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1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

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  • 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

    Have decided to chip my 1KZ auto and have narrowed it down to a Roo chip or a DP Chip. However the Roo chip wires in before the ECU and the DP chip after the ECU. They both claim their way is the safest. Don't see how they can both be correct. Can anyone with some proper technical knowledge help me out here, as I am out of my depth and don't want to part with my hard earned until I understand more
    White 2012 GXL 150 TD Auto. Work in progress. Aiming to spend less than when I kitted out the 120!

  • #2
    Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

    I've been in contact with Roo Chips and had a lot of feed back. I've aslo looked at the DP Chip but I'm not sure if this applies to the 1KZ of D4D but the DP chip dosn't work when Curise Control is enabled I believe. Another option is the Chip It chip but it hasn't been released for the 1KZ but apparently will be soon.
    [COLOR=#000080]Nick[/COLOR]
    [URL="http://pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5308&sid=bcbebadd30673f1ac72047e6e8a93d79"]2006 TD GXL Evolution & Trips[/URL]
    [URL=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/Schaffer/prado][IMG]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/45547.png[/IMG][/URL]
    [img]http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/Schaffer71/Avatar/CooperCreek.jpg[/img] [img]http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/Schaffer71/Avatar/BendlebyRanges.jpg[/img]

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    • #3
      Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

      I have the DP Chip, and yes it's wired into the loom downstream after the ECU. Supposedly this is safer because it does not mask any possible error codes that can be triggered by the system. So if it does trigger a check engine light and brings the electrical system into limp mode, turning the engine off, taking it out or dialling it down, and restarting refreshes the system and takes it out of the limp mode.

      Other chips, not necessarily the Roo Chip, are wired before the ECU, and some of them can mask error codes such that you think everything's fine but them something blows, and you'll find out only when you analyze all the triggered error codes.

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      • #4
        Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

        Thanks, but this is precisely my problem. DP say that after the ECU is safer and Roo say that before is safer. When I asked Roo this morning they didn't really give me a clear answer. However I would not be completely happy with a chip that didn't work when cruise control was activated. IMm29, is that your experience with your DP chip?
        White 2012 GXL 150 TD Auto. Work in progress. Aiming to spend less than when I kitted out the 120!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

          The before ECU modifies the input signals to the ECU so that the ECU can only check what its outputing is within the safe limits designed into the ECU for that engine. This method fools the ECU to think it needs to add more fuel than normal....

          The after ECU modifies the output signals of the ECU so the ECU can only check if the inputs are within the designed safe limits for that engine. This method adds injector timing length to effectively add more fuel than normal...

          Each method hides/modifies information to or from the ECU....

          As you have stated the only one that works with the cruise is the before ECU, since the ECU controls the throttle electronically when the cruise is active. This throttle signal is used internally in the ECU to determine the injector opening & duration timings. The after chip can't work out the throttle position from the output information to the injectors so it can only work when in a mode that it can see the throttle position & that is only when the driver has his foot on the throttle itself - a wire directly hooked to the throttle position sensor is used to determine the requested load by the driver.

          (Addendum 06/10/2010 - DPChip have stated in a response to a member of the 4wdaction thread, that the wire on the throttle is a safety feature so that the chip is effectively off when the throttle is at 0%. Also it is claimed that the requested load can be determined by the pulses that the chip can see from the ECU. If the purpose of the wire is as stated then the cruise control would no benefit from the chip since it would always read the throttle at 0%, so either it doesn't work during cruise OR the throttle wire is more than a safety feature.)

          With reference to the 1kz, usually the before ECU is a module in behind your glovebox. It can be unplugged & the original wiring plugged back in. The post ECU requires cutting into the wiring loom because the 1kz doesn't have a plug that other engines with post ECU chips can use.

          I had done some serious research into the DP chip a little while ago & I was convinced it was reasonable safe. They have their system on a large number of vehicles of many different engines & they aren't quoted mega power gains that are going to break something....

          The only before ECU module I knew of was the Ditronic which I understand is no longer made...again I had no issues with its claimed operational specifications.

          My only suggestion is to get an engine temperature monitor at least & perhaps an exhaust temperature monitor if your towing. The easiest way to do an engine is to let it get too hot - the chip may make that easier than if it was unchipped.

          Cheers
          Richard
          2011 GXL TD Auto Prado Silver

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

            Hi there, I had a DPchip in my 2005 Rodeo CR diesel ute and it certainly DID work even when on cruise control. It made being on cruise control a whole lot better actually, with the extra torque and power it would cruise up hills without kicking back a gear and reving harder.

            Without the chip in and driving with the cruise control on, there are some hills that I had to accelerate a bit just before the hill so that it didn't kick back a gear. With the DPchip in, I could leave it on cruise control and not touch the accelerator and the ute would sail up the hills happily in top gear without kicking back and making a while lot of extra noise.

            I have just ordered a DPchip for my Prado, hopefully it will be in under the bonnet by this time next week.....
            Not of this Earth
            Somewhere in my 2010 200 Series Landcruiser Sahara
            slowly being improved for the real world
            2013 Jayco 21.65-4 Sterling Outback with twin slideouts and simplicity suspension

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            • #7
              Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

              Thanks for all your help folks. Did a bit of searching on PP and was referred to the LCOOL site where they talk about before and after the ECU. Their opinion is before is better. From reading a large number of posts on PP, looks like nearly everyone is happy with their chips. Also looks like a good idea to get an EGT gauge. If I go that path, at least a larger dump pipe would seem to be the go with provision for the EGT sensor. As with any mods, one thing leads to another!
              Cheers....Wayne
              White 2012 GXL 150 TD Auto. Work in progress. Aiming to spend less than when I kitted out the 120!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                Wayne, I have just reread the following thread, you may find informative, confusing OR both!

                http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewt ... ning+chips

                There's also some specific posts on chipping the 1kzte there as well on that site, just use the search...

