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07-04-2008, 04:46 AM
Dear Prado owners
I am a member of Pradopoint for more than 20 (if I remember well) months from Greece and I've watching almost all topics and posts which I really find them very useful.

It is the first time I am posting a topic since so far, I cannot find a reply. Probably some other Prado owners have already or will face this problem.

Last year I ordered an Elmscan for my OBD plug in order to use it with Centrafuse which I have installed in my carpc. No matter what we tried,it didn't work. When we tried to a friend's Kia Sorento Diesel it worked properly. After 2 months my friend also bought a Scangauge II for his vehicle and when we tried on my Prado, it didn’t work.

Now,I am preparing a new CarPC so I thought before starting searching all companies around the world with OBD scanners & software, to ask the members of Pradopoint, if someone has ever faced the same problem. Does someone knows if my Prado (2004 model D4D) is OBD compliant and if yes,which protocol?

I couldn't load a photo of my OBD plug (can the administrator help me?) but it works properly according to my electrician and Toyota’s local service agent.


I hope someone has a reply

Dagios

Chippy
07-04-2008, 06:52 AM
Hi Dagios

As far as I know the Prados changed OBD protocols around 2004. I have a 2003 V6 and it runs the old protocol. The ScanGuage II that the lads use over here does NOT work with my car .... and I haven't found anything that does.

A lot of the guys have written stuff in the ScanGuage thread, about its operation and features, but there's not a lot of specifics about when the protocols changed and what the change actually means for the layman.

I sent emails, to suppliers, about whether the SGII would work with my car and was told it certainly would not.

.... and there's no way around it. If you have the old protocol - you're stuck with it.


I suppose that presents another question ..... How do you know which protocol you have ??

Sorry ... don't know the answer to that one. Its way beyond my tiny thimble of knowledge :lol: :lol:


Cheers
Chippy

08-04-2008, 07:11 AM
Hi Chippy

Thanx for the reply. Can you do me a small favor? Can you check if the connectors at your vehicles plug are in positions 4-7-9-12-13-16?

I have also asked various companies even from the States.One of them, the company at www.scantool.net (http://www.scantool.net) from the States are 100% sure that my vehicle is OBDII compilant and that their software and interface will work properly. But I cannot risk paying double posting costs back to the States.

A greek company is proposing to check the system at: http://www.plxdevices.net/ and http://www.gtechpro.net

Other solutions would be : http://www.dashdyno.net/
http://www.obdspy.co.uk/
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
http://www.dashhawk.eu/
http://www.dashdaq.com

I would like to know if yourself (or someone in this forum) have tried something similar. I am even looking for "building up" my own OBD cable by changing places to the connectors and see if the interfaces and scangauge will work.The existing connectors should provide some data and I am thinking how I will proccess these datas.

As for the protocol, I think that my "indipendent" electrician can see at his Diagnostics machine the protocol of my Prado. I think it worths a try.

Cheers
Dagios

HGMonaro
08-04-2008, 11:08 AM
Hi Dagios,

I can't help regarding your ODB enquiry, but from your signiture you have suspension from ATS in Geelong on your Greek chariot... is that correct?

Nige.

joedan
08-04-2008, 08:01 PM
This site look interesting...

http://www.dtdauto.com/efiscanintro_e.htm

It mentions that "Some Toyota vehicles still are OBD-I" and that
"connector is 16 pins like OBD-II connector standard", all very confusing.

So even if you have an OBD-II connector you may have an older communications protocol.

MattWhite
08-04-2008, 10:35 PM
The americans are the ones that started the whole OBD system and the theory was that in the states you could get any scan tool and hook it to any car and it would communicate with it. The down side is that there is no binding agreement for places outside of the US so while we may have the same connector, probably to save money, there certainly is no guarantee that it will all integrate.

I am far from an expert on computer communication but I know at work our Snap-on scanner communicates with almost every car on the road and does just about every vehicle system we could want to look into. The thing is, the one connector that goes to the 16pin connector needs a key to complete the circuit. This plastic key pushes into the side of the connector and basicly shuffles the signals around to something the scanner will recognise.

The other one is the CAN-BUS system( Central area network- Bi-nary Universal Signal) which is two wires hooking all the different modules together. Instead of having a cobweb of wires linking all the systems together, these two wires go from one to the next. Eg, a wheel slip signal from the ABS module may go through the air-bag module, then the Body control module before it gets to the PCM to tell it to close the throttle a bit or cut some injectors etc.

Basically, there is not a world wide protocol for vehicle electronics unfortunately. Where and when what models change I cant help sorry.

I'm not sure how this helps the original question but just throwing some information on the fire. Also, I will be honest, I learn from fixing new faults, and without being smart, I would go 6 months and not fix an in-depth problem on a Toyota but if you want to know why a warning light is coming on on your Commodore or why your Magna won't rev, I'm your man. :roll:

09-04-2008, 07:48 AM
(Hi HGMonaro
It's true, I live in Greece, I love my Prado,so much that I paid taxes and trans costs for getting ATS suspension.Unfortunately in Greece a 4x4 has to be totally different designed and prepared than the Australian ones.)

Hi all participants
As for the discussion, during these 48 hours I opened this topic, I paralelly communicate as you can understand, with various companies all around the world.

