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View Full Version : Lightforce Blitz 240 HID Conversion build up thread.



mav
27-04-2008, 07:03 PM
Well as the title says this will be my Blitz 240 conversion thread complete with pics. My conversion kit arrived this morning, yes our parcel contractor seems to only deliver to us on Sundays, I should have received it last thursday.

I am well on my way to converting the first 240, I have installed the globe adapter to place the H3 HID globe at the right focal point for the reflector.
I have to wait till tomorrow to get the right cable gland to seal the back of the globe housing. It needs an M25 gland to keep it water tight.

The kit seems to be of reasonable quality and with the required globe adapters it came to $198.00 delivered. There are not too many people doing conversions for the Lightforce lights so I hope that these turn out okay. It is a 55W 5000K kit from an Aussie seller with 12 month warranty on parts.

I will add photos to this thread soon.

AJ
27-04-2008, 07:29 PM
Can't wait to see the write up Mav. I'm interested in the Lighty 240's, and since seeing the pics of the HID's on Team Piggy's rally car, I want to get the conversion done when I get mine.

Cheers,
AJ

MattWhite
27-04-2008, 07:53 PM
I will add photos to this thread soon.

I am literally holding my breathe! Did you choose 5000k for any reason? 6000k is the norm, just curious?

mav
27-04-2008, 07:59 PM
I will add photos to this thread soon.

I am literally holding my breathe! Did you choose 5000k for any reason? 6000k is the norm, just curious?

Yes Matt I wanted 5000 K to match the Fat boy IPF globes I put into the headlights which are also 5000 K.

The higher you go the less the penetration of light. I think 5000 K gives the best overall performance for what I want to achieve.

mav
27-04-2008, 08:06 PM
Okay here are some starter pics of the kit and adapter housing:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HIDKIT.JPG

The Kit as sent by Bushy. The globes have a ceramic base and not plastic as is usual with the cheaper kits on ebay. Bushy readily admits they are not the top of the line kit but they are certainly not bottom of the ladder either. It suites my purpose and the parts and warrantied for 12 months.



http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/Ballast.JPG

Close up of the ballast.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Adapter.JPG

Required H3 adapter plate, comes with the kit.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/Adapter_Installed.JPG

Adapter installed front elevation.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Adapter_Side.JPG

Adapter installed in lightforce housing, side elevation

Crammy
27-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Lookin good mav, you'll send pine gap into a frenzy when you drive past there at night!

Piggy
27-04-2008, 09:09 PM
That looks like the generic EBAY HID kit, there is dozens the same and just rebadged with different stickers.

They work fine. I have 1.5 years on one of mine now, with not one issue.

mav
27-04-2008, 09:42 PM
That looks like the generic EBAY HID kit, there is dozens the same and just rebadged with different stickers.

They work fine. I have 1.5 years on one of mine now, with not one issue.

Lets face it, most of these kits if not all orginate in China. I would expect that a good many businesses rebadge the same generic kit.

I had a quick look on ebay for this particular kit but it is not on there at the moment, however they are being sold on Amazon.com for around US$150.

All told I am happy with the price and service from Bushy.

mav
28-04-2008, 04:06 PM
Well I have completed the conversion on one of the spotties and I will do the other one tomorrow. It is a bit more fiddly than I expected but once it is done who cares right?

I did not follow Bushy's instruction to the letter as I found that using the cable gland was a major pain in the butt trying to get it to fit etc so I simply used the foam rubber packing that the HID globes come with and used some inert silicon to make it water tight.

I only did one today as I want to go out and take some comparison shots tonight I will use a bit of cardboard to cover each spottie in turn.

I tested the one I installed and it came on and functioned normally, finding a place to mount the ballast was a right pain but I managed to come up with a workable solution. The problem is the HT lead is pretty short and certainly not long enough to mount the ballast up in the engine bay. I am pretty confident that the connections are water tight and I will re-inforce that with some silcon compound to make very sure.

Anyway I will post some photos later tonight.

damonat
28-04-2008, 05:04 PM
finding a place to mount the ballast was a right pian but I managed to come up with a workable solution. The problem is the HT lead is pretty short and certainly not long enough to mount the ballast up in the engine bay. I am pretty confident that the connections are water tight and I will re-inforce that with some silcon compound to make very sure.

