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  • Main over Aux battery power supply

    Here is a curly one for ya, does anyone know why everyone wires up there auxillary bits and pieces to the auxillary battery and not the main battery.
    It has been suggested to me to wire ALL to the main battery and use the Aux battery as a jump start battery only.
    Easy and cheaply set up, but yet no one seems to do it?
    I am very interested to read the responses from our seasoned off roaders.

  • #2
    Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

    Hi Dippa,

    Maybe have a read of Derek's (ABR Sidewinder) latest article on ExplorOz;

    http://www.exploroz.com/Vehicle/Electri ... eries.aspx
    [color=#0040FF]Rob[/color]
    [color=#0040BF]2012 Altitude D4D &
    04 Jayco Eagle Outback[/color]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

      Originally posted by Dippa
      It has been suggested to me to wire ALL to the main battery and use the Aux battery as a jump start battery only.
      Easy and cheaply set up, but yet no one seems to do it?
      Hi dipper, while there is no real advantage to using an auxiliary battery as the cranking battery it would also cause the need for a hell of a lot of rewiring unless both batteries were side by side.

      There is a simple rule of thumb way to set up any vehicle’s batteries.

      All devices that are only going to be used while the motor is on, connect them to the cranking battery. All devices that will be use while the motor is off should be connected to the auxiliary battery(s)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

        Hi Signature, mate that article has so many fundamental errors in it that it is about as usefully as tits on a bull.

        First off, the average battery, including most AGMs, with take at least 4 to 6 hours the replace 60 amperes of used capacity in a single battery.

        If you were using something like an Optima Spiral AGM, then yes you could possibly recharge it in around to hours.

        But to even suggest that a standard AGM could tolerate a charge current of 45 amp is battery suicide. The average AGM has a maximum tolerable charge current of between 20% for batteries like Fullriver to a maximum of 30% on just a handful of AGMs.

        That’s a 20% charge current based the total capacity of the battery. So a 100 Ah Fullriver AGM can only be charged with a maximum charge current of 20 amps, NOT 45 amps. Best way I know to cook an AGM.

        Another point, this continual reference to 8B&S cable being 100 amp cable is not only wrong, it’s dangerous because the cable is only good for a safe maximum of 65 amps when used in dual battery set ups and the same goes for 6B&S cable which has a maximum safe current of only 90 amps.

        Another point, if a dual battery set up was expected to supply 60 amperes of power a day, you need to look at a bank of at least two auxiliary batteries because a single battery providing that sort of power requirement on a daily basis would have a very short operating life, no matter what type of battery it was.

        Furthermore, while 8B&S cable can be successfully used in dual battery systems, it is only useful when both batteries are located in the engine bay. Once the auxiliary battery is mounted any where else then 8B&S will cause far to much voltage drop and should not be used, and to say that 6B&S is only needed in EXTREME cases shows how little the article’s writer knows about dual battery set ups.

        In the vast majority of dual battery set ups, 6B&S in the standard size cable to used.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

          The purpose of the link was to explain why we conect to an auxilary battery and not the main, which I believe Derek covers well.

          Everyone has a differing opinion on semantics ...... yours is different to Derek's, and both are different to my own setup.
          [color=#0040FF]Rob[/color]
          [color=#0040BF]2012 Altitude D4D &
          04 Jayco Eagle Outback[/color]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

            Hi again Signature and if others reading that article were doing so for no other reason then that being discussed in this thread then your point would be valid and furthermore I would not have bothered commenting.

            The problem is that people will read that article and think that the other unrelated info was correct and they may act on it. This is the reason I posted up my comments, to make sure unsuspecting people were not mislead into thinking this article was anything but a fictional interpretation of a subject not understood be the writer.

            My response was based on protecting the safety of others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

              I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond.
              The wiring side isnt really a problem, just a positive lead from one + to the other + through a solonoid that is either actuated by a 12v button (if the main battery gets to low) or the 6mil wire running from the relay box (that has constant power when cranking and ignition, but dead when on accesories or key off.
              Thats only 2 wires crossing the engine bay.
              The reasoning was that if I was draining the Aux battery with fridge and lights, and one of my darling rug rats, leaves the interior lights on I potentially have 2 flat batterys.
              If ALL runs from Toyota mounted battery then I will always have a starting battery.
              I would still run the winch from the Aux (mainly as to eliminate the bulk build up of terminals) as That is done running(most of the time).
              thanks again for your replys.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                Finally got to check the system out today, I was camping in Dwellingup an received the Dreaded, click click, on the turn of the key. sussed it down to a bad earth on the back up battery, there where a few beads of sweat at the possibility of a duel battery set up and a PUSH start, but all good and working well. :wink:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                  Hi Dippa

                  \I have had mine set up like that in a 90 series for nearly 5 years now and never had a drama. Its saved me a few times when the dreaded click-click happens when you least expect it. I still have a good starter and aux battery as both are over 4 years old and going great. I am picking up my "new" 120 series tomorrow and planned to fit same system in it all going well.

