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  • 120 D4D injector seal replacement

    I posted earlier about smoke on start-up on my November 2006 Grande (130,000 Km).
    http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado/page111

    For some reason the problem seemed to go for a couple of weeks about 1500 Km after an injector flush, but then returned and last week I went to yet another diesel expert, who convinced me that it was the injector seal problem. Unfortunately he was about to go off to Thailand for 2 weeks, so I asked if it was reasonable to have a go at fixing it myself, so he sold me the new seals, O rings and fancy double aluminium seals for the fuel return line.

    Had to get one tool I didn't have, that was a 17mm offset or "crow's foot" open-end spanner for the fuel lines. Eventually bought a set for $55. Probably never use them again (I hope).

    No 1 injector was firmly stuck, but the others could be removed readily enough by hand once the clamps were undone. The judicious use of a drift and rubber mallet used to rotate No 1 enabled its release. I have attached pictures of the injector and a close-up of the O-ring, fully explaining the oil leak into the cylinders. There was no visible sludge in the valve box, so I removed as much of the carbon as I could, and proceeded to change oil and filter. Hopefully will not give lubrication problems.

    TIP: On reassembly, do the fuel return pipe unions up loosely to the injectors before tightening down the clamps. Alignment is critical. It is not essential to undo the union attaching the pipe to the head.

    The car has its original battery, which didn't like priming the system on reassembly, not helped by the fact that I had not watched as I did up No 2 injector pipe/common-rail junction, which leaked profusely.
    TIP: using the crow's foot spanner, watch that it doesn't hit anything and block reaching full torque on the bolt.

    After fixing that the engine started readily enough, though priming takes a considerable amount of running, probably close to 60 seconds, achieved after an overnight charge of the battery.

    For some reason the engine warning light remained on after starting, as did the VSC/TRC and VSC OFF lights. I don't have access to a scantool, but after about an hour I went back, tried starting again and the lights had gone out, and have not recurred (while running, of course).

    Having convinced myself I was going to have to replace the injectors at a cost of thousands, I am pleased that it appears to be fixed for less than $200 including the tools and oil change.

    I hope my experience may help others with the problem.

    Russell
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Not a pretty sight.
    My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

    Comment


    • #3
      120 D4D injector seal replacement

      Gday russellb

      That has to be some very valuable information that you shared on the injector seat washers. I will not be forgetting those symptoms for future knowledge reference. (Hopefully not for my car!).

      In one hand i was lucky that my injector seating washers was in good condition!.... Not so lucky that the injectors where out of range!...... Grrrrr!

      May i also add a tip on the injector installation (mainly for the home-mechanics who are not fully in the know!) Before you remove the original injectors i found it near fool proof to eye-balling the injector from the supply line side to the return (On the injector its self across the top) Then marking a line on the cam-shaft with a texter. This will practically guarantee that you will have the injectors lined up perfect on installation for when you put the cam-cover back on. (No4 injector was a bit awkward to eye-ball).

      Putting a smidgen knob of grease on the new alloy seating washer will stop the washer from dropping off whilst installing the injector.

      Make sure that the bolt holes for the injector clamp are blown out free from oil presence with an air-gun (Can buy a air pressure can if no air compressor or Tyre-pump). If oil is present it may cause hydraulic of the bolt hole and "A": punch a hole in the cast or "B": false torque reading. Both of which are not good as "A" past a PP found out when his car was fixed (Injector broke free and punched hole in the cam-cover). (These particular bolts do not stretch/cross-thread/go brittle when fitted correctly).

      You also do not need to remove the red dust caps from the injectors when re-fitting the cam-cover (Providing that injectors are lined up) as you can still prize the dust caps off as i did once the cam cover is fitted (Helps keep injectors static clean from contaminants!

      It is also critical to blow "ALL" injector pipes out before re-fitting as we are talking about an injector that is very sensitive to foreign particles the size of microns. (There are 1,000 microns in one millimeter).

