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Building my D563/H&R 675lb/in coilover sleeve front strut combination

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  • Building my D563/H&R 675lb/in coilover sleeve front strut combination

    Hey all,

    I’ve recently been taking a close look at the most optimal valving-coil rate setup for the IFS.

    Real world tested numbers can vary as a function of strut diameter. For example, 2” struts have for a while been using a high rebound-mid range coil rate setup, such as the D563 Bilstein/660lb/in King combination. This setup is 3400N:660lb/in at 0.52m/s. It has been used in FJ’s a lot by our good mate Jason at Sydney Suspension. Feedback from drivers is excellent. This setup is also very close to the OEM 150 spec combination defined by Jim at Quadrant, which uses the 24-173032-1/675lb/in H&R combination. This setup is 3200N:675lb/in. I also know that Ironman offer a 3700N:650lb/in combination for the Prado.

    Larger diameter struts can use significantly different valving-coil rate combinations, for example, 5000N:960lb/in has been used in 66mm struts, with excellent driving quality.

    The plot below shows the Valving-Coil rate connection for typical 2” diameter struts. The lower ellipse is for 120 OEM spec, the upper ellipse for 150 OEM spec. Note that by the time you add bullbars, batteries etc. to a 120, you end up in the 150 spec ellipse, so based on heavier kerb weights, it is actually better to run the 150 OEM spec combination in the 120 IFS.



    You can see that there are several possible high rebound-coil rate possibilities in the 150 ellipse for 2” struts. I am trying the D563/H&R 675lb/in combination in my 120. I am trying the H&R cold rolled coils as theoretically they shouldn’t ever settle/set compared to hot rolled coils. The X/K 675lb/in coil from H&R is only 366mm in free height, significantly shorter than most other after market coils.

    Due to the short length of the H&R X/K coils, I made the decision to put coilover sleeves on my D563’s so I could wind the preload up a lot and dial my ride height in to the millimetre. Even with an extra 10mm of preload past the OEM coil seat position, the X/K coils will still have less preload on them compared to a longer Dobinson or King coil. Below is a photo of the coilover sleeves I purchased from PSR at the Gold Coast.



    The next step in building my struts was to spend an afternoon at Fulcrum to machine a new lower circlip groove, and to delimit the open length of the D563’s from 575mm back to 570mm. The reason for delimiting to 570mm is because I am running the new Superpro camber/caster adjustable upper control arms from Fulcrum, which have the ball joint binding up at 575mm. As such you need to be under 575mm open length on your struts to ensure the IFS droops on the struts and not the ball joint.

    So the next step was to use a 5mm spacer to increase the top-out spacer to 5mm longer, which reduces the open length by 5mm. The photo below shows the D563 being pulled apart.



    The 5mm spacer is then added to the top of the top-out spacer. This also works the other way around - to increase open length, you reduce the length of the spacer.



    After putting the delimited D563 back together and re-gassing with nitrogen to 300kPa, they are ready to have new synthetic polyelastomer bushes pressed in, and a new lower circlip groove machined in for the coilover sleeve. Next photo shows the new circlip being machined.



    After machining the new circlip grooves, the D563’s are ready to dry press the coilover sleeve on. The sleeve needs to be pressed on dry so there is good frictional contact between the strut body and the sleeve to ensure the sleeve cannot slip when you adjust the preload collars with a c-spanner.



    Next photo shows the sleeves pressed on ready for a coil. I have also used the new synthetic polyelastomer material in the strut caps.



    After pressing the the X/K H&R 675lb/in coils onto the D563’s, the final assembled struts are shown below.



    Here you can see the collars getting rotated quite easily in-situ with vehicle weight off the struts, a breaker on the c-spanner makes it easy.



    The BE5-D563-M2 struts I have used are M2 or modification 2 struts, which have slightly higher rebound than the M0 versions. My combination is 3667N:675lb/in.

    So after all of this effort to build these struts, what do I think about them?

    After field testing them with my new Superpro adjustable arms on Fraser Island, I can say that these struts have transformed my Prado. With my Prado over GVM, they performed exceptionally well in the rough stuff. Soft sand, soccer ball sized rutted out high tide stretches, bouncy inland tracks, I hit them all pretty hard, and the handling is a massive improvement. No more pitch or roll that won’t cycle out. I can waddle through the rutted out stuff (with soccer ball sized washout holes), or bang through them at high speed, either way the Prado sits very still through it, and the suspension cycles beautifully.