Anyway I will post some photos later tonight.

this is the thought i had and have so far not done the conversion
because of the ballast placement.
be good to see where you mounted the ballasts, so i can get more ideas.

mav
28-04-2008, 07:49 PM
finding a place to mount the ballast was a right pian but I managed to come up with a workable solution. The problem is the HT lead is pretty short and certainly not long enough to mount the ballast up in the engine bay. I am pretty confident that the connections are water tight and I will re-inforce that with some silcon compound to make very sure.

Anyway I will post some photos later tonight.

this is the thought i had and have so far not done the conversion
because of the ballast placement.
be good to see where you mounted the ballasts, so i can get more ideas.

I will post some photos of the fit out tomorrow mate, that should give you some ideas.

mav
28-04-2008, 08:04 PM
Well I just went out to see if there would be any discernable difference between my old halogen lightforce and new HID lightforce. Can you say OMFG!!!!!. :shock: :shock: :D

Here are some comparison photos, they are the best I could do I covered one spottie up at a time to take the individual performance shots. Please note that the HID is a straight pencil beam spottie and the halogen has a spread spot filter attached to it which is the reason why you will see a bit more side light on the halogen.

Okay the first shot is the halogen by itself:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp2.JPG

Now the HID by itself:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp3.JPG

The next is both the HID and halogen together:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp.JPG

Now a front on shot to show the colour temp difference, the HID is rated at 5000K and I am guessing that the halogen is down nearer to 3000K.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp4.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp5.JPG

So then I went for a drive to find a different location to run the similar test. Here are the results:

The first three shots are with both spotties on, I have just zoomed the photo a bit more in the last two shots, you can clearly see the HID white light from the yellow light of the halogen.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp8.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp6.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp7.JPG

The next shot is with the halogen only again it has a spread spot filter on it, sorry for the blurriness but I forgot to take my tripod.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp10.JPG

The last one is with the HID only, again sorry for the blurriness.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp9.JPG

Tomorrow I will complete the upgrade of the other spottie and then I will head out and take some more comparison shots at the same locations.

I am so impressed with the HID upgrade of the one spottie it really is chalk and cheese. I took a photo of the two beams against my fence when I got home here it is:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp11.JPG

bitdist
28-04-2008, 08:05 PM
The ballasts are waterproof and the connections are too. A lot of people used to just mount them in the bullbar, when we used to sell them a few years ago and some of them would sit in a river with the lights on with no problems. I would not put silicon on the connections if it were me.

I used to have 100's of 1m extension cables so that you could mount the ballasts under the bonnet, but not sure if I still have any. After them sitting around for a year or 2 I might have "cleaned up" If anyone is interested I will have a look around and see if you like. You are welcome to them
You cannot go much longer than a metre or so as then sometimes the light will not come on every time.

cheers

Damien Parker
28-04-2008, 08:25 PM
I dont know, maybe its just me. But i am not seeing a major difference other than the colour of the light, and perhaps an aiming variable.

I guess i would need to see them in the flesh to be convinced of the value.

bitdist
28-04-2008, 08:32 PM
Maybe you are not looking in the distance.....
Look at the tree(bush) in the HID one. It is very brightly lit up. In the standard one you cannot even see there is a tree there

Chippy
28-04-2008, 08:45 PM
Look carefully and you can even see the BBQ'd crow that has fallen from the tree and is laying on the ground beneath it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry .. couldn't help myself :roll: :roll:

Great write-up Mav.

Cheers
Chippy

damonat
28-04-2008, 08:56 PM
I dont know, maybe its just me. But i am not seeing a major difference other than the colour of the light, and perhaps an aiming variable.

I guess i would need to see them in the flesh to be convinced of the value.

if we ever do a night or evening run, check my headlights against yours.
the HID's are a cleaning illumination.
after having the headlights done, there is a far difference.
you just don't realise until you have tried them.

mav
28-04-2008, 09:23 PM
I dont know, maybe its just me. But i am not seeing a major difference other than the colour of the light, and perhaps an aiming variable.

I guess i would need to see them in the flesh to be convinced of the value.

Damo there was a huge difference believe me, I think I had the HID aimed a fraction too high also I have added some more photos to show it with better effect I think.