      I also highly recommend using a crows-foot spanner (17mm - 3/8 drive) as appose to a pipe spanner as this is much stronger than a pipe spanner when un-doing the pipe from the injector.

      Cheers

      Comment


      • #4
        Advise D4d injector seal replacement

        Hello Russell,

        Many thanks for your posting.

        I drive a 2001 Toyota Avensis 2.0D4d (CDT220), 350.000 km. I come from the Netherlands. Since a few months I have the following engine problems; reduced torque and power, higher fuel consumption (~20%) and lots of smoke when starting. This problem began suddenly, just a bit and became worse over time.

        Recently I removed the oil filler cab when the engine was running, lot’s of smoke came out. This smoke would normally (during driving) flow back into the air inlet via de crankcase ventilation. I decided to measure the flow when running idle (900 rpm). To my surprise it was over 60! litre/minute (measured using a yellow balloon ). This measurement brought me to your posting. I’m pretty sure my problem is also a leaking injector seat.

        In the next weeks I planned to replace the injector seats myself like you did. I have a few questions. I hope you could give me some additional advise.

        Your injector looks dirty. I can imagine the injector hole was dirty as well. How did you clean this hole and particular the seat surface without making scratches and other damage?

        I imagine gasses passing the leaking seat are under high pressure, hot and chemically aggressive; did you notice any erosion on the aluminium cylinder head?

        How did you clean the injection nozzle without getting dirt in the tiny holes?

        How did the mechanic come to the conclusion that a seat was leaking. Did you notice the smoke leak like I described?

        Did you get significant power increase after the job was done? And is the engine still ok now after some time?

        I hope you can make time to answer.

        Best regards,

        Michiel

        PS Also thanks for the additional comments from skywalkerrun 
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Michiel

          Thanks for the comments, I don't know if there is any material difference in your 2.0 litre engine and my 3.0 litre. Have you noticed that the oil smoke on starting seems to be worse if the car is parked nose down? The diesel mechanic was rather alarmed when he parked my car with the rear wheels on a ramp for about an hour, then almost got a hydraulic lock on starting it. Probably lucky it didn't hole No 1 piston. May have been a problem with mine because of No 1 seal being the worst, and hence the higher gravitational oil pressure when standing.

          I cleaned out basically with a clean cotton cloth. Most of the carbon came out as a plug attached to the injector as you can see. I can't remember now if I plugged the No 1 injector hole while I scraped the gunk out, but that would have been my normal precaution. Can't say that there was any visible erosion of the head, and it certainly seems to have cured the problem. Injector was likewise cleaned up by wiping off only. I suspect that the injector holes are so small that dirt would not go in retrograde without high pressure, and any that did would be blown out again. I wasn't aware of Skywalkerrun's suggestion of blowing out the injector pipes with air, but that seems eminently reasonable.

          We have done about 20,000 Km since, including nearly 10,000 Km caravan towing and things seem to be stable as far as I can see. I looked at the old seals and couldn't see any gross damage there, either, so it doesn't seem to need a very large hole to develop the symptoms. Not surprising when you think of the pressures involved, though the oil leakage pressure would be only the hydrostatic load of the oil in the cam cover.

          I didn't look for gas leakage via the oil filler as you did, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was considerable. Fuel consumption seems to be about what I experienced soon after I bought the car, on the trip computer showing a bit less than 10 litres/100 Km on general running (largely motorway) and about 13.5 l/100 Km towing.

          I hadn't noticed any great loss of performance, though I think the fuel consumption may have improved. A lot of the running immediately before the repair was on suburban roads, with consumption about 12 l/100 Km.

          I would suggest getting your injector performance measured by a diesel service before you pull everything out, as the process of replacing injectors is almost identical, and just replacing the seals isn't a trivial job. I think the only other aspect that I have seen in my reading is that the injector pipes are supposed to be replaced if the injectors are changed, and of course the electronic pump settings will have to be reprogrammed if the injectors are replaced.

          Hope this is helpful.

          Russell

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Russell,

            Thanks a lot for your reply and the very valuable information.

