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Serpentine Belt Misalignment - 1KD FTV Engine

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  • Serpentine Belt Misalignment - 1KD FTV Engine

    Hi,

    This is my first post in Pradopoint :-) I bought a 2004 Prado (Landcruiser LC4 in Scotland) last month and I'm catching up on some of the maintenance points. I used a guide from PP to change my timing belt and it was excellent, literally a 1hr job. I'm now having a little trouble with my v-belt / serpentine belt being 'eaten' by misaligned pullys (I suspect).

    I replaced the old belt, ensuring that all the ribs (7 ribs total) lined up well on the PH, CC, AL, CK & WP. I notice that the old belt was badly worn and was very thin, it had only 6 ribs and the other was missing. I'm guessing that this has been worn away just like the new belt I put on (its only taken 3days to wear away 1 rib)!

    When I look into the engine bay, it is clear that the serpentine belt comes of the altinator (AL) and feeds onto the first idler pully (IP) but doesn't align properly on it, it sits too far forwad. See point 1 in the picture below. The belt then feed incorrectly onto the CC and sits on the lip / edge of the pully. See position 2 in the picture below. The lip / edge of the CC pully effectively eats / wears the 7th rib off the belt leaving only 6ribs and a thin belt.

    Click image for larger version

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    I thought the problem might be caused by the first IP, at position 1 in the picture, having a worn bearing and is 'leaning' forward or possibly that the alternator is too far forward.

    Has anyone had experience of this? Can the alternator position be adjusted? Should I replace the IP?

    Any help would be great.

  • #2
    Gday Hamish

    Quote: it is clear that the serpentine belt comes of the alternator (AL) and feeds onto the first idler pully (IP) but doesn't align properly on it

    Answer: Does the Serpentine Belt align-up properly from the A/C to the pri-heat pump without any distortion in the belt? EG: (Lines up with no stressing on the belt).... I am guessing that the a/c is sitting too far forward (towards the radiator) and pulling the belt away from the idler pulley (No 1 idler).... If this is so then the belt will be tearing up the rib on the inside of the belt (Closest to engine side).

    If the alternator was to be sitting too far forward (Towards the radiator) this also would pull the belt away from the idler pulley and you would see distorting in the belt as the belt is leaving the tensioner pulley.

    I am only guessing here but you need to confirm that both the alternator or a/c has not been removed and replaced wrongly in the past.

    I do not think that the idler is the culprit!

    Cheers

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for you're help. Not sure if the alternator or ac has been replaced. I have included some more pictures to help explain better. Now that the belt has been reduced to a thinner belt, it actually makes it a little easier to explain and see in the pictures.

      Click image for larger version

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      THIS IS THE BELT ROUTING FROM THE AC TO THE PH . . .

      - The belt sits towards the back (towards the engine) of the AL pully
      - it then leaves the AL and goes to the front (towards bumper) of the IP
      - then leaves the IP and goes to the front of the AC
      - Leaves the AC and goes to the back of the PH

      I think you're suspicion of the AC could be correct, but in the other direction. This is the only pully with ribs where the belt sits in a different positions to the AC, PH, WP & CK. Do you think moving it forward (towards the radiator) would help. Can the AC be adjusted easily?

      As you can tell. I'm not so good at this!

      Comment


      • #4
        Gday Hamish

        Looking at the pics it looks like the problem is coming from the pri-heat (PH) pump!

        Is the pri-heat (PH) pump on rubber bushes or is there a spacer on the wrong side of the pump where the secure bolt fits?..... It looks like it needs to come forward (PH) as the engine turns clock-wise so the belt is being pulled towards the idler which is why it looks like the belt is sitting too-far back (Towards the engine) after the PH and hence the tearing/shredding of the belt.

        At this point i would rule out the alternator and a/c pump and focus the PH pump.

        Cheers

        PS. Looking more closely at the pics i am now thinking a/c again given the way the belt is wearing before the PH pump!

        Reason: If the a/c was sitting too far back it would shred on the left side of the PH pulley but the time the pulley rotates to the idler pulley it would have lined up again...... The more i look the more i am convinced
        Last edited by SWR; 29-03-2012, 06:57 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Looks like we are thinking similar thoughts now :-) Thanks for the help.

