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  • D4D Death - Engine bottom end failure

    Some will know of my posts on my trip to the Simpson Desert.. or more correctly the one way trip to just the other side of Birdsville!

    viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7713


    Thanks for all the good wishes chaps... latest update ....

    Vehicle has had a major engine failure.. looks as if it has spun a bearing in the bottom end...and the associated destruction of the engine/turbo etc etc. So far we have examined the oil when we got it back off the truck from Birdsville... and its chokka with metal. Up for a complete rebuild or new motor.

    I realise i have to be careful what i say here in relation to any compensation from Toyota, however facts are as follows. Vehicle is 3 months out of time warranty, but 3000 inside distance warranty (97000km). So I today visited the dealer to explain my case. I explained the whole situation and of course all they really wanted to know was answers to the petty questions like.. what sort of oil did you use? did you get it serviced by apprentices at a dealer for every service? Did you buy it from us? etc etc etc ... when in fact none of these things really matter.

    What really matters is Toyotas attitude to their product. Frankly, i bought a Toyota Product due to its reliability. I intended to keep this car for 200K or maybe more. I bought a new Corolla for my wife for the same reason. My service guy is even more pedantic than the dealer apprentices, and if those issues were a contributing factor, then hundreds of thousands of D4D engines serviced by high grade independant mechanics are about to explode at 97000Km. Should a D4D engine expire at 97000km of mainly commuter use? I mean these things work all day on mine sites and in industrial environments, and they dont explode. There is no outside influence that causes a bottom end failure, its usually fatigue from maybe 200-300,000km of use... Nobody has ever heard of a D4D failing (big help to me of course!) , so that simply means... bad luck mate?

    Anyway, at the moment the car is en route to the dealer. Their indication on the face of it is a new engine.. $15000 PLUS A BIT OF LABOUR..( ! ) but they say they will assess it and see if they can involve Toyota Head Office.

    Frankly, I am not seeking to BLAME anyone, but i am seeking to understand how Toyota feels about their product, and whether they may at least make some attempt to reconcile what is essentially an absolute nightmare.

    I am quietly expecting to be treated like a piece of trash, and given a mealy mouthed excuse like my "outsider "mechanic must have poured the oil in the filler neck at an incorrect angle, and collected the oil from the sump in a red dish rather than a blue one...which caused the engine to run for 1700km then spit a bearing...or something along those lines. I can only wish that Toyota will indeed have enough interest to see my plight, and the dealer will assist in being my mouthpiece to Toyota, to seek some sort of compromised resolution, but I kinda feel like i will be whistling dixie!

    Have faith i hear you say???

    Time will tell, and updates as i get them.
    2010 D4D GXL auto.: 275/65/17 BFG's /ARB Colour Coded Deluxe Bar / IPF fogs / IPF XD Driving lights / OME Suspension / ARB Towbar / Electric Brake Controller/ Safari Snorkel / "Clark Rubber" Mudflap extensions / GME UHF with town and country antennas / RMW Seat covers & Dash Mat / Full window tint/ ARB~Outback Modular Drawers and Fridge Slider/Cargo Barrier/ ARB Dual Battery Installation with rear outlets/HD Rhino Roof Racks..

  • #2
    Re: D4D Death

    Originally posted by masso
    ....

    Vehicle has had a major engine failure.. looks as if it has spun a bearing in the bottom end...

    ...all they really wanted to know was answers to the petty questions like.. what sort of oil did you use? did you get it serviced by apprentices at a dealer for every service? Did you buy it from us? etc etc etc ... when in fact none of these things really matter...
    Well I would say the petty question "what sort of oil did you use" is certainly a question that does matter. I hope you have invoices to show the correct grade of oil has been used. Bearing failures, if not caused by foreign object contamination in the oil, are basically caused by a breakdown of the lubricant film between surfaces. If you did have the recommended oil did you overheat the oil? I didn't have a D4D so don't know if it has an engine oil cooler but if it does is the cooler blocked with mud or shrouded by anything you have fitted to the vehicle?

    It might be worthwhile taking an oil sample and getting your oil analysis done. If only for your own independant verification of what Toyota might say. I realise the sample is full of metal but they can maybe still tell you what the viscosity of the oil is or if it has been cooked.
    Previous Prado owner

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: D4D Death

      Good luck masso. I think you are right to not expect the best, this way anything they offer will be a bonus

      If it were me staring down the barrel of a $15k repair bill, I'd be looking at low mileage motors from the wreckers and/or second hand short motors from Japan.

      Michael
      2008 D4D M6 GXL [MT ATZ-P3][Whitey's Ironman 45710FE/45682FE+KTFR101H/Dob487][extended Roadsafe links][Polyairs][DBA T3/T2][amts diffdrop & recovery points][Tin175's stone guards][Bushskins BashPlate][ARB Sahara][IPF 900s][Snorkel][WindCheetah][MaxTrax][IC-440][Parrot Asteroid][ARB Fridge][Lifestyle 2nd Row Fridge Mount][ARB Compressor][Thumper][SandGrabbers][Cargo Barrier][Tigerz Awning][MCC Rear Bar]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: D4D Death

        Originally posted by quadcam
        Originally posted by masso
        ....

