to get to - just reach in the open bonnet and it's there on the back (radiator) side of the gearbox.

                I'll take some photos as soon as I can. I just got home from work (2330) and I'm up early tomorrow to pack the wife and daughter off to my family farm - so this weekend doesn't look good, hope to get some snaps next week.

                BTW, I forgot to mention to Blokeman, I had to do a little modification to the Toyota cradle, the end of the gearbox hits one of the ribs in the cradle - so I used the grinder and modified the rib. I'm not concerned about strength, the cradle is very over-engineered and I only had to take off a few mils. I also had to knock a bit off the rib on the other (motor) side to accommodate the earth cable connection. I think I took some photos at the time, I just need to get them off the laptop and upload them. (Next week).

                Cheers,

                Drew.
                2005 Toyota LandCruiser GRJ120R Prado "Pilbara" (GX+) Petrol V6 5 Speed Auto, ARB AirLocker rear diff locker, Safari Snorkel, Bilstein Shocks, OME 2" Lifted Springs, PolyAir airbags, bash plates, Icom HF Transceiver, Uniden UHF CB, HID and LED lights, Black Duck seat covers, Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, Redarc Dual Battery Controller, ATS4X4 Side Steps/Rock Sliders.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Drew, got all that. Looking forward to the pics when you can manage it.
                  2001 HZJ105 Turbo Cruiser
                  My Stuff [url=http://paulpickford.com/][u]Here[/u][/url] and [url=http://paulpickford.com/prado/][u]Here[/u][/url]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Okay here are a couple of pics while I'm on the laptop before I head off:


                    Dodgy photo, but this is some of the detail of how I had to modify the fairlead.






                    Another dodgy photo, this is the bar with the winch cradle attached.


                    The bar off the vehicle, as I said - the crane was a godsend.

                    I haven't taken any photos of the completed install - might get a chance this weekend.

                    Cheers,

                    Drew.
                    2005 Toyota LandCruiser GRJ120R Prado "Pilbara" (GX+) Petrol V6 5 Speed Auto, ARB AirLocker rear diff locker, Safari Snorkel, Bilstein Shocks, OME 2" Lifted Springs, PolyAir airbags, bash plates, Icom HF Transceiver, Uniden UHF CB, HID and LED lights, Black Duck seat covers, Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, Redarc Dual Battery Controller, ATS4X4 Side Steps/Rock Sliders.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for all the tips. I imagined disassembling the bar, and reassembling it like when it was new. But if I do it your way with an engine hoist it would save all the setting up and adjusting.
                      2001 HZJ105 Turbo Cruiser
                      My Stuff [url=http://paulpickford.com/][u]Here[/u][/url] and [url=http://paulpickford.com/prado/][u]Here[/u][/url]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pradogxlv6
                        is your sov bar a winch bar or just a garden variety sov bar ?
                        Matt,

                        See my post here. The "winch cradle" I refer to is fitted inside the standard Sovereign bar, so there is (AFAIK) only one type of Sovereign bar (apart from the GX one without the foggies) and all Sovereign bars need to have the winch cradle fitted if you are installing a winch.

                        Hope this clears it up some.

                        Drew.
                        2005 Toyota LandCruiser GRJ120R Prado "Pilbara" (GX+) Petrol V6 5 Speed Auto, ARB AirLocker rear diff locker, Safari Snorkel, Bilstein Shocks, OME 2" Lifted Springs, PolyAir airbags, bash plates, Icom HF Transceiver, Uniden UHF CB, HID and LED lights, Black Duck seat covers, Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, Redarc Dual Battery Controller, ATS4X4 Side Steps/Rock Sliders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I believe Drew is correct, here are the part numbers:

                          PZQ29 60161 Alloy Sovereign Bar - Winch Capable - Polished
                          For The GX

                          PZQ29 60165 Alloy Sovereign Bar - Winch Capable - Polished
                          For GXL and Grande

                          PZQ29 60160 Alloy Sovereign Bar - Winch Capable - Powder Coated
                          For GX

                          PZQ93 00020 Superwinch 9000lb Low Mount

                          PZQ29 601WC Superwinch Fitting Kit
                          2001 HZJ105 Turbo Cruiser
                          My Stuff [url=http://paulpickford.com/][u]Here[/u][/url] and [url=http://paulpickford.com/prado/][u]Here[/u][/url]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Matt a 6000lb winch doesn't sound that strong for a vehicle wieghing 2000 plus kg. Don't forget that a winch is only rated at 6000lb with minimum amount of cable on drum. Still should get you out of trouble 8) .
                            Cheers Phil.
                            [size=1][b][i]07 D4D GXL PRADO 6spd man.[/i][/b][/size]
                            [size=7][color=blue][i]BFG AT tyres 265/70/17,55mm ATS suspension,tow safe tow bar,Mine Trans seat covers,sandgrabba mats, 60 Litre Engel fridge,front tint,safari snorkle,arb deluxe bull bar, Hella HID lights,760cca dual battery setup,uniden uhf cb, and more to come !![/i][/color][/size]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matt
                              Might have to visit Drew for the day !! What do ya reckon Drew ?
                              I've been living under a rock for a few days so I missed this post. Sorry.

                              Matt, can you fit the vast quantities of beer required in the back of your '120?

                              hehe :lol:

                              I'd be happy to help - just need plenty of notice.

                              Drew.
                              2005 Toyota LandCruiser GRJ120R Prado "Pilbara" (GX+) Petrol V6 5 Speed Auto, ARB AirLocker rear diff locker, Safari Snorkel, Bilstein Shocks, OME 2" Lifted Springs, PolyAir airbags, bash plates, Icom HF Transceiver, Uniden UHF CB, HID and LED lights, Black Duck seat covers, Tekonsha Prodigy trailer brake controller, Redarc Dual Battery Controller, ATS4X4 Side Steps/Rock Sliders.

                              Comment

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