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D4D engine failure – injector seals - wrong oil and chip issues

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  • D4D engine failure – injector seals - wrong oil and chip issues

    Most of us are aware of the reports of injector seals failing causing fuel to go into the oil, which in turn blocks the oil pickup causing catastrophic engine failure. As I am about to go on a Simpson crossing, I got my car services and asked that they visually inspect the oil pickup and give me a report before proceeding with the service. Mine was clean.

    Interestingly the Service Manager at that Toyota dealership has a 150 Prado which is close to stock. He is a nice guy and likes to have a chat about my modifications and trips. He purchased his Prado second hand with low kilometers. He informed me that he has done a lot of reading on the problem of the injectors leaking fuel and causing the oil pickup to block as he has just had his engine blow up and similar circumstances.


    He went on to say that the injectors in the Euro model were not the same as the Aust model and that is why there has been not recall here. There are thousands of Hiaces out there with D4D motors with over 500k on the clock not showing this issue. He went on to say that it has been found that in Australia there are two known causes for this issue.


    1. People using the wrong oil and/or continually changing oil types (e.g. Toyota putting in one type of oil at the 10k service and the owner using different oil at a 5k interval, or just using a totally wrong type of oil), and


    2. Chips. His had a chip put in by the previous owner (he would not say what brand). The increased pressure causes the seal to fail and the problem shows.


    His recommendations was to never use a chip that increases fuel pressure to the injectors, as was the case with his.

    I am not enough of a mechanic to know if he is right, but it sounds logical which is good enough for me at this time.

    Steve
    Stephen Bloomer
    I did have - 2010 GXL D4D Auto, ARB bullbar, rails, sliders, winch, 40mm lift, Brown Davis bash plates and long range tank

  • #2
    Good post thank you Steve. Never been keen on getting a chip for my 150 Too many variables.

    Comment


    • #3
      The seat that fails is between the combustion chamber and valve cover so fuel rail pressure has nothing to do with these failures. From my research you can see the seats distorting which allow combustion gases to escape into the rocker space. These hot gases carbonise the lubricating oil and lumps are washed back into the sump. These lumps are drawn against the oil pump inlet screen where they clog the screen and starve the engine of lubricating oil. This shows up with run bearings, scored bores etc.

      I also struggle with the idea that an oil that meets Toyota requirements will cause ANY issue. Any oil will burn if hit with 1000C gas. Use the wrong oil and of course you can have problems.

      I also have a problem with his comment about the Euro injectors. When this problem first started getting posts here (and I had a 120) I played on ToyoDIY and found that Europe already had the 316 injectors when we had earlier versions. Ultimately all 120s had these same injectors fitted. I have not done the same exercise with the 150.

      I do agree about chips in general. While some have had good results from the Stein-lager (sic) chip I wouldn't be fitting any chips to a D4D.
      My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mjrandom View Post
        The seat that fails is between the combustion chamber and valve cover
        So is this a part that can be replaced during a normal service, or is this a dismantle of the top of the motor job?
        Stephen Bloomer
        I did have - 2010 GXL D4D Auto, ARB bullbar, rails, sliders, winch, 40mm lift, Brown Davis bash plates and long range tank

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by smakb View Post
          So is this a part that can be replaced during a normal service, or is this a dismantle of the top of the motor job?
          Hi Steve,
          It's a fairly involved process as you need to remove the intercooler, the fuel lines (internal and external), the valve cover, then the injectors which allows you to replace the "nozzle sheets" and the O-Rings...
          Cheers,
          Jase
          [b]Silver 2008 D4D Auto GXL[/b]
          [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6032]My build up[/url]

          Comment


          • #6
            As Jase has said it needs the rocker cover and everything above it off but the head stays in place.
            My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

            Comment


            • #7
              so what does this all mean for the D4D in the 150? is it safe now it has these re designed seals? when did they start fitting these redesigned seals to them? Is my 2012 D4D going to blow up on me?
              2013 (12 build) GX Auto.......with safari snorkel, toyota bar, tow bar, roof racks, led spots with fancy newpro switchgear, uniden remote UHF and aerial, ARB bash plates, Roadsafe recovery points, digoptions radio, general grabber AT2s, cheap ebay roof rack that has stood up surprisingly well.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by retroenduro View Post
                so what does this all mean for the D4D in the 150? is it safe now it has these re designed seals? when did they start fitting these redesigned seals to them? Is my 2012 D4D going to blow up on me?
                I think they changed the seals in 2011
                Stephen Bloomer
                I did have - 2010 GXL D4D Auto, ARB bullbar, rails, sliders, winch, 40mm lift, Brown Davis bash plates and long range tank

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are many different stories floating around. I am under the impression that my 2010 has the new seals as I am lead to believe only the very early (i.e. 2009) 150 models may have had left over old seals but I'm not sure as the dealer refused to do the correct valve clearance check at 40k (30k on the clock for me). So I will have to wait till 80k (70k on the clock) to check when I get the valve clearance checked properly.

                  The Roo has a better feel for what's going on as he has pulled a part as far as I know.
                  2010 150 Glacier White GXL D4D Auto

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So does getting the tappets checked result in these seals being replaced? with an early 2010 model that I am planning to keep for a long time I am not sure what, if anything, I should be doing to protect myself.
                    Stephen Bloomer
                    I did have - 2010 GXL D4D Auto, ARB bullbar, rails, sliders, winch, 40mm lift, Brown Davis bash plates and long range tank

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fuel rail pressure means more fuel injected into the engine for a given injector opening duration. More fuel means higher combustion temperature and pressure in a diesel. This will definately have some effect on the pressure the seals can withstand.

                      Originally posted by mjrandom View Post
                      The seat that fails is between the combustion chamber and valve cover so fuel rail pressure has nothing to do with these failures. From my research you can see the seats distorting which allow combustion gases to escape into the rocker space. These hot gases carbonise the lubricating oil and lumps are washed back into the sump. These lumps are drawn against the oil pump inlet screen where they clog the screen and starve the engine of lubricating oil. This shows up with run bearings, scored bores etc.

                      I also struggle with the idea that an oil that meets Toyota requirements will cause ANY issue. Any oil will burn if hit with 1000C gas. Use the wrong oil and of course you can have problems.

                      I also have a problem with his comment about the Euro injectors. When this problem first started getting posts here (and I had a 120) I played on ToyoDIY and found that Europe already had the 316 injectors when we had earlier versions. Ultimately all 120s had these same injectors fitted. I have not done the same exercise with the 150.

                      I do agree about chips in general. While some have had good results from the Stein-lager (sic) chip I wouldn't be fitting any chips to a D4D.
                      2019 GXL, Bullbar, UHF, Redarc Brake Controller, Tow Bar, Secondary Fuel Filter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What's the bmep for the D4D?
                        My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Random post after a night on the gas. The creative part of the brain is supposedly stimulated by alcohol......
                          2019 GXL, Bullbar, UHF, Redarc Brake Controller, Tow Bar, Secondary Fuel Filter

                          Comment

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