        Vehicle has had a major engine failure.. looks as if it has spun a bearing in the bottom end...

        ...all they really wanted to know was answers to the petty questions like.. what sort of oil did you use? did you get it serviced by apprentices at a dealer for every service? Did you buy it from us? etc etc etc ... when in fact none of these things really matter...
        Well I would say the petty question "what sort of oil did you use" is certainly a question that does matter. I hope you have invoices to show the correct grade of oil has been used. Bearing failures, if not caused by foreign object contamination in the oil, are basically caused by a breakdown of the lubricant film between surfaces. If you did have the recommended oil did you overheat the oil? I didn't have a D4D so don't know if it has an engine oil cooler but if it does is the cooler blocked with mud or shrouded by anything you have fitted to the vehicle?

        It might be worthwhile taking an oil sample and getting your oil analysis done. If only for your own independant verification of what Toyota might say. I realise the sample is full of metal but they can maybe still tell you what the viscosity of the oil is or if it has been cooked.

        Further to above, indeed the correct oil grade was always used. Not to trivialise the question, as i mentioned, my mechanic is extremely pedantic about these things. In fact the grades used were always exceeding the manufacturers requirements. No doubt the oil will be analysed as part of the process. There also seems to be no issue with overheating the oil, i dont believe there is an oil cooler and if there was and it was blocked by mud... then am i the only person to get a D4D engine dirty?
        2010 D4D GXL auto.: 275/65/17 BFG's /ARB Colour Coded Deluxe Bar / IPF fogs / IPF XD Driving lights / OME Suspension / ARB Towbar / Electric Brake Controller/ Safari Snorkel / "Clark Rubber" Mudflap extensions / GME UHF with town and country antennas / RMW Seat covers & Dash Mat / Full window tint/ ARB~Outback Modular Drawers and Fridge Slider/Cargo Barrier/ ARB Dual Battery Installation with rear outlets/HD Rhino Roof Racks..

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: D4D Death

          Good Luck Buddy!!!!!! you will need it.
          [b]Rob[/b]

          [b]2016 Toyota Hilux SR5 D4D Auto Company Cruiser... [/b].
          [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?23866-Hutch-s-2012-150-GXL-V6-petrol-Auto]Hutch's 2012 Build up[/url]
          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: D4D Death

            Hey Masso,

            If attitude counts for anything, then your well on the way to the best possible outcome. As you say... keep the faith.

            I hope your mech didn't use a red tray... they're for Corollas only .

            All the best mate,
            LFaR.
            [size=1][color=#770000]29Feb12:[/color][color=#777700]12GXLTD Auto, ARB Deluxe Winch bar, WARN 9.5xp Winch, IPF 900XS, Tow, Safari snorkel, Front + Rear Recovery points, ARB OME NC Sports, ATZ-4Rib[/color][color=grey], Silver[/color]. [color=orange][b]MaxTrax[/b][/color], [color=maroon]ScanGuage II[/color], [color=blue]ARB CKMA12[/color], [color=deeppink]UHF: GME TX3440 AE4018K1 UNH047SX[/color], [color=darkgreen]Bushranger Air Jack[/color], [color=green]Staun + ARB Deflators[/color], [color=brown]WindCheetah Roof Rack[/color], [color=green]Foxwing[/color], [color=red]Super Charge MRV70, Redarc BCDC1220[/color], [color=darkblue]ARB 60L fridge[/color], [color=blue]MSA Fridge Dropdown slide[/color], [color=darkyellow]DRIFTA Drawers[/color], [color=gold]TJM Bash Plates[/color], [color=brown]TG150[/color].[/size]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: D4D Death

              good luck masso hope mr toyota gives you the answer you r hoping if not give them the, OH WHAT A FEELING treatment. cheers samo
              had an 03 gx 120 with some gear now got a 2013 bt 50 GT auto some ARB gear.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: D4D Death

                I am still fighting with Mazda over a hundred dollar part which i refuse to pay for out of principle, they say their car is not defective and i disagree!! rang the dealer princple today and i am awaiting his reply.
                [b]Rob[/b]

                [b]2016 Toyota Hilux SR5 D4D Auto Company Cruiser... [/b].
                [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?23866-Hutch-s-2012-150-GXL-V6-petrol-Auto]Hutch's 2012 Build up[/url]
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: D4D Death

                  :shock: Masso, sincerely hope you get it sorted at no cost to you.
                  Black 2003, TD, GXL Prado

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: D4D Death

                    Masso I cannot believe what I have read. Like you I buy Toyota's because they don't break. I bit the bullet and recently took out Toyota extended warranty because I am nearing the time and km on the factory warranty and now I am even more glad that I did. I hope for you that Toyota come to the party and sort this out. A toyota blowing an engine in under 100,000km? Doesn't happen, except it has for you and John (greynomad) and a few others. Oh what a fleecing, Toyota.
                    My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: D4D Death

                      This is all a bit rich IMO.