Tomorrow I will remember to take my tripod with me, trying to stand still braced against a vibrating diesel is not exactly the best solution. :oops:

mav
28-04-2008, 09:40 PM
One thing I forgot to mention was that when I was standing in front of the spotties I noticed that the HID ran a lot cooler than the halogen, which is what you would expect being as it is 45 watts less in power rating.

mav
28-04-2008, 09:42 PM
Look carefully and you can even see the BBQ'd crow that has fallen from the tree and is laying on the ground beneath it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry .. couldn't help myself :roll: :roll:

Great write-up Mav.

Cheers
Chippy

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks Chippy, the funny thing is just as I pulled up at the second location a big old red roo jumped into the middle of the road and I could swear that I heard him spitting on his fur to put it out. :lol: :lol:

Grandeman
29-04-2008, 05:51 AM
Nice work Mav

It is true that HID makes such a difference, you really have to experience it. Once you have tried them you never look back.

The only downside with HID spotties is the warm-up time if you are constantly dipping them for highway use. Other than that, they are phenomenal! :D

joey
29-04-2008, 10:56 AM
looks the goods mav...
will be ordering a set from your mate,,,

clifton
29-04-2008, 11:45 AM
I dont know, maybe its just me. But i am not seeing a major difference other than the colour of the light, and perhaps an aiming variable.

I guess i would need to see them in the flesh to be convinced of the value.

My IPF HID,s are great, just as the guy's have described, they are superior to Halogen, plus you get the added benefit of much lower wattage lamps which as Mav has indicated and I found with bench testing run cooler which is good for longevity of the lamp housing.
When you check them out an important point is to compare the colour temperature ranges available and select one you are happy with as my wife finds the 7000k blue a bit hard on her eyes, where I have no problems.
Didn't mean to hijack your thread Mav. you are doing a great job. :) :) :)

mav
29-04-2008, 08:17 PM
I went back out tonight and reshot the comparison photo in order to make a fairer comparison. Either way I am still impressed with the light output of the HIDs, they are well worth the upgrade imho.

You can plainly see the HIDs outperform even the HID and halogen combo.

First is the HID/halogen from last night:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp8.JPG

And now both spotties as HIDs, remember one is a pencil beam the other has a spread/pencil filter on it the same as last night:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/new_HID_Comp002_1.JPG


Here is a comparison shot of the front of the Prado from last night and tonight.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/HID_Comp4.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1272772/Both_HIDs8a.JPG

D4D-GXL
29-04-2008, 08:23 PM
Crikies - thats awesome. Daylight and night-time.
What next? That is the question isnt it.

Well done. I want a set. :o :o

Piggy
29-04-2008, 08:56 PM
Mav, to compare fully you need to take photo's the same time, the halogen one is 1 second and the HID 2 seconds which will throw out your final comparisons.

Try setting the camera to shutter priority if your using AUTO.

Issue with the pics you have taken is the HID is twice as bright due to the exposure time.

Chuck
29-04-2008, 08:59 PM
No, that is not a stuck pixel it is an insect. :lol:


I thought it was another of Chippy's crows falling from the sky :lol: :lol:

mav
29-04-2008, 09:07 PM
Mav, to compare fully you need to take photo's the same time, the halogen one is 1 second and the HID 2 seconds which will throw out your final comparisons.

Try setting the camera to shutter priority if your using AUTO.

Issue with the pics you have taken is the HID is twice as bright due to the exposure time.

Yes true that shot did have a longer exposure time, I have replaced it with another that is as close as I can get to the EXIF data from last night.

I was not going to use this shot due to all the bugs zipping around leaving bug trails.

This one is at 1.3 which is as close as I can get from tonights shoot. I will try to get the same road tomorrow and reshoot the comparison photos with the exact same EXIF data.

Piggy
29-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Set your camera to shutter priority or manual and wind your Speed to suit.

mav
29-04-2008, 09:50 PM
Set your camera to shutter priority or manual and wind your Speed to suit.

Most of my shooting is done in AP mode, like I said I will endeavour to get the correct road tomorrow night and reshoot. The only reason I did not shoot with the same settings tonight is due to me not remembering what they were. I was also kind of half expecting to be king hit from behind so I just wanted to get out take the shot, get back in the car and spend as little time as possible in that area.

