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  • V6 - Intermittently hard to start

    Hello PRADO Point Friends
    I have a 2006 Petrol Prado, Automatic with a dual battery set-up (Rotronics).
    More recently, last 6 months I have noticed the engine start cycle can take up to 6 seconds for the engine to start and starter to disengage automatically on an intermittent basis.
    The Start Battery was changed, after 2 and a half years (panasonic battery) and I replaced it with the battery sitting in the AUX position after these symptons occured with the OEM battery and my Aux Battery is now an AGM and my start Battery is a calcium Lead Acid battery about 3 years old that was used in my AUX positiion.
    Seeing I had the same problem as the OEM Panasonic Start Battery to what I have today in the replaced Start Battery, and the problem doesnt always happen, I was thinking this problem could lie elsewhere.
    Can anybody else verify if this has happened to them, if so what they found the problem to be OR any experts wishing to give me a theory I am more than happy to read it.
    Brgds
    Glen A

  • #2
    Re: Prado 2006-Starter taking 4 to 6 seconds for engine to start

    take it to an auto elect to test the solenoid on the starter, other than that, how many times would it do it out of 10 starts. cheers samo
    had an 03 gx 120 with some gear now got a 2013 bt 50 GT auto some ARB gear.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Prado 2006-Starter taking 4 to 6 seconds for engine to start

      More recently, last 6 months I have noticed the engine start cycle can take up to 6 seconds for the engine to start and starter to disengage automatically on an intermittent basis.
      Am I reading this right?: it cranks over for 4-6 seconds before the engine starts?

      If so then there's nothing wrong with your battery!

      Check for ECM fault codes.


      Mick
      [CENTER][B][I][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
      Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost![/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B][/CENTER]

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      • #4
        Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

        I have exactly the same problem on my 03 petrol. I had previously PM'ed MickL about locating an auto electrician nearby to me and described the problem and he has responded exactly the same. I haven't taken mine back to Toyota yet but my Tarago is going in for a recall tomorrow and I'll get them to plug the computer in to have a quick look while I've got the Prado there as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Prado 2006-Starter taking 4 to 6 seconds for engine to start

          Originally posted by samo
          take it to an auto elect to test the solenoid on the starter, other than that, how many times would it do it out of 10 starts. cheers samo
          I think I will do that, thought someone on here might have experienced a similiar problem. On average I would say maybe 1 or 2 starts out of 10 it will act this way as I explained.
          Thanks for your response samo.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Prado 2006-Starter taking 4 to 6 seconds for engine to start

            Originally posted by MickL
            More recently, last 6 months I have noticed the engine start cycle can take up to 6 seconds for the engine to start and starter to disengage automatically on an intermittent basis.
            Am I reading this right?: it cranks over for 4-6 seconds before the engine starts?

            If so then there's nothing wrong with your battery!

            Check for ECM fault codes.


            Mick
            Yes thats it Mick, my timing was probably a little exagerated, more like 3 secs to 4 secs for engine to start, but most times it will start straight away.
            I asked Toyota to check this when I had my last service (80000km), would they check for ECM fault codes on every service?
            Thanks for the response Mick

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

              Originally posted by amts
              I have exactly the same problem on my 03 petrol. I had previously PM'ed MickL about locating an auto electrician nearby to me and described the problem and he has responded exactly the same. I haven't taken mine back to Toyota yet but my Tarago is going in for a recall tomorrow and I'll get them to plug the computer in to have a quick look while I've got the Prado there as well.
              Thats interesting, I would love to hear the outcome of Toyotas diagnosis. Could you provide this for me?
              Thanks for your response amts

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                Originally posted by glenattard
                Thats interesting, I would love to hear the outcome of Toyotas diagnosis. Could you provide this for me?
                Thanks for your response amts
                Went to Toyota this morning and they won't do a quick check. I'll need to make an appointment and it will have to be in the new year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                  Thanks Andrew, Let me know when they diagnose the problem.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                    Prado went in to see the doctor (Northpoint Toyota, Hillcrest) today and the diagnosis is non-genuine spark plugs. At least that is what they think is the most likely cause.
                    Is changing the spark plugs hard? I don't have the Prado with me now to take a look. If it's easy, I'll change it myself.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                      Originally posted by amts
                      Prado went in to see the doctor (Northpoint Toyota, Hillcrest) today and the diagnosis is non-genuine spark plugs. At least that is what they think is the most likely cause.
                      Is changing the spark plugs hard? I don't have the Prado with me now to take a look. If it's easy, I'll change it myself.
                      Hi Amts:
                      Check out this post very informative:http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2411
                      07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                        Thanks Clifton.

                        The car stayed overnight at the dealer and got it back today. I then set about mucking around under the car to replacing the blocked grease nipples. An hour and a bit later, I started the car to move the car back into the garage and the same problem is still there. So the change in spark plugs did not help!! :x

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                          I'm thinking the cause may be a little different .... but its a perfect thread title ..... so why start a new one :lol:


                          I've now been without my Prado for a significant part of the school holidays, on and off .... and it has been at the service centre for the last 10 days :shock:


                          It will probably make a bit more sense if I tell the story chronologically .... so here goes ....