    On road the low-mid range valving is surprisingly supple, which is more due to getting the correct coil rate. Speedbumps feel smooth at 40km/h. At higher velocities you will feel the higher valving kick in, so a big pothole can feel stiff on the bitumen.

    This front end setup won’t be for everyone, as many won’t like the stiffer feeling of the high rebound on the bitumen. It is off road where this setup will easily outperform softer or mismatched setups.

    I’d also like to add that this front end combination works brilliantly with my rear end setup, 80 series shocks with 3300N:600N matched to a 280lb/in 430mm coil. Everything is cycling very nicely now in the suspension, rather than the Prado lurching, pitching and rolling and requiring braking or slower speeds to control undesirable dynamics. I also have Superpro bushes in my front upper control arms and in my rear upper trailing arms. I believe this is also a big factor in allowing the suspension to articulate more freely. I’m very happy with this setup. My next step is to upgrade the rear shocks to 66mm monotubes to keep the shock fade down in my heavily loaded rear.

    Big thanks to Bevan at Fulcrum who spent a Friday arvo putting these struts together.

    Best

    Mark
    Whitey
    Shockie Maker of the Month Award
    Last edited by Whitey; 20-09-2017, 05:52 PM.
    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

  • #2
    I like. Good work. Took a very close second in the viewing at the Norman but sadly surpassed by Craig's rollerless universal joints.
    My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mjrandom View Post
      I like. Good work. Took a very close second in the viewing at the Norman but sadly surpassed by Craig's rollerless universal joints.
      Thanks mj!

      So when are we doing yours??

      Best

      Mark
      2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Whitey View Post
        Thanks mj!

        So when are we doing yours??

        Best

        Mark
        When what's on it falls to pieces.
        My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

        Comment


        • #5
          Very impressive setup Mark. ( I like it a LOT)

          This will be on my "more realistic" wish list which will replace my 712/713 combo ( the Icons will just have to wait....)


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          2004 V6 Grande. BLACK -

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by craigm View Post
            Very impressive setup Mark. ( I like it a LOT)

            This will be on my "more realistic" wish list which will replace my 712/713 combo ( the Icons will just have to wait....)


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            Hey Craig,

            Icon make nice shocks, but the valving Icon use for 120 platforms (07-10 FJ, 4Runner etc.) is completely unknown. Similarly for coil rates. Presumably these are matched nicely in Icon coilovers, but is the valving-coil rate combination appropriate for a 120 Prado with accessories on it? Probably not.

            Unfortunately Icons are expensive, so I don't have easy access to them for a dyno test. I will find out one day though!

            In the meantime until I win the lotto, I'm more than happy with my front end setup!

            Best

            Mark
            2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Preload won't effect ride height once your off and driving. It'll just make it a tiny bit harsher on small bumps if anything. All you are doing is using up the coils travel, once it compresses past that point it becomes irelivant. This is based on my mountainbike suspension knowledge, so may be wrong for cars, but I can't see how it would be.
              Anyway, otherwise I am happy to follow your wealth of knowledge as I have surpassed mine already. Please can you simply tell me what to buy and from whom, I'm in Canberra. 03 petrol Prado with bull bar, batteries, wife and kids, looking ofr 2" lift.
              Cheers in advance.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey Bush Turkey,

                You are spot on about the harshness and preload. The preload is actually a significant contribution to the final ride height. For the IFS on the Prado, it can be around 25% of the contribution depending on the leverage motion ratio. It's a balancing act between preload and sprung mass that determines the final static coil working height and subsequently the static ride height. Preload scales inversely with the motion ratio of the lower arm as it acts up through the lever, while sprung weight scales directly with the motion ratio as it acts downward through the arm.

                Shorter free height coils will give a softer feel over bumps by virtue of their lower preload, even when they are wound up past the OEM coil seat position. This is because the coil working height ends up being longer, and the dynamic force required to move the coil is lower as the stored energy in the coil is smaller, so you get the suspension cycling properly at lower forces rather than higher.....less bouncy and harsh feeling which can be controlled with the struts at low-mid range velocities rather than at higher rebound where you'll always feel the stiffness.

                Most of the time you'll only feel the mid-low velocity valving driving on the streets anyway unless you go pothole hunting!

                I am biased because I just put Bilsteins back on my Prado after a long time of not having them, but I think Bilsteins are still a very decent bang for buck shock absorber.

                With your family on board, you may want a softer valved setup than what I've described in this thread.

                Give John at Zordos Suspension in Brisbane a call, I'd look at a 120 spec setup, 24-238762/C59-302 on the front, 24-217897/C59-327 on the rear, he may suggest different coils based on your weights.

