Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

    Hello all genuises.
    I have a scenario I will try my best to explain, but if you dont understand please let me know and I will try to clarify.
    I drive a 4 litre Petrol Prado towing an Australian off road camper. Camper has 2 calcium batteries 120a/h each (240a/h total). Prado has an aux 4X4/Truck calcium battery, I think its 70a/h. I have a TJM IBS dual battery isolator seperating the starting battery from the aux/camper batteries. With this isolator you can manually parrallel all batteries together.
    I was camping at a powered site this weekend with my CTEK 25A charging my camper batteries which will power an Evakool 50ltr fridge, lights and Water pump. I also had my car aux battery connected to the camper via an Anderson plug. I was listening to music from the car stereo (powered by starting battery) most of the day and thought that as I am connected to 240V with a 25A CTEK charger, why dont I charge my car batteries (both starting and aux). I could do this electrically by manually closing isolator to connect all 4 batteries together by the TJM IBS Controller.
    So CTEK output was 14.5 volts in recondition mode and this volt was checked at camper batteries and Anderson plug from trailer. Car was still electrically connected to camper via Anderson Plug. Now the Voltage checked at both car batteries was 12.17 volts (car engine NOT running). Why I thought.
    Anderson Plug wiring is off heavy gauge, I think 6 or 8 gauge. Both Car Batteries have a Projecta Fused Positive terminal post on them. They have a red cover on them and allow you to have 3 fused outputs straight of the positive terminal battery post. (Dont know if you know what Im talking about here, but I dont think its important.)
    I electrically disconnected the positive terminal of the Anderson plug straight off the Aux battery post and voltage checked at 14.5V. And then when you connect it too the Aux Battery terminal post, this battery and the starting battery are again reading 12.17V.
    With Camper and car electrically disconnected the car batteries are reading 12.17V with the 2 car batteries parralleled.
    Why?? Shouldnt all batteries be reading 14.5V in this scenario.
    Can anyone explain this. Could both car batteries have an internal resistance (a failed cell)
    Would love an explaination, so please if you have a theory or better still, an answer to this problem, please take the time to jot it down. Its GMF'd

    Tiger

  • #2
    Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

    My immediate reaction would be that you have a high resistance joint somewhere in the cabling/connectors between the camper and car batteries. If you are getting 14.5V at the car end of the cable with no load and only 12.17V under load (connected to the main battery) then you are dropping the 2.33V difference in the cable/connections.
    To get a clear picture of what is happening you really need to know the current in the cable from the camper to the main battery.
    The first thing I would do is check and clean all the connections. Note that getting 14.5V at the car end under no load only proves there is an electrical circuit – what you need is an electrical circuit with as low a resistance as possible.

    Leachy
    EX-Prado Owner

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

      Originally posted by glenattard

      Can anyone explain this. Could both car batteries have an internal resistance (a failed cell)


      Tiger
      a failed cell would give you a drop of 2 volts per cell, so unlikely of a failed cell.
      logic says you should have your charge rate at all batteries, but lower current, as it's being shared.

      sorry not really answering your question.
      [url=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/damonat/prado][img]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/50578.png[/img][/url]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

        Originally posted by leachy_9
        My immediate reaction would be that you have a high resistance joint somewhere in the cabling/connectors between the camper and car batteries. If you are getting 14.5V at the car end of the cable with no load and only 12.17V under load (connected to the main battery) then you are dropping the 2.33V difference in the cable/connections.
        To get a clear picture of what is happening you really need to know the current in the cable from the camper to the main battery.
        The first thing I would do is check and clean all the connections. Note that getting 14.5V at the car end under no load only proves there is an electrical circuit – what you need is an electrical circuit with as low a resistance as possible.

        Leachy
        Also check your your cable sizing as well... Drawing high currents through small supply cables will have an adverse affect on voltage. This along with dodgy connections as leachy said maybe why you need to connect the ctek to your camper in the first place? (As camper is not charging to full capacity from alternator).
        2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
        Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

        [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
        [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

          I would suggest that your isolator uses a semiconductor to provide isolation between your main and Aux /trailer batteries . As the intention of the isolator is for charging from the altenator the current will only flow in that direction even when manually "connected " together . As a result when connected to a charger in the trailer no current would flow to the car batteries hence no equalisation of charge state . If indeed there was flow and there was there was some resistance in the connection between the two the voltage difference would still diminish over time as resistance is only a problem when current flows .
          The 12.7 volts between the car batteries would be fairly normal "quiesent" voltage for a standard car battery . It is generally not considered to be a good idea to parallel batteries if disimilar types as they generally have different charge state characteristics and then only one will attain full charge . To overcome this type of install a "smart charger" that can step up or down the voltage is required for best results .
          It is also possible to have too much battery capacity for the charge / discharge cycle , this is a problem as batteries only work efficiently through a nominal range .
          Bugger isn't life complicated !!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

            G'day all, Has anyone tried a battery booster ie 8 to 16volt input for a 13.8v regulated output to charge second battery?
            Monty Landcruiser LC200.D4D.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

              It varies according to battery type, and even between manufacturers, but to 100% charge a battery you need around 14.4V
              While 13.6V will keep a fully charged battery in that state (float voltage) it will not fully recharge a battery that has been discharged. To achieve a full recharge you need a higher voltage (boost voltage).