                          She's an '03 V6 that's had a tiny bit of work done for touring .... and she's been around once or twice ....

                          Early in December we started to get the odd temperamental episode ..... head out for an errand, park, complete the errand, return - and it wouldn't start.
                          Wait 10 or 20 minutes ... then she'd start. Mildly annoying ... book it in for a service as soon as holidays start.

                          Heaps of electrical power .... but no noise. No spinning over - No CLICK.
                          Sounds suspiciously like a sticking starter motor solenoid.

                          This intermittent starting stuff became a little more frequent as the weather warmed up ..... to the point where we didn't take the Prado unless we were going to stop for half an hour or more.


                          Towards the middle of December the episodes increased ... and so did the duration. I was stranded at Bunnings (YES - I know ... that's not such a bad thing) for several hours on a Sunday morning.
                          I had gone down there for probably 15 minutes of shopping. Its a 5 to 6 Km drive to get there .... at 7.30 in the morning ... so it was quite cool.
                          It refused to start ... and by noon I got Bek to come and pick me up .... and when we returned at 3 pm it started straight away.


                          Had a chat to Marty (Bro in law - mechanic) who suggested STARTER MOTOR SOLENOID ..... with a DUD BATTERY CELL or the STARTER RELAY as possible runner's up. Sounds like a likely line-up.


                          Pulled both batteries and ran them up for a couple of days on the CTek to recon and fully charge them. Even swapped them over in case one was just playing up.
                          Took the sandpaper / wire brush / battery terminal spray to every electrical connection I could find and gave them a good clean-up.

                          Couldn't get the Prado in for its service until the week before xmas .... so I had a week of waiting.
                          During the week the fail to start episodes became more frequent ... something I attributed (perhaps incorrectly) to the increasing temps.
                          I also started carrying a small hammer ... and found that a subtle tap or two on the starter solenoids outer case would allow it to start.


                          Finally ... she went in for the service. Diagnosis .... "Starter motors probably shouldn't swim :? ". The solenoid was buggered and the starter itself had seen better days.
                          Not a worry ... bung in a new one.

                          Beautifull ... she started and went all over the place ... for the entire xmas week ...... then on New Year's Eve ... as we were about to head out .... she refused to start.


                          Waited out the whole long weekend and surprised my local service manager by sitting there waiting on his doorstep when he arrived back at work.

                          No worries ... whacked it straight into the workshop ... Diagnosis: Starter relay.
                          Put one in ... she started .... no worries.


                          Drove around for a week .... started fine.
                          About to head out and do a bit of shopping just before my birthday ..... and she wouldn't start !!!!!

                          .... and she's been there ever since.


                          Diagnosis ... so far .....

                          Ignition circuit tests for current from the key barrell to the starter perfectly. Perhaps a crushed or broken wire in the circuit to make it intermittent.

                          Then it started to fault more frequently in the workshop ..... this is a good thing .... because until then it hadn't faulted on them.


                          With the diagnostic machine plugged in ... when the thing won't start ..... the error message indicates that there is no ECU present. Ooops ... ECU's are expensive !

                          When the fault isn't present all diagnostics show the ECU to be in perfect health. Sigh of relief :roll:

                          All indications are that one of the sensors feeding the ECU is faulting and sending a DO NOT START signal .... or worse .. shutting down the ECU.


                          Now I've got no idea how many sensors feed the ECU ... but one of them is stuffed.
                          At the moment the service centre is waiting for the car to fault ... plugging in the diagnostics ... and tracking the signal to each sensor.
                          Unfortunately ... with all of the jiggling of wires and moving stuff around it isn't faulting as frequently or for as long ..... so they often don't get a decent run a searching.


                          Talking to the Service Manager the other day .... they had a Land Cruiser in that refused to start.
                          Turned out to be the CAM POSITION sensor was failing because one of the wires had been crushed and partially broken ....
                          ..... so quite frequently the sensor would report that the cam wasn't in the position to start.


                          Perhaps the fault with my bus is something similar .... certainly possible with the number of rocks flying around under the car on the GCR last year.


                          I'm curious to know if anyone has experienced something similar ...... or has any ideas on where to look ..... 'çause I'm getting a bitumen rash on my butt driving a Camry (Courtesy Car - with the Dealership signage plastered all over it).

                          Cheers
                          Chippy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                            If it has points and carby I could probably help you out on what the problem is . There are to many sensors now days to directly point the problem to one area . Good Luck

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: V6 - Intermittently hard to start

                              Thanks Matt

                              Nice clear explanation of what's going on.

                              As Fishfinder said ... Ïf it had points and a carby I'd be alright :roll:


                              Its certainly time to give the old girl a bit of a clean up.

                              When I've done that I'll look at the Prado :lol: :lol: :lol:


                              .... and a bit of waterproofing certainly wouldn't go astray.

                              Cheers
                              Chippy

                              Comment

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