          My plan this weekend will be to move the AC forward 3-6mm and see what it looks like. If the belt sits on the same side of every pully, that is when I will replace the belt.

          Do you know if there is any adjustment in the ac pump? or will I be jerry rigging it with washers etc.
          Last edited by Hamish; 29-03-2012, 08:05 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yo Hamish

            Quote: Can the AC be adjusted easily?

            Answer: I don't think so!!... "maybe" someone has replaced the wrong a/c compressor or even the wrong a/c clutch pulley?

            When you take the serpentine belt off again remove the belt guard off the PH pump and eye-ball the pulleys to confirm that the a/c pulley sits back from the other ribbed pulleys.

            The a/c looks like it bolts directly to the engine mounting bracket so there looks like there is no room for moving the a/c forward

            Keep us up-dated and i will also look into more to see if i have over looked something.

            Cheers

            Comment


            • #7
              Hamish
              Use a straightedge on the edge of the pulleys in turn lining up with the adjacent pulleys, if you can, measure from the straightedge to the first v groove on each pulley. Use a vernier if you can get it in. I'd bet an incorrect alternator has been fitted at some stage and hasn't been aligned correctly.
              Let us know how you go.


              Ades
              Silver '04 KZJ120~Manual~GXL~Dobinson/Kings lift~Custom valved Ironmans~Detroit Locker~Endless Air~X9 Superwinch~Madman EMS1~TJM Dual Battery~Rhino Roof Tray~120W solar panel~Foxwing awning~Bushskinz UVP~Long Ranger water tank~Bushman fridge~Steinbauer P-Box~Beaudesert 2 3/4"~Airtec Snorkel~TJM Sliders~Prico Boost Gauge~BFG-KO2s~TPMS~GME TX3420~Front and Rear Cameras~Ultimate Camper hanging off the back!

              Comment


              • #8
                I have been doing a bit of research. The European model has a choice of either 12V 100Amp or 130A alternators.... We only get the 80amp in Australia Booooo!.... Not sure if the 100amp & 130amp are different body sizes.

                Factory stock 2 x batteries & a 130amp alternator would be a campers delight down here for sure!

                Cheers

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have the two battery model. Lets hope someone hasn't put the 100AMP alternator in! I'll give everyone an update after the weekend.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gday Hamish

                    I will start by saying that i used to be indecisive but im not so sure now!

                    I have been looking at the pics again and trying to be logic and imagining the belt being pushed towards the alternator and pulled off the Pri-heat pump.

                    From a more logic view and looking at the config of your engine by trying to eliminate the more logic.

                    #1 you can not adjust or move the A/C due to it being bolted directly to the engine mount bracket via 4 x bolts. (Eliminated providing it is original)

                    #2 You can not adjust or move the Pri-heat pump as it also is bolted directly to the engine bracket via 4 x bolts. (Eliminated)

                    #3 The water pump & crank pulley can be ruled out as they can't go anywhere. (Eliminated)

                    #3 The idler pulleys can not influence the belt as they are smooth and run on the back of the belt. (Eliminated)

                    Given all of the above into the equation and accepting that there are 2 x types of alternators (100amp and 130amp) for your car and that the belt tensioner is very close to the crank pulley and then after coming off the the alternator onto the 1st idler which is also close to the tensioner pulley...... "If" the alternator was to be too far forward it would be more possible for the belt to move forward (Towards the radiator) push the belt into the outer front of the a/c pulley and cause it to shred.... Once the belt leaves the a/c and goes onto the large pri-heat pump pulley it would then have time to align back up again before going onto the 2nd idler, By which time it would have alined-up for the water pump then back onto the crank. (Seems more plausible).

                    It all gets back to checking which pulley is out of alignment but from a logic as described above it tends to point more to that pesky alternator now that i have given it more thought.

                    The odds of the a/c being set back (Apart from a generic a/c being fitted) are quite slim chances. (More bad luck than odds).

                    The chances of a wrong alternator being fitted or positioned would have much higher chances!

                    Looking forward to the facts as this has now made me curious as all hell!

                    Cheers

                    Comment

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