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  • Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

    Here's the scenario...

    A Pulse Hyper gel selad lead acid N70 sized deep cycle battery in a home-made battery box - 100Ah capacity. The charge plug input has a 20A fuse wired into the box. I have wired up an Engel charger to the back of the Prado, which has its inputs hard-wired to the main battery and an 'activation lead' wired into the ignition circuit, so it only turns on the charger when igniton is on - i.e. the motor's running. The Engel charger puts out a slightly stepped up voltage and at no load my $19,- multi-meter has it pumping out 15.05V when the engine's running and no load connected. When I turn the engine (ignition) off the charger goes off, not draining the main battery. So, basically it seems all OK.

    However, when I have my Waeco compressor fridge running off the battery box and the Engel charger plugged into a fused input (20A) on the battery box it blows the fuse every time. The Engel should only put out 10A... What's the hell's going on? Should I just get rid of the fused I wired? Would seem odd that a 10A current would blow a 20A fuse. Have checked all polarities and for shorts, but none there and this is hardly complex wiring?

    Any ideas? Anyone? Please...

  • #2
    Have you metered the waeco to check startup current? Aslo the charger current?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Team Piggy
      Have you metered the waeco to check startup current? Aslo the charger current?
      No I haven't, but the Waeco was already running and as soon as I turn the ignition the fuse blows. I hear you about start up spikes, but in this case that can't be the culprit.

      According to Engel's spec the output is 10A (+/- 0.5A), so unless the unit's faulty (it's brand new...) that can't be it either.

      This is driving me nuts... :?

      Comment


      • #4
        What happens when you run the charger with the fridge off/unplugged?
        Also, if the above works, does the fuse blow if you turn the fridge on after the charger has fired up?

        When you switch the ignition on and hence the engel thingo, there may be some hefty initial inrush current. What does it say in the instructions to fuse the input side with? Assuming your polarities and connections are correct, you may just have an undersized fuse.

        Also is the engel an actual charger? I would be wary running your fridge at the same time as charging the battery, as running the fridge can hold the charger in boost mode which will eventually stuff your battery. The charger will see the fridge and think the battery is asking for charge and the charger will oblige and supply a higher voltage when not required. This will over charge your battery.

        Crammy
        2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
        Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

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        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

          Many thanks for the input Crammy!

          I haven't tried the charger without the fridge plugged in yet... I was just finishing packing up the car for a camping trip when this happened and didn't have the time to start tooling around, but will give that a go today.

          The Engel charger is a 'proper' charger alright - info on it at: http://www.engelaustralia.com.au/cgi-bi ... ny=charger

          The whole idea being that it steps up the voltage to a higher level than what an alternator puts out to ensure full charging.

          Basically, its inputs (bare wires) go direct to the main battery via a fuse, which is just fine and once ignition is on the charger kicks in. According to Engel it should be fine to charge and use a fridge at the same time (obviously the charge current is less when the fridge is running). This is what I've been doing with a Waeco RAPS-36 battery pack for a few years - fridge plugs to battery pack and the battery pack to a 12V outlet from the car, so it charges at the same time.

          In Engel's instructions they've shown the charger output wired directly to a battery with no fuse. However, I just can't figure out why a 10A charger can pop a 20A fuse...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

            The strangest thing...

            I started this all with a 15A fuse, which blew (this is a 10A charger). Then I blew a 20A fuse and after that checked all wiring, polarities etc. Slipped in another 20A fuse and it blew - without the fridge. I was just going to hardwire it to see what happens, but decided to try a 30A fuse first and hey presto - all's well. I've got a 15A cable with a 30A fuse now, which isn't the smartest thing, but I figure the fuse will blow before any cable damage as their ratings have a lot of margin.

            I had the battery box charging for about 10 minutes with the engine running and all cables stayed cool to the touch. I think it must've been a rush current of some sort...

            Now that all's well, I reckon this Engel charger was a bit of a find...! $90,- from Ray's Outdoors - I think they have them priced wrong... :-)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

              You can get fuses for motor start inrush current which can handle a higher load on start up but will still be rated at what ever you need. Perhaps the original fuse was one of them. I would be concerned about putting the bigger fuse in and leaving it there as normally the fuse is sized to protect the wire, not the other things that could be.

              If you are needing a 30 amp fuse to run a 10 amp appliance, you level of protection is dangerous and if for some reason the unit fails and draws all that power, the cable could melt, resulting in a battery explosion at worst and prado going bang with lots of smoke and walking needed for help.

              I would be seeing the agent for information and finding out if the unit is really OK or if it needs replacement.
              07 Prado GXL, D4D manual, silver and a fridge with constantly changing beer levels.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

                I may have to look at these fuses you've mentioned.

                I mentioned earlier that the Engel charger is connected DIRECT to a battery for charging in all of their instructions - i.e. no fuse at all.

                However, I did wire a fuse in the battery box on my own accord across the input for charging, which means there was no 'original' fuse, so to speak. The reason why I spec'd a 15A fuse in the first place was because Engel's spec sheet said the output was 10A (+/- 0.5A). What they failed to mention was the rush current and the documentation was pretty lame all round in any case...

                How to have fun with home electronics... :-)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

                  OK now I am with you. Most electrical wholesalers should have one of those fuses. Unsure what fuse holder they will fit, maybe you will have to work something out there.
                  07 Prado GXL, D4D manual, silver and a fridge with constantly changing beer levels.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

                    Originally posted by Deeptank
                    I may have to look at these fuses you've mentioned.

                    I mentioned earlier that the Engel charger is connected DIRECT to a battery for charging in all of their instructions - i.e. no fuse at all.

                    However, I did wire a fuse in the battery box on my own accord across the input for charging, which means there was no 'original' fuse, so to speak. The reason why I spec'd a 15A fuse in the first place was because Engel's spec sheet said the output was 10A (+/- 0.5A). What they failed to mention was the rush current and the documentation was pretty lame all round in any case...

                    How to have fun with home electronics... :-)
                    Hi Deeptank, I should have posted earlier, I would not bother fusing a DC-DC converter (Engel Charger) output as they are normally protected internally, and yes you have found a nice healthy Inrush current. Glad all is well now.
                    07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Problems charging a 'battery box' - help please

                      Thanks plucker and clifton!

                      When I first built the battery box I decided to fuse all ins and outs individually just to be safe... It's got two marine-grade ciggie lighter outs, bare posts for charging at home and a plug input for charging in the car vis this new Engel charger - all separately fused through a 4-way automotive fuse box I got from SuperCheap. I also added a push-button activated LCD volt-meter, so I know where I'm at, but this isn't fused.

                      Perhaps fusing the charging input was 'overkill', but it's done now and the 30A fuse seems to hold OK, so I reckon I'll leave it be now.

                      What an awesome forum... :-)

                      Comment

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