                PS I assume you have searched Pradopoint first!

                Happy reading! :shock:

                Cheers
                Richard
                2011 GXL TD Auto Prado Silver

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                  Originally posted by StormyKnight
                  As you have stated the only one that works with the cruise is the before ECU

                  The post ECU requires cutting into the wiring loom because the 1kz doesn't have a plug that other engines with post ECU chips can use.
                  Cheers
                  this is complete rubbish!!

                  i have a 1kz and have the steinbauer chip, which is post ECU.
                  cruise control works just fine, just like all other functions.
                  and the rubbish about cutting the loom .....
                  mine uses plugs to intercept ECU signals and then alters and sents out adjusted signals to the injection pump.
                  the original toyota plug is disconnected off pump and onto the loom for the chip.
                  then on the chips loom a plug is plugged back onto the injection pump.
                  there is an additional wire that needs to be run off the back of the accelerator to give the chip the throttle position.
                  thats it.
                  how can putting a chip on, cancel out your cruise control and still drive normally or better.
                  1KZ use fly by wire, so be it your accelator or cruise, the ECU is still getting a signal, unless wired wrong.
                  who would spend good $$$ to increase engine performance to lose something like cruise. wow i'll buy that NOT.
                  [url=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/damonat/prado][img]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/50578.png[/img][/url]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                    Originally posted by hulbyw
                    Thanks, but this is precisely my problem. DP say that after the ECU is safer and Roo say that before is safer. When I asked Roo this morning they didn't really give me a clear answer. However I would not be completely happy with a chip that didn't work when cruise control was activated. IMm29, is that your experience with your DP chip?
                    My unit doesn't have the cruise control, so I can't say first hand.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                      Damonat, can you confirm you can unplug your post ECU chip without cutting wires (other than the specified throttle position)? I believe that the DPChip is different since it requires a fair amount of time to fit!

                      The DPChip DP34 is installed in a parallel situation downstream of the vehicles ECU. It is because of this style of connection that the DP34 series requires hard wiring in. This is done by a wire clip system down near the injection pump and a few other wires for battery + and - .

                      Re the cruise, it doesn't stop the cruise from working, it just that the chip cannot use the throttle position sensor since you don't use the throttle during cruise operation.

                      I have made a correction to my original post, DPChip claim that the throttle position wire is a safety feature. It tells the chip that at 0% throttle that the chip should be off. This is a quote from themselves posted in the 4wdaction thread.

                      This also means that the chip will be effectively off during cruise since the throttle peddle will be at 0%.

                      Honestly the question should be put to DPChip for a resolution &/or someone with the actual chip could advise....

                      Cheers
                      Richard
                      2011 GXL TD Auto Prado Silver

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                        As previously posted I can tell you that the DPchip still works with the cruise control active!!!

                        The difference in power if the DPchip was switched off everytime you turned the cruise control on would be noticable if it wasn't running. I would see the car kicking back a gear or 2 on hills instead of powering up in top gear.

                        I also rang DPchip today just to confirm this and the person I spoke to said that it makes no sense for the DPchip to be turned off if you are using the cruise control. By throttle position I don't think it means the actual position of the pedal but more the position or demand on the throttle be it by the cruise control or the accelerator pedal.
                        Not of this Earth
                        Somewhere in my 2010 200 Series Landcruiser Sahara
                        slowly being improved for the real world
                        2013 Jayco 21.65-4 Sterling Outback with twin slideouts and simplicity suspension

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                          Originally posted by Dustybum
                          As previously posted I can tell you that the DPchip still works with the cruise control active!!!

                          The difference in power if the DPchip was switched off everytime you turned the cruise control on would be noticable if it wasn't running. I would see the car kicking back a gear or 2 on hills instead of powering up in top gear.

                          I also rang DPchip today just to confirm this and the person I spoke to said that it makes no sense for the DPchip to be turned off if you are using the cruise control. By throttle position I don't think it means the actual position of the pedal but more the position or demand on the throttle be it by the cruise control or the accelerator pedal.
                          I agree it would be noticeable, but why the wire on the throttle then? The throttle peddle can be thrown out the window, the cruise will still work since the requested load (throttle position) is generated inside the ECU when cruise is enabled. The 1KZTE is a fly-by wire throttle - there is no throttle cable....just an electrical wire.

                          So the question to them is what is the point of the throttle wire when cruise is active?
                          Richard
                          2011 GXL TD Auto Prado Silver

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                            Originally posted by StormyKnight
                            Damonat, can you confirm you can unplug your post ECU chip without cutting wires (other than the specified throttle position)? I believe that the DPChip is different since it requires a fair amount of time to fit!

                            Cheers
                            i can and i have.
                            Samo is currently driving around with my chip fitted.
                            took us about 30-40min at the GTG with limited tools.
                            yes it just unplugs, by removing -/+ wires and throttle reference wire.
                            when Samo gives it back we will just un plug from his and re-fit.
                            no cutting looms.
                            [url=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/damonat/prado][img]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/50578.png[/img][/url]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 1KZ Chip. Best before or after ECU?

                              Hi,
                              I'm chasing a copy of fitting instructions for the DP34, DP chip for the
                              1KZ prado. I've purchased one second hand and can not get any assistance
                              from DP Chip without returning the product to DP Chip at a cost of $170 for
                              an unnecessary recalibration. Considering the cost of the original
                              purchase, I can't see the justification for them just to "double dip". Can
                              anyone possibly help out with a photocopy and email to "[email protected]"
                              any assistance would be greatly appreciated
                              thanks

                              Tony

                              Comment

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