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  • AGM Battery Queries

    Hi Guys,

    I'm looking at doing my dual battery in a few weeks and have been considering getting an AGM battery as the Auxillary. This would be located in the usual front drivers location probably on a pirahna tray.

    I've seen Pedro report that AGMs can have issues under the bonnet but I don't know why. Does anyone know the detail behind this?
    http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic....&sd=a&start=15

    The battery I'm looking at is an Absorbed Power 90Ah battery:
    http://www.absorbedpower.com/battery/pdf/GT12-90C.pdf


    Another option, altough not a true AGM is an Amp-Tech 105Ah by Super Charger
    http://linux.supercharge.com.au/prod...ail.php?seq=84

    I read a review somehwere which gave a pretty good report on the Amp Tech but this is not a AGM and I've read that the AGMs are more reliable than a standard Lead Acid. The thing is the Amp-Tech is not a standard Lead Acid as it is sealed and but uses something called EXG which I believe is some sort of gridding simillar to an AGM (I think).

    There is a fair sort of price difference between the two and there is the saying you get what you pay for but that dosn't always hold true. I've had a price direct from Super Charge for just over $200 while the Absorbed Power sits around the $400.

    So I'm after comments on the following:
    • What is the issue with AGMs located under the bonnet? Is this a heat related issue?[/*:m:1yxp45y1]
    • Has anyone had expeience with either Absorbed Power or Amp Tech brands and or the specific batteries I've listed, or any other AGM batteries for that matter[/*:m:1yxp45y1]
    • Does anyone know much about the EXG tech that Amp Tech have used in their battery. When I asked the guys at Super Charge they just indicated this was a lead expanded grid but couldn't elaborate anymore than that.[/*:m:1yxp45y1]

    Did a seach on this but couldn't find anything on AGM which is funny since I actully found this in the comments from Pedro as listed above. Could be the search on the forum is still a little bit dicky.
    Just wondering if anyone has used either of these brand batteries and what there comments are.

    Thanks
    [COLOR=#000080]Nick[/COLOR]
    [URL="http://pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5308&sid=bcbebadd30673f1ac72047e6e8a93d79"]2006 TD GXL Evolution & Trips[/URL]
    [URL=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/Schaffer/prado][IMG]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/45547.png[/IMG][/URL]
    [img]http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/Schaffer71/Avatar/CooperCreek.jpg[/img] [img]http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/Schaffer71/Avatar/BendlebyRanges.jpg[/img]

  • #2
    Re: AGM Battery Queries

    Hi Nick,

    Have you seen the "What deep cycle battery do you use?" thread? There's a great discussion about AGM and other types of batteries in that thread.

    Basically, the AGM suffers from heat and may cause the battery to fail. Advice from the thread and also from a couple of auto-elecs in my area, suggested AGM was not a good option for under-bonnet installations due to heat issues.

    Having said that, there are plenty of folk who have installed AGM under the bonnet and not reported failures due to heat. Personally, I love the electrical characteristics of the AGM and was within a whisker of buying one. Though the heat issues are a concern, so I'm now heading down the wet-cell cranking-battery path, eg Exide Extreme or maybe Optima. I've delayed my purchase decision till sometime later in 2009... right after a planned suspension ugprade. It would be sooner if the markets recoverd... HA!

    All the best with the decision making.
    LFaR.
    [size=1][color=#770000]29Feb12:[/color][color=#777700]12GXLTD Auto, ARB Deluxe Winch bar, WARN 9.5xp Winch, IPF 900XS, Tow, Safari snorkel, Front + Rear Recovery points, ARB OME NC Sports, ATZ-4Rib[/color][color=grey], Silver[/color]. [color=orange][b]MaxTrax[/b][/color], [color=maroon]ScanGuage II[/color], [color=blue]ARB CKMA12[/color], [color=deeppink]UHF: GME TX3440 AE4018K1 UNH047SX[/color], [color=darkgreen]Bushranger Air Jack[/color], [color=green]Staun + ARB Deflators[/color], [color=brown]WindCheetah Roof Rack[/color], [color=green]Foxwing[/color], [color=red]Super Charge MRV70, Redarc BCDC1220[/color], [color=darkblue]ARB 60L fridge[/color], [color=blue]MSA Fridge Dropdown slide[/color], [color=darkyellow]DRIFTA Drawers[/color], [color=gold]TJM Bash Plates[/color], [color=brown]TG150[/color].[/size]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: AGM Battery Queries

      Nick,

      What motor are you running in the rig? Is it the D4D?