                Good luck with your new suspension!

                Best

                Mark
                2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey all,

                  In case anyone is wondering what the valving curve for the D563-M2 looks like, here it is compared with two other commonly used Bilstein struts;



                  The behavior of the latest M2 modification of the BE5-D563 which I am running on my Prado is interesting. The bleed circuit in the piston head looks to be differently shaped on the rebound side, with the rebound stack opening up around 100mm/s higher than the 24-173032-1. I can easily feel the front end roll at low velocity, eg. cornering through roundabouts etc.

                  The 24-173032-1 also shows stronger compression Forces in the low-mid velocity range compared to the D563. This may translate to a slightly more bumpy on-road feeling.

                  Best

                  Mark
                  Whitey
                  Shockie Maker of the Month Award
                  Last edited by Whitey; 20-09-2017, 05:54 PM.
                  2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Mark,

                    Do you think this strut would work well with a set of Dobinsons C59-352 (725 lb/in, 385mm) springs?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey Dai,

                      The 352 150 spec Dobinson is quite a high coil rate, my load tests gave 710lb/in. It's past the edge of the ellipse I've defined above, but if you're going to run something to control it you'll want the D563-M2 at a minimum. I think the range of coil rate that the higher rebound works over increases with rebound, so the 352 may be ok.

                      I would initially say a better match to the D563-M2 would be a King coil at 660lb/in. In saying that, I haven't driven a D563/352 combo, so it may feel ok. There is no right or wrong with the valving, lots of calculations, lots of trial vehicle tests, they meet in the middle somewhere. Give it a try!

                      Best

                      Mark
                      2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've read some posts where people have been disappointed with the lift the 660 Kings gave on a fully kitted out car and had to go up to the HDs (800!) to get it back. Although I suppose that could be sorted to an extent by using adjustable spring platforms. It's a fine balance between having enough spring to support the weight but not so much that the shock can't control it.
                        I don't know why but the short length of the H&R spring puts me off it a bit, a throw back to live axle days I guess. Are there any draw backs for our application or benefits of going longer (less preload required?).

                        Regards, Dai

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey,

                          I have less preload on my H&R with it wound up 10mm past the OEM coil seat height compared to a 10mm longer coil at OEM height.

                          Yes lifts can be down on what you want, but if you need to run 800lb/in coils, you'll not only rattle the front bushes to death quickly, you'll also struggle to find struts that will control such high coil rates. Running such a high coil rate on the IFS also means you'll always struggle with vehicle pitch due to never being able to get the front:rear suspension frequency below 1:1. Lifting past 2" on the IFS is also pointless, as above this ride height you'll always lose droop due to the leverage ratio, even with the longest open length struts.

                          You've no doubt heard the old saying "don't use coil rate to lift, use longer coils".

                          Best

                          Mark
                          2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Definitely not looking to lift over 2", just looking for that elusive compromise between road/touring/max travel.

                            It looks like we have similarly specked cars so if 675lb/in is working well for you then it sounds like the longer King at 660 might be a better starting point for me than the Dobinsons.

                            The information you've built up and posted on here is invaluable when trying to make these decisions so thank you for that. I'll be keeping a close eye on how your ironman rear shocks go and if you rate them over the long travel billies.

                            Regards, Dai

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dai View Post
                              Definitely not looking to lift over 2", just looking for that elusive compromise between road/touring/max travel.

                              It looks like we have similarly specked cars so if 675lb/in is working well for you then it sounds like the longer King at 660 might be a better starting point for me than the Dobinsons.

                              The information you've built up and posted on here is invaluable when trying to make these decisions so thank you for that. I'll be keeping a close eye on how your ironman rear shocks go and if you rate them over the long travel billies.

                              Regards, Dai
                              Hey Dai,

                              You can definitely find that compromise you're searching for! I think the King 660lb/in coils will work great in the front with a high rebound strut. There are a plenty of folks driving around with the D563/King 660lb/in combination. Just watch out for that 575mm open length on the D563 if you are running OEM arms, which bind up at exactly the same 575mm length. You'll need to either shorten the strut or run after market arms with longer droop.

                              The rear is a different story, I've already seen bumped out 1478LT's with jammed floating pistons, very tight working room and gas chamber volume at the bottom of the 1478 with closed length at 580mm, yet another reason to make it bump proof and move the floating piston to a piggyback reservoir so it can't happen! I'm definitely looking for something simpler and more bump proof in the rear.

                              Best

                              Mark
                              2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                              Comment

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