              Leachy
              EX-Prado Owner

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                Originally posted by Monty
                G'day all, Has anyone tried a battery booster ie 8 to 16volt input for a 13.8v regulated output to charge second battery?
                Monty,

                Have a look here: Ranox 3 stage charger (booster)

                Crammy
                2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
                Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

                [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
                [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                  For those that have dual batteries what sort of battery voltage do you get on both batteries whilst driving. I would have thought that since the batteries are in parallel the voltages should be almost similar. This weekend we had 13.4 on the main and down to 11.8 on the aux. whilst traveling. The solar cell was off the vehicle. The aux. was running the fridge and considering the number of hours of engine run time the auxiliary will need a substantial recharge.
                  Any thoughts. Why oh why does the d4d alternator run such low voltage.

                  Cheers

                  Steve
                  Lightforce 240Blitz driving lights, Rear hitch recovery point, GME tx3400 uhf, 64watt Uni-Solar cell, ARB CKMA12 Air compressor. all awaiting new vehicle to be delivered so they can be remounted.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                    Steve,

                    The D4D Alternator output is ECU controlled and varies the charge voltage depending on the voltage at the main battery. This is the exact reason why to get max. charging of the Aux. battery in a D4D an isolated Boost system/charger is required. Simple solenoid systems will have a relatively slow recharge rate and will only ever achieve approx. 80% recharge of the Aux. at best. This may be OK for people just going away for a weekend now and then but once you start asking more of the Aux. battery and charging system the limitions caused by the D4D alternator become apparent.
                    EX-Prado Owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                      Thanks Crammy,
                      Sounds a good product for spare batteries, However, I am more interested in the MAIN or STARTING battery. Had my truck at the auto electricians yesterday and they tried all the tricks that they could even to fitting a new battery and with the same result. Lucky to get above 13.4 volts at 1500revs. The end result was if mit causes a major problem they will look further. It is thought that the ECU may be the problem in the way it controls the charge volktage rate. Will let the group know if anything new happens.
                      Monty
                      Monty Landcruiser LC200.D4D.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                        Originally posted by Monty
                        Thanks Crammy,
                        Sounds a good product for spare batteries, However, I am more interested in the MAIN or STARTING battery. Had my truck at the auto electricians yesterday and they tried all the tricks that they could even to fitting a new battery and with the same result. Lucky to get above 13.4 volts at 1500revs. The end result was if mit causes a major problem they will look further. It is thought that the ECU may be the problem in the way it controls the charge volktage rate. Will let the group know if anything new happens.
                        Monty
                        Monty,

                        What problems are you having with your alternator? The voltage you have is quite normal for a D4D. Mine drops down to 13.2 with no load on it. With load I have seen it come down as far as 12.5v. For charging the main battery it does a good job... Charges it enough to get you started and the battery to about 80%, if that. I haven't used my winch in anger yet so I can't wait for the day I do, hopefully the alternator at least supplies it's maximum current rating!

                        If you get stuck you may be able to put an alternator in from the earlier model which is not ECU controlled. I am led to believe the ECU controlled alternator is in there to comply with emission standards. I don't think it would be feasible to supply a booster directly from the alternator to supply your car voltage requirements. You would need quite a hefty booster and would most likely have to mount it in the cabin somewhere due to most boosters not being suitable to go under the bonnet.

                        Cheers,

                        Crammy
                        2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
                        Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

                        [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
                        [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                          Originally posted by Monty
                          Thanks Crammy,
                          Sounds a good product for spare batteries, However, I am more interested in the MAIN or STARTING battery. Had my truck at the auto electricians yesterday and they tried all the tricks that they could even to fitting a new battery and with the same result. Lucky to get above 13.4 volts at 1500revs. The end result was if mit causes a major problem they will look further. It is thought that the ECU may be the problem in the way it controls the charge volktage rate. Will let the group know if anything new happens.
                          Monty
                          Interestng read http://twosharp.com/prado/prado.pdf
                          [url=http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=12264]My Prado[/url]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                            Originally posted by blkmav90
                            Originally posted by Monty
                            Thanks Crammy,
                            Sounds a good product for spare batteries, However, I am more interested in the MAIN or STARTING battery. Had my truck at the auto electricians yesterday and they tried all the tricks that they could even to fitting a new battery and with the same result. Lucky to get above 13.4 volts at 1500revs. The end result was if mit causes a major problem they will look further. It is thought that the ECU may be the problem in the way it controls the charge volktage rate. Will let the group know if anything new happens.
                            Monty
                            Interestng read http://twosharp.com/prado/prado.pdf
                            This appears to be for non ECU controlled alternators, but interesting none the less.
                            2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
                            Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

                            [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
                            [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Battery Charging, Have a read of this!!!

                              Thanks Crammy,
                              Yes these are the voltages I am getting and when an hygrometer is used on the starting battery I am getting readings of 1.2 which is below the "GREEN" area which tells me the battery isnot fully charged and this is after many hours on the road. Using another alternator is not an option for me . I always carry a generator so if I get stuck with a flat battery, out comes the coffepot then the gennie.
                              Thanks for you input
                              Monty
                              Monty Landcruiser LC200.D4D.

                              Comment

                              canli bahis siteleri bahis siteleri ecebet.net
                              mencisport.com
                              antalya escort
                              tsyd.org deneme bonusu veren siteler
                              deneme bonusu veren siteler
                              gaziantep escort
                              gaziantep escort
                              asyabahis maltcasino olabahis olabahis
                              erotik film izle Rus escort gaziantep rus escort
                              atasehir escort tuzla escort
                              sikis sex hatti
                              en iyi casino siteleri
                              deneme bonusu veren siteler
                              casibom
                              deneme bonusu veren siteler
                              deneme bonusu veren siteler
                              betticket istanbulbahis
                              Working...
                              X