MattWhite
29-04-2008, 09:52 PM
yep, I'm sold. Top work Mav.

jeff s
29-04-2008, 10:48 PM
Mentioned before was the temperature difference between Hal and HID.
There is a reason they run cooler.

the thing with Halogen and more so with incandescent globes is that they produce alot of light we cannot as humans see. Like infra red, heat, ultra violet, a wide range of the light spectrum is produced.
HID's produce light using a much thinner range of the spectrum.
More in your white and blue light range. So by narrowing the spectrum of light to light that is actually visible to humans means that watts are not wasted.
Hence the lower watts and what appears to us as more light and a cooler light.


[Steps off pedestal to let normal programming continue.]

PS. they work well dont they.

mav
30-04-2008, 08:41 PM
I have reshot the comparison photo on page 2 of this thread in order to make a fairer comparison. The HIDs still outperform the halogen/HID combo. :D

bushy555
01-05-2008, 05:49 PM
Hi All,

Bushy here. Paul kindly mentioned this forum and thought I'd just jump in.
Any questions please don't hesitate to ask. I *love* playing with this stuff.
I really only started doing this conversion stuff as a hobby... and it really is only a sideline hobby thing that i do to fill in time. I also really don't make a lot out of it, since I try to sell eveyrthing as cheaply as possible.
I got into doing this from watching a hilux with real Lightforce HID's back in May 2002 at Kandos, and thought about trying to modify my Blitz's.
Two years later at the end of 2004, I successfully chucked in a 50w kit into my Blitz's and one completely blew away two real Lightforce 35w HID's.
Since then I reckon I have forked out around close to $7,500 into HID stuff now --- both into kits, getting these adpaters cut (this is version 4), various XGT's and Blitzs to convert for custom orders and ... ebay fee's! :D

Have heaps of info and a coupla pics as well as some vids on my little dopey web site.
www.hid.isclever.com (http://www.hid.isclever.com) (Is a free web service so it might take a few shots at getting it to come up).

Temperature wise: a 130w halogen H3 bulb as used in IPF's run at around 590 to 600 degrees.
I can not get a 55 watt H3 metal halide (HID) bulb to put out any more than 135 degrees.

...so what I did, was to chuck seven HID bulbs into a Blitz light. Yep. Seven. And after around ten minutes it finally started to melt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlbAk9MEFno
Why? no idea. Bit of a funny joke to see what would happen....


As for placement of the ballasts, I have previously made up a few 750mm extension leads with the correct plug/sockets on them., so that the ballasts can be mounted further up inside the engine bay. I have finally found that Narva sell these individually and one of these days I may make up heaps more. I am sure that there is a half-decent market for these items.
After heaps of testing with them, I could not find any problems with the bulb from firing up with using these extension leads.
Im sure that there would be some point of length where the bulb fails to fire up - but what that is, I have no idea.

My setups:
Four 35w 6000k Blitz's on the front of my bullbar on my Patrol ute.
Two 35w 6000k IPF900's on my brumby and two 35w 6000k IPF800's on my Bushrangie which are utter rubbish. The 170 strikers or, heck, even old crappy 20 year old bull lights will easily outperform the rectangular IPF800's. (Big apologies in advance to those who own these lights and think that they are sweet... They are. But there is better out there.)

Enough already. I could go on but had better stop now. Otherwise I will get kicked.

Apologies also for being on a Prado forum, and not owning one.


Oops, forgot. To go better and brighter, Philips make a DL50 D2S bulb.
These bulbs put out 5300 lumens, where as normal chinese/korean/japanese 55w bulbs put out around the 4300 to 4500 lumens. These D2S bulbs can be used with any standard 55w ballast. THe problem? sourcing these bulbs. Last time I looked they were around the US$175.00 mark each.

/dave.
bushy555 at gmail.com / djmaunder at rockdale.com.au

Grandeman
01-05-2008, 08:29 PM
Hey there Dave

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info.

I have heard that the Lightforce exhibit a really bright "halo" from behind the light - it is apparent from one of the photos on your site.

Does this create a problem when you're driving? What I'm trying to ask is whether it is as much of a distraction as it appears from the pics?

BTW, that lumen output figure is absolutely humongous!!!

MattWhite
02-05-2008, 07:52 AM
I've seen similar reports Grandeman ages ago but I cant see the back of my lights on the soveriegn bar anyway.
Matt

mav
02-05-2008, 07:57 AM
Hey there Dave

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info.