      I had a wetcell setup in my D4D and while it was a good setup for overnighters, it wasn't the best for longer trips such as the cape trip we did. Reason being is that the auxillary battery takes for ever to get up to say 80-90% charge. What I found was the battery would charge up to this rate but seemed to take a weeks worth of driving with no load to get it up to that rate. On stop start trips (cape trip) with the fridge on constantly, I found that the aux battery was only charging to about 60-70% during the day. And would be below 50% the next morning, not ideal for battery longevity. Some mornings I could hear the redarc pulling in out and for about 20-30kms before the aux battery came up. In the end the battery acid through the engine bay sealed the wetcells fate!

      Now that's my experience with the D4D and wetcell... It may not be applicable to you at all!!

      What I did find with my wetcell also was that it leaked acid everywhere on the rougher offroad trips so I swapped it for the Absorbed power AGM setup. I decided against running along side the wetcell up the front a few reasons.

      - Weight over the front
      - Longevity of AGM in a hot environment (Given the AGM is worth $400, seemed wise to me)
      - Charging AGM along side a wetcell can in some cases overcharge the wetcell as the AGM and wetcells have different internal resistances.
      - D4D charge rates controlled by the ECU and in my opinion not conducive to maintaining the AGM at it's max Ah capability.

      So this all led me to getting the AGM and buying a Ranox 3 stage charger to me this meant:

      - Battery charged to 100% everytime, the full 90Ah's are usable, not that I would flatten it dead but will give me at least 40 reliable Ah's on long trips as opposed to say 10Ah on my old setup.
      - Battery longevity/reliablity.
      - Weight savings by removing the battery when not required.
      - Eliminates any worry about comments regarding cracking of guards and trays pulling out.

      Now this was just my experience with the whole thing in my D4D... I'm a fussy bastard when it comes to this stuff and I like mucking around with it as it's what I do for a living... It may not be suitable for you or your rig. The cost and complexity of this setup may turn you off and depending on what you'll be using your dual battery system for will ultimatley determine which way you go.

      These would be my choices on the two different engines:

      D4D

      Ultimate long touring
      - Ranox charger (or smiliar dc-dc 3 stage charger) and AGM

      Weekend warrior/cost saver.
      - Redarc and SEALED wetcell

      Non-D4D

      Ultimate
      - A snazzy battery monitoring system like TJM's or piranha and wetcell

      Budget conscious and not worried about bling.
      - Redarc and Sealed Wetcell

      Sorry for the long winded spiel, some may not agree but I'm just going on what I have found with my previous system.

      Cheers,

      Crammy
      2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
      Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

      [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
      [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AGM Battery Queries

        No I hadn't seen that thread but did a search on "AGM", "Absorbed Power", "Amptech", "Amp-tech". I didn't think to try "Deep Cycle" so fair call.

        Yes search is your friend but a search on AGM gives squat:
        http://pradopoint.com/search.php?key...b0ceb31b384937
        Maybe a limitation on length of search criteria

        I'll read this thread with keen interest.
        [COLOR=#000080]Nick[/COLOR]
        [URL="http://pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5308&sid=bcbebadd30673f1ac72047e6e8a93d79"]2006 TD GXL Evolution & Trips[/URL]
        [URL=http://www.fuelly.com/driver/Schaffer/prado][IMG]http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-metric/45547.png[/IMG][/URL]
        [img]http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/Schaffer71/Avatar/CooperCreek.jpg[/img] [img]http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/Schaffer71/Avatar/BendlebyRanges.jpg[/img]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: AGM Battery Queries

          Crammy and LFaR are pointing you in the right direction with the AGM. I kept the AGM from my 90 and stayed with the under bonnet installation as I had no issues with heat previously. Changed to a Rotronics isolator to prevent over charging the main battery. This is covered in the other post referred to in LFaR's reply. The D4D seems to charge ok but I have reservations in the longer term/short trips and expect to top up the AGM with a 240V charger occasionally but so far so good. For the little inconvenience with an occasional 240V charge I cannot see the value now in also getting a Ranox style DC DC charger and I am in the process of researching a solar panel to augment the charge while camping. Probably would have gone to the Ranox system if I knew about it before I bought the Rotronics isolator.

          We keep our 52L fridge in the car running all the time and the AGM is wired up to the fridge (6 B&S cable to auxiliary outlets in the back), compressor and spot/fog lights.

          Will do a product review on the solar panel when I give it a test next month ( :lol: :lol: :lol: HOLIDAYS / Fraser Coast :lol: :lol: :lol: ).