                      I love Toyotas to death. Have nearly always owned one or two at at time.

                      The vehicle is warrantied for a certain period of time when the company wears the costs if the vehicle has a problem. Their gamble is that the vehicle will be reliable and they wont have to fork out for any repairs.

                      Once that warranty is over the its up to the owner to decide if they are going to take out insurance in the form of an extended warranty or save the money and gamble that all will be okay.

                      You have gambled and sadly you lost.

                      A Toyota is a machine. Well built but like all machines sometimes they break. And if they break before the warranty ends we dont hear Toyota saying "Oh come on fella, its ALMOST out of warranty, you fix it!" They did there bit IMO.

                      EDIT: I just read my post after a bit and thought it sounds a bit aggressive. Its not meant to be, I just think we need to accept our choices.
                      2009 120 V6 Auto. 265/70/17 Goodyear Silent Armours. Bilsteins and Kings Springs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: D4D Death

                        tt what you say is strictly true. The warranty is what the warranty is. The terms of a warranty are an exercise in probability for most manufacturers or an exercise in marketing for others who choose to offer better than average conditions to entice buyers.

                        However the fact remains that Toyota's are (have been?) inherently reliable without major dramas for a good many years beyond warranty. A bullet proof engine and driveline is what has drawn many people to the company. My 90 was 6 years old and had 150,000km on it when I sold it and there was nothing to suggest that it wouldn't easily run for another 150,000km. That is why we buy Toyotas.

                        Unlike you I don't love mine to bits and it's unlikely I would buy a run of the mill Toyota. The Prado is a 4wd that does what I ask of it (now) and it was the best option for what my family want to do. My confidence in the D4D has been rocked by quite a few local injector failures (here on the forum and outside), some within warranty and some outside warranty. That is not the usual Toyota toughness regardless of what the warranty may or may not say. And why I took out the extended Toyota warranty despite the fact that it is quite expensive.

                        On the advice of a mate who was a mechanic I steered clear of another manufacturer since they changed to a 4 cylinder diesel. A decision that has been proven prudent given the events of the last few years including another mate whose current model commited seppuku (harakiri) a couple of weekends ago.

                        My point is that the vehicle in question is so close to warranty time and within warranty distance that in my opinion Toyota should come to the party to show their confidence in the vehicle. OK if it hasn't been maintained or has been driven expressly beyond what is reasonable but I doubt that is the case here. If Toyota don't then they will look like a white good manufacturer who is designing for the warranty period plus a week not a relatively trouble free 5 years or 10 years that most of us have experienced with past Toyotas. Engine/injector/turbo failures on vehicles that are maintained properly and that are only a few years old are just not what is expected from a Toyota. At least by me.

                        Michael
                        My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: D4D Death

                          Hi Masso,
                          Really sorry to hear about the bearing failure, I hope Toyota do the right thing and offer some form of renumeration to you.
                          07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: D4D Death

                            being the vehicle is out of the warranty period, the dealer can still put in for an "out of warranty consideration" request.
                            our vehicle was out of warranty when we had an issue, and toyota came to the party with 50% contribution.
                            that to me is more that acceptable.
                            the warranty period on a vehicle is like that of an insurance company policy.
                            do you think EG NRMA or others would pay for your house to be rebuilt if you let your policy lapse. i don't think they would.
                            all i'm saying is toyota look at each out of warranty claim individually, and if you have all service history and all within km's,
                            i think they will come to the party. and to me that is acceptable.

                            normally a toyota area representative will visit the dealer (that is claiming/has vehicle), and thoughly inspect history, receipts, inspect pictures taken by dealer, and inspect engine/components.
                            then week to a month later, dealer has report and findings sent to them.

                            as long as MASSO has all relavent supporing info, he will get something.
                            [url=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/damonat/prado][img]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/50578.png[/img][/url]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: D4D Death

                              MASSO - Good luck. I hope your efforts with Toyota come good.
                              Just on Toyota Diesel motors! I previously had a 1974 Hilux-Great car but-,
                              It cracked 3 Radiator top tanks-Great when one went in the Simpson!
                              Toyota said that it was because of rough use and incorrect fluid-Bull$#!t 3 in 3 years and they serviced the car and supposedly checked and replaced radiator fluids.
                              Then I had a rattle at the front of the car over and above the usual diesel rattle.
                              They said this was usual as the motor got older.
                              Lucky I had a mate that was a diesel mechanic. He picked the noise at once as he had heard it before. Worn keyway in the front of the crank!
                              If it had let go :shock:
                              He pulled the timing belt pulley off and lucky for me it had only just started to come loose.
                              He replaced it . Rattle gone and on further problem for 50K when I sold the car.
                              I never took the car back to Toyota because they charged $40- per hour (back then) and had apprentices'working on the cars!

                              Nick

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