Some of them are pretty sure that despite the fact connector in position 5 is missing, the vehicle's protocol is ISO but others are pretty sure that an interface wouldn't work. I hereby attach 2 totally different answers that arrived almost at the same time:
"Dear Nick,
I believe it is safe to say that your Toyota Land Cruiser is using the ISO protocol. The ElmScan ISO USB on the following page should work with your vehicle, however it will only work with other vehicles using the ISO protocol (and OBDII compliant):
http://www.scantool.net/products/produc ... d0530c5879 (http://www.scantool.net/products/product_info.php?cPath=8_1&products_id=41&osCsid=1e5073287d042a766eeef2d0530c5879)

If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.

Sincerely,"

The negative one:
"Hello Mr. Nick

thank you for your interest.

As far as we can see on your attached photo of the connector there is no contact pin for signal ground in this connector (pin 5). There is only a pin for car ground (pin 4). There is however a pin 7 for signal plus but we doubt this car will have a compliant OBD-2 ECU.

So if you try our ElmCan interface there must be made a line for signal ground pin 5 otherwise it will not work. If you live near our represantative in Greece, Mr. Karakatsanidis, you may check it with him. He gets a copy of this message. Generally cars with Diesel engine does not provide as much data as cars with petrol engine.

Regards
CarCode Mueller
Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Mueller
Schulze-Delitzsch-Str. 7, DE-30938 Burgwedel
Voice: +49 5139 896834, Fax: +49 5139 896835 info@obd-2.de"

Two last questions: has anyone the slightest idea what is going on? Is pin 5 finally necessary or not?

My 2 last solutions is to ask Toyota Europe HQ (probably they won't answer) and starting trying everything that exists in the Greek market (I am not willing to spend money and time ordering from the States or other European market. I am let's say sure that my Prado IS NOT OBD COMPILANT as my friend's scangauge didn't work.

The last hope is www.odb-2.de (http://www.odb-2.de) whose owner seems to be a very helpful and expert guy. As soon as I have any news I will post them to all you guys.

Wish me luck to my experiments

Dagios

MattWhite
11-04-2008, 01:57 PM
I have done some research into it. In Australia, we do have a lot of OBD2 compliant cars but that is not the system by which they are tested. Our standards are European and as of Jan 1 2005 every new model had to meet the current standards. From what I can find out the communication standards are the same. What laws your country had in 2004 are hard for me to find out though. For example, California adopted OBD2 in 1996 yet when they exported the Ford Taurus to Aus it was downgraded to OBD1 compliance because that was good enough for our laws and it was cheaper.
I'll give you the pin allocation for the OBD2 connectors that we see and if its any use to you then good.

1- Manufacturers discretion
2- Bus line + SAE J1850
3- Man. Disc
4- Chassis Ground
5- Signal ground
6- Can Bus high
7- K line International Standards Network 9141-2
8- Man. Disc
9- Man. Disc
10- Bus Line+ SAEJ1850
11- Man. Disc.
12- Man. Disc.
13- Man Disc.
14- Can Bus low
15- L line ISO 9141-2
16- Battery Positive

When Australia went Euro 3 the cars had to have much more self monitoring so I would say that would be why the Scan gauge doesn't work with the early Prados. Like I said, my job is more looking at how each component works rather than how the system communicates externally. Anyway, if you can get some information out of this, good but other than the International standards pins I can't tell you what standards or pins your vehicle has. Sorry.

Matt

12-04-2008, 05:29 AM
Hi Mattwhite

Can you please check and tell me in which positions are the connectors in your Prado's plug? The connectors in my vehicle's plug are in positions 4-7-9-12-13 & 16. Are in the same positions as yours?

(I would appreciate if any other member especially D4D owner reply in the same question)

Cheers
Dagios

any120
28-06-2008, 08:39 PM
Hi diagos,
I have a 2008 D4D and there are connections on all pins except for the following

1
2
3
8
10
11

I'm trying to do the same thing with my car (2008 D4D) and was wondering if you have had any success? I purchased a cheap and nasty OBDII to USB unit that has the ELM327 chip. Centrafuse detects the unit and even establishes a connection but no data comes through. When I use the software that came with the elm unit it also makes a connection at the physical level but comes up with an error message saying that it cannot detect the protocol.

I have been trying all sorts of searches on the web to find out what protocol the Prado uses, I even have the latest factory repair manual on cd but no luck so far. Through a process of elimination (comparing required pins for the various protocols) I've narrowed it down to ISO9141, ISO14230 or ISO15765 as these are the only ones where pins 2 and 10 are optional.

06-08-2008, 05:08 AM
Hi Any120
Sorry for not replying earlier but I was away.
I do not want to disappoint you but so far,nothing came up. I had tried almost everything I could get but so far...nothing.
The only hope I have,is a guy who is the "guru" in OBDs from another town who is going to visit my city for vacation. He told me that he can make a totally new "protocol" of communication with ELMSCAN (if I remember well) with my CarPC and get all available info "real-time".
He was so sure...but until I see it working...
I promise I will keep the forum informed.
Regards
Dagios

Piggy
06-08-2008, 08:58 AM
Please place your location in your profile.