          In summary:

          Good points:

          Effectively holds more charge as it can be discharged deeper
          Accepts a much faster charge than a conventional battery so can get back up to charge quickly
          More tolerant of deep cycling
          Can get to 100% charge with standard alternator systems
          Sealed, no acid leaks

          Bad points:

          Not tolerant of high temperatures
          Heavy (mine is about 40kg)
          Relatively expensive up front but cheaper on $/Ah basis

          I haven't actually posted any photos of my installation so I thought I would put a couple here:

          General view of the engine bay



          AGM battery in modified tray. Just a standard off the shelf tray (not sure which brand but maybe Piranha copy) with a piece of 25x3 flat welded in to extend it to suit the 13" battery and an additional support off the inner guard


          The control modules are on the pasenger side out of the way (not much room left now)


          The internal control unit is under the ash tray. This allows either battery to be charged as the dedicated battery or if left alone the systems manages the charge between the two batteries


          Hope this all helps. Any questions feel free to pm.

          Michael
          My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: AGM Battery Queries

            Plenty of good explanation on AGM's already here, so this is just a recommendation. Get a Pulse Hyper PHN70 - absolutely awesome.

            http://www.pulsehyper.com.au/phn70.htm

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: AGM Battery Queries

              Hi DT,

              There's only minimal information on that website. What is it that makes the Pulse Hyper "absolutley awesome" compared to other AGMs?

              LFaR.
              [size=1][color=#770000]29Feb12:[/color][color=#777700]12GXLTD Auto, ARB Deluxe Winch bar, WARN 9.5xp Winch, IPF 900XS, Tow, Safari snorkel, Front + Rear Recovery points, ARB OME NC Sports, ATZ-4Rib[/color][color=grey], Silver[/color]. [color=orange][b]MaxTrax[/b][/color], [color=maroon]ScanGuage II[/color], [color=blue]ARB CKMA12[/color], [color=deeppink]UHF: GME TX3440 AE4018K1 UNH047SX[/color], [color=darkgreen]Bushranger Air Jack[/color], [color=green]Staun + ARB Deflators[/color], [color=brown]WindCheetah Roof Rack[/color], [color=green]Foxwing[/color], [color=red]Super Charge MRV70, Redarc BCDC1220[/color], [color=darkblue]ARB 60L fridge[/color], [color=blue]MSA Fridge Dropdown slide[/color], [color=darkyellow]DRIFTA Drawers[/color], [color=gold]TJM Bash Plates[/color], [color=brown]TG150[/color].[/size]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AGM Battery Queries

                -Fully sealed, no leaks, spills, can be mounted in any position
                -OK under bonnet with no heat issues - or in cab (for reasons above)
                -Good for cranking (600+ cold cranking amps)
                -Excellent deep cycling - I had a 1.1A fluoro lamp running off it for 96 hours straight and was still reading 12.2V (This was after charging it with a Ctek at home) It's rated at 100Ah at C20, but perhaps more tellingly at 110Ah at C100, which means over 100 hours, which in turn is great for low drainage applications (like running a fridge) for several days (I've got a compressor Waeco)
                -Dual posts - always handy
                -Not that I've had a chance to test this yet, but they reckon 400+ charge cycles, which you won't get from most 'regular' AGM's or SLA batteries.
                -Very low self-discharge

                And no, I've nothing to do with the company. They caugh my eye when Roothy from 4WD Action bult himself a battery box with a couple of these and I then did some digging around and it came all thumbs up.

                At Autobarn they wanted $449,- for it, but got one from Battery World for $349,-

                I then use an Engel 12V input charger, which I've wired to the Prado, so it'll charge at 14.4V (stepped up from alternator voltage and is current limiting)

                One of these: http://www.engelaustralia.com.au/cgi-bi ... ny=charger

                It's 'only' got 10A charge current, but seems to work very well. An alternator will only charge to around 80% as the voltage isn't high enough. Some D4D Prado owners have flagged up low alternator voltage.

                By all means ask around, but I'm as happy as a pig the proverbial. At first I was also looking into some kind of solar panel system for charging when camping for a few days in one spot, but haven't needed to!

                There's a fair bit more tech info PDF's on their site under 'Support'.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AGM Battery Queries

                  I also use the same setup as above with a standard wet cell for cranking and AGM for aux with rotronics battery management system the results so far is 2 years with the AGM getting 3 days out of my fridge without a drive and running it down to almost flat without a problem the other big benefit seems to be when i was runninga wet cell for the aux it took about 6 hrs driving to recharge it the AGM only takes to
                  Dont list all ya mods, you will only be more upset when i get further

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm planning on using a 100AH Marine aux battery, a Redarc BCDC1240, the manual switching funtion of a Redarc SLI12 so I can link the aux for starting if ever needed.

                    My need is occasional use of fridge and camping misc for weekends away. As I do now I will run the Cetek overnight on each battery once a month.

                    In summary of all the guff written about batteries and charging would I be correct in saying this proposed setup covers all bases and is a sort of ideal arrangement? I drive a new 2012 diesel prado by the way.
                    2012 Kakadu

                    Comment

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