I have heard that the Lightforce exhibit a really bright "halo" from behind the light - it is apparent from one of the photos on your site.

Does this create a problem when you're driving? What I'm trying to ask is whether it is as much of a distraction as it appears from the pics?

BTW, that lumen output figure is absolutely humongous!!!

I have not experienced this with my HID upgrade of the 240's.

bushy555
02-05-2008, 05:39 PM
I have heard that the Lightforce exhibit a really bright "halo" from behind the light - it is apparent from one of the photos on your site.

Does this create a problem when you're driving? What I'm trying to ask is whether it is as much of a distraction as it appears from the pics?


With covers on, yes it can. THe plastic clips that hold the lens on (whether it be spread or clear) can be lit up. I covered these with bits of black electrical tape years ago. Once they weathered off, I just grabbed some black paint and painted the clips on the covers.
Without the covers on, if you look hard enough then I guess there is a bit of a halo, but nothing to get concerned about. I've never really noticed.
I guess it also depends a bit on if the lights are mounted normally on your bar, or if your looking directly at them if they happen to be sitting on top of your bar (which can be illegal in some circumstances --- all depending on various things. Like if you get caught or not)



cheers
dave

clifton
14-05-2008, 06:59 PM
Hi Pradogxlv6,

I Like that Mr Mod. keep up the good work :) :) :)

samo
15-05-2008, 02:39 AM
an I for an I hey matt :lol:

bushy555
15-05-2008, 06:06 AM
Welcome to the forum
ta.


If I buy a 55w 5000w kit from your ebay advert, are they relatively easy to install and get running on my 240XGT's ?
Yes. Dead set easy.


Also, considering you are a business, are you able to better the $198 price for this kit, for our many Prado driving forum members ?

I'm hardly what you'd call a business. I only do this as a hobby on the side, no my lounge room floor, to fill in time in my useless and boring life. I often go looking on eBay to see if anyone is selling their lives, but noone ever does.
I can possibly go $180, but bear in mind I'm making like $10.00 each then (depending on postage costs, which average around the $12), and it is hardly worth the effort. (How many peeps would be bothered to do this?)

The $198 is way too cheap for what they are. Remember that the real Lightforce 240 HID's 35w are $950.00 ish each, and their newer 50w HID's (at $1150 each) were taken off the market coz they kept blowing up. And then consider other dudes who do similar mods are asking upwards of $350.00 for a simple 35w kit, let alone looking at the newer brighter 55 watters. One bloke on ebay there is selling his 35w "XGT HID kit" which when you read the fine print doesn't fit XGT's goes for $400 -ish. Heh! I imagine Repco would sell these for around $500 plus...

so... there it is. In print. So now I'll have to agree to the above. :D


dave.





edit: I also want to go exploring the world of these newly released twin arc metal halide HID bulbs. Have two glass bulb bits side by side on the single bulb base, where two arcs are produced. Each individial bulb base will then have four wires coming from it, each pair going to a ballast. If these come in a 55w version, then, say for a single XGT's/Blitz you can have a 110w HID. Probably getting close to 7000 to 7500 lumens of light output.
Some dude in melbourne installs these for $1100 + fitting + freight + this + that, and would probably end up close to $1300 on to your supplied XGT's. Am also half considering looking into a pair of 240v 500w HID lights and running them from off my invertor. Depending on price, is kinda worth looking into for serious light. Dunno about durability... :wink:

Piggy
24-05-2008, 07:55 PM
Sure your not mistaking the H4-4 twin HID bulbs? They have two glass tubes side by side.

One for low beam and one for hi beam.

Because of the different locations of the bulbs it denotes hi/lo. I would think in a spotlight it would create a massive throw off from the bulb position if both were illuminated at once.

bushy555
21-06-2008, 08:32 PM
Sure your not mistaking the H4-4 twin HID bulbs? They have two glass tubes side by side.

One for low beam and one for hi beam.

Yep, you are correct. Thanks. Looks like I was jumping the gun.
Wonder why some manufacturer doesn't make a twin tube HID bulb?
And why hasn't any manufacturer made a H2 HID bulb?
(Hella 1000 and 1/4 of all Cibie's use these bulbs)