            About nose down, I did not notice any difference in the position of the car related to the smoke. I must say I never park nose up or down as most of the area is flat here .

            Last week I ordered the seats, O-rings, backup rings and the 5 gaskets for the nozzle leakage pipe. After I got the parts I had a closer look in the manual and found that Toyota uses a smart trick to test for leakage on the 5 connections of the nozzle leakage pipe. In the manual is said after closing the 5 connections to open overpressure check valve of the nozzle leakage pipe,
            Take out the spring and ball and close again. Then put air pressure on the nozzle leakage pipe via the check valve and test with water and soap if the 5 connections are leak tight.
            After testing I should mount a new check valve (20 Euro) and close the cam cover and then connect the pressure pipes. The theory is that after mounting the cam cover these 5 connections cannot be seen anymore. I have no honestly no idea if this is an overdone official Toyota measure necessity to do; however, I bought the new check valve and will see how it works out.

            You suggested to measure injector performance. I will check some diesel specialists in the area. Via the OBD there is quite some analysis possible.

            I did some more searching on the web and noticed my seats were changed from 11176-27010 (copper) to 11176-27011 (aluminium). Most probably copper wasn’t the best choice between the aluminium head and the steel injector.

            Also found an interesting website for Toyota part numbers including dealer price. The land cruiser Prado was also listed. www.toyodiy.com
            It could be interesting to check for the prices and part numbers. At least it helped me a lot.

            In a few weeks I plan to do the repair and write about the results. I hope to get my engine power back. I will also make pictures and show the results. I expect a lot of mess under the cam cover around the injectors.

            Best regards,

            Michiel

            PS: Interesting links for anyone interested in several Toyota engines:
            http://avensis.org.ru/Manual/Toyota%...pair%20Manual/

            Comment


            • #7
              OH YEH , you'll find plenty of crap up higher in the motor like mine.... 100,000 k's and a couple of blown copper seals and what a mess.
              Were told by Toyota that any vehicle with this motor in Europe HAS been re-called and in NZ these seals get replaced every 45,000 k's.

              When I demanded to know why Toyota won't re-call them here they said "WE DON'T SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM HAPPENING HERE " What a load of bull...t !!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Russell and Michael, if you haven't done so, have read through this thread also http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...th-the-1KD-FTV
                Riv39
                Advanced Member
                Last edited by Riv39; 07-11-2012, 11:51 AM.
                2010 150 Glacier White GXL D4D Auto

                Comment


                • #9
                  Spoke to my "trusted" Toyota mechanic about the whole injector issue and he suggested that when I do the valve clearance shims, to replace injector seals as they are only few $ as well as the rocket cover gasket. This would be in line with what other countries are doing by the sounds of it. Does this sound ok?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello Russell and others,

                    Problem with leaking seats is solved. A few weeks ago I did the repair. Changed the leaking copper seats with aluminium ones, including O-ring and teflon backup seals (‘rockets’).

                    When I opened the head cam I found a big mess. Lots of thick oil sludge, burned oil particles (pic 2). It took me about half a day to remove all four injectors. They were completely stuck due to the burned oil, especially injector 2.

                    I used a big screwdriver and a hammer as wedges and slowly managed to break the injectors out. Most of the carbon came with the injectors. After I got them out I found injector 1,3 and 4 having the nozzle full with carbon and oil, I suppose they were all leaking. The nozzle of injector 2 was dry. The O-rings and Teflon seals were damaged a lot, especially nr. 1 and 4 (pic 5,6).

                    Also the copper seats were firmly stuck. At first I used a long steel hook with grip that I bought in the car parts shop. Bad luck, when trying to get the seat out, the hardened steel tip broke and fell through the injector hole in the cylinder. Tried to get it out with a magnet but that did not work. Then took an electricity cable and removed the copper inner wire. Mounted it on the vacuum cleaner and pushed the cable through the hole in the cylinder. Finally I got the bastard out (pic 3).
                    Finally got the seats out by screwing a 12 mm steel drill into them and hit them out with a hammer. The seats look just a bit burned (pic 4).