                  Did you fit the Aux system as you mentioned? If so what do you think now about it? Its pretty simple to install etc ....
                  [size=1][color=#990000][b]--> Macarthur District 4WD Club Member <--[/b][/color]
                  ::2005 Black Grande Petrol V6::2 x PP Stickers::ARB Deluxe Winch Bar::IPF Spotties + Fogs:: Dual Battery, ABR DBi120 Isolator & Volt Monitor::ARB Portable Air:: Rear Drawer Unit::Trek Table::WAECO 40Lt::WAECO Raps R12U::AMTS Rear Tyre Spacer::HILUX Washers::UHF::Prodigy P3::Stebel Air Horns:: Inverter::CouplerTec Electronic Rustproofing::OEM Roof Racks, Towbar, Hard Wheel Cover::REAR CAMERA to factory GPS::[/size]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                    Originally posted by PradOz
                    Hi Dippa

                    \I have had mine set up like that in a 90 series for nearly 5 years now and never had a drama. Its saved me a few times when the dreaded click-click happens when you least expect it. I still have a good starter and aux battery as both are over 4 years old and going great. I am picking up my "new" 120 series tomorrow and planned to fit same system in it all going well.

                    Did you fit the Aux system as you mentioned? If so what do you think now about it? Its pretty simple to install etc ....
                    Certainly have, check out my build up, I cant believe its not more popular, so much cheaper and NO electronics to worry about.
                    Had 1 little hiccupp a couple of weeks ago, but that was just a poor earth that is all sorted now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                      Hi dippa just want to know if you run a fridge on your setup and if so how long will it run before you have a flat battery?
                      [color=#FF0000]ECB ally bar, IPF HID upgraded, dual battery with CTEK dc to dc inverter, 32lt Engel, Safari snorkel, GME UHF, Maxtrax, bridgstone duelers, Offroad camper Trailer [/color]

                      [color=#0040FF]WISH LIST: lift kit, Onboard compressor,recovery points [/color]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                        Originally posted by bdaearth
                        Hi dippa just want to know if you run a fridge on your setup and if so how long will it run before you have a flat battery?
                        Yep, I have an 80ltr Weaco, it runs for about 24 hours with the kids in there every 5 minutes, trying to decide what to have. Other wise a good 48 hours. I haven't got to the stage where the fridge stops, so thats a good thing, beer still cold.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                          Hi DIPPA

                          I am nearly ready to reinstall my second battery in my new 120. Just trying to decide what to connect to which battery when I use the same system as you :?

                          So with that in mind could you list what:

                          1) you decided to connect to your starter battery?

                          2) what you connected to your AUX battery?

                          3) for the stuff that you dont have yet (the wish list) - to which battery will you connect these things?

                          If you have set up the second purely as a backup to the starter, have you got everything connected to the starter with the second sitting "empty"? (if you have the 2nd one empty, maybe worthwhile considering running something off it so power draws down from it and it then has to recharge)

                          What did you use as your Aux battery?

                          thanks Mick
                          [size=1][color=#990000][b]--> Macarthur District 4WD Club Member <--[/b][/color]
                          ::2005 Black Grande Petrol V6::2 x PP Stickers::ARB Deluxe Winch Bar::IPF Spotties + Fogs:: Dual Battery, ABR DBi120 Isolator & Volt Monitor::ARB Portable Air:: Rear Drawer Unit::Trek Table::WAECO 40Lt::WAECO Raps R12U::AMTS Rear Tyre Spacer::HILUX Washers::UHF::Prodigy P3::Stebel Air Horns:: Inverter::CouplerTec Electronic Rustproofing::OEM Roof Racks, Towbar, Hard Wheel Cover::REAR CAMERA to factory GPS::[/size]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                            Hi PradOz, Nothing is connected to the Aux battery except the main batter, once the solenoid is excited. Everything, from the fridge to the spotties and the compressor run off the main factory battery. I double checked with the auto sparky that gave me the idea there is no need to have a draw from the aux battery, every time you start the car that battery contributes. The idea is not to have any way possible way of the aux battery losing charge, as for the type I used a 600cca battery about the size of a N50, I think it is, its a lot smaller an lighter than the factory N70Z. I also understand that there are alot of sceptics out there that think if it isn't electronically controlled and huge coin then it cant work, well I know for a fact that it works, and works well. Anyway I'll jump off the soap box. I hope that answers your questions.
                            Good luck with the fit up.

                            Ps there is a 12v pick up for the solenoid excitement in the relay box, on my GX there is a relay plug that is not used, it has power on ign and crank only, just what you want.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Main over Aux battery power supply

                              IMHO that sounds like a reasonable option for certain usage (eg short overnight stops), but I can think of 2 reasons to use the traditional isolator/aux-battery system:

                              1. It allows you to use a deep-cycle battery for your aux which will be more tolerant of deep discharges if that is what you regularly do. I suppose you could use a deep-cycle for the main but I don't think it's wise to pull cranking amps from a deep-cycle battery.

                              2. The redarc isolator that I use draws from both batteries until the main and aux are approx 33% discharged, then it isolates and discharges the aux only. This means I won't be discharging the aux as much, or will provide a longer period before recharging is necessary. For example if I have two 90AH batteries and while camped my fridge consumes a total of 100AH, it will take 30AH from the main and 70AH from the aux. With your setup you'd be needing to recharge long before I need to.

                              I see your point about inadvertently discharging both batteries due to interior lights left on etc - I try to make a point of turning all interior lights off when camping because it is common to leave car doors/rear door open for long periods of time, and I am also concerned about draining the main battery. I do have an extra dash switch to parallel the batteries for starting which might save the day if the main is low.
                              2008 D4D and a very long dog
                              [url=http://pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5318&p=74777&sid=afe8667706bc76d907c8fa81464352d4&sid=1d0b38233e6e0a28f012b5561ec1d59e#p74777]Our Prado[/url]

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