                    I cleaned the injectors using lots of solvent, scotch brite and a brush with brass wire. They were very dirty, most probably because oil leaking down meets with hot exhaust gass and forms coal. Looking at the enlarged pictures I see lots of scratches I made with the brush and scotch brite (pic 7,8). Maybe next time it would be better to use something gentler. It could be that I made tiny deformations at the edge of the hole (you can see 2 of the holes on the picture) changing the spray pattern of the diesel.

                    I found there are oil channels that enter the injector hole just a bit above the location of the O-ring. These oil channels are most probably to cool the injectors (I guess). They were completely blocked with burned oil. I cleaned them with the hook (pic 9).

                    After removing all the sludge from the camshafts I measured valve clearance. Inlet was all nominal. Outlet was just 0.01 mm within specification. Not bad for 350k. (never checked or adjusted before) I decided to let it like this.

                    I used the grease to stick the seat to the injector (thanks Skywalker) and placed the injectors. I made a note of the serial numbers. I noticed the new aluminium seats were 0,25 mm thicker than the used copper ones. Next I placed the injectors gently at their original location using a bit of oil. Took the oil from the holes using a cotton swab to avoid hydraulic lock, placed back the clamps and the long bolts without torque them.

                    I mounted the return rail with the old already used seals to eyeball the injectors. Then I torqued the injectors. Then removed the return rail again and placed NEW seals and replaced the return rail. I think this method is slightly different from what you did Russell. I felt a bit more comfortable about this; used seats should be cleaned to avoid contamination.

                    Before closing the cam cover I did a leak test for the return rail. I bought a new check valve. The old one is wasted for the leak test. From the check valve the spring and ball should be taken out (pic 10). Then the valve should be placed and connected to a pump. I placed a car tire pressure valve in the rubber hose and pressed 100 kPa over pressure in the rail and maintained for 10 minutes and checked for leaks using soap water and a brush (pic 11). This method is as prescribed in the T22 Toyota manual.

                    I did not find leaks and mounted the new check valve. The opened check valve should never be replaced.

                    I placed back all the parts. To avoid long starting and potentially running the injectors dry, I disconnected the injectors and started for 10-15 seconds. Then I connected the injectors and started again. The car started immediately and ran normally on idle. Don’t know if this is the right procedure.

                    I did about 5k since the repair without any problems. Fuel consumption is now about 15% lower, the car has much more power, noise went down and also no smoke when starting anymore.

                    Michael


                    Click image for larger version

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                    michael1978
                    Lurker
                    Last edited by michael1978; 05-12-2012, 07:58 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      PS, could not upload all the pics at once.

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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        PS, could not upload all the pics at once.

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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gday michael1978

                          Awesome wright-up with great detail!.. Great pics also!

                          The only thing i found to be missing in your wright-up which would be of critical importance is that you didn't mention that you checked your oil pick-up in the sump!

                          I would be almost certain by looking at your injectors that the oil pick-up oil strainer will not be looking too healthy!

                          Read this link below.
                          http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post379910

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My workmate here in Kalgoorlie had heard of my dramas and I told him to watch for any smoke. His car has been blowing some white smoke so he got his wife to take it to the local dealer. They sent her away with a "nothing wrong" report. Smoke still blowing out the back. My mate took it back and told them what I had told him about the seal issue and guess what - the oil pickup screen was found to be completely covered in gunk.

                            They continue to bury their heads until somebody shoves the proof under their noses, bastards.
                            Dave
                            Views expressed are mine alone and are not intended to compromise the integrity of my employer nor offend those who may read such views.
                            Bugger Bali, get out and see Australia before we sell it all to China.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here's the pickup screen.
                              Attached Files
                              Dave
                              Views expressed are mine alone and are not intended to compromise the integrity of my employer nor offend those who may read such views.
                              Bugger Bali, get out and see Australia before we sell it all to China.

                              Comment

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