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Robbo
23-01-2008, 09:38 PM
Can anyone tell me what voltage they get across the battery terminals when the engine is running. I am only getting about 13.5 volts which I think is on the low side. My 100 series cruiser used to get up to 14.5 volts.

samo
23-01-2008, 09:47 PM
i dont have the d4d but when engine is idling i get 14.2 volts

Robbo
23-01-2008, 10:03 PM
i dont have the d4d but when engine is idling i get 14.2 volts

Thanks Samo,

I thought it was a bit low

samo
23-01-2008, 10:07 PM
take ya beloved back to toymota and see what they can do. cheers samo

xvprado
23-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...what an interesting subject
I have been investigating this for a little bit, you may have seen an earlier thread where I sought some comparisons
The output voltage on the D4D alternator is governed
Mine will do 13.5 - 13.94v when motor is cold, but if it is warmed up I cant ever get better than 13.4 and most of the time 13.2. The reason for my investigations has been because my 2 battery isolator relays trip at 13.4, so it causes me some angst if I stop for a half hour, the relays wont kick across because of insufficient voltage
Tojo have had a good look at my alternator and they are adamant that it is within spec :roll: I ask what "spec" is they say...just like that there (my Prado)
The issue is upsetting some people around the place with Prado's and "lux's, there is a trail of stuffed batteries starting to form

I'll be doing some more talking in the next week or so gathering info from industry experts, my view is that goverining back the alternator is a real good way to kill batteries and Tojo should/could and maybe will take responsibility for changing tried and true industry specs to suit themselves...watch this space :D

Piggy
23-01-2008, 10:22 PM
Maybe the battery is fully charged? Which in turn will command the regulator/alternator to not pump out as many volts as a battery that needs charging?

Have you tried it with lights on, etc?

xvprado
23-01-2008, 10:31 PM
Maybe the battery is fully charged? Which in turn will command the regulator/alternator to not pump out as many volts as a battery that needs charging?

Have you tried it with lights on, etc?

Yeah done a lot of fiddling TP, including running all lights, high beam, spotties, winch etc, the thing is designed to throttle back alledgedly to protect the electronics

Robbo
24-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Very interesting!! I will be keen to hear what you come up with. Thanks for your help.






Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...what an interesting subject
I have been investigating this for a little bit, you may have seen an earlier thread where I sought some comparisons
The output voltage on the D4D alternator is governed
Mine will do 13.5 - 13.94v when motor is cold, but if it is warmed up I cant ever get better than 13.4 and most of the time 13.2. The reason for my investigations has been because my 2 battery isolator relays trip at 13.4, so it causes me some angst if I stop for a half hour, the relays wont kick across because of insufficient voltage
Tojo have had a good look at my alternator and they are adamant that it is within spec :roll: I ask what "spec" is they say...just like that there (my Prado)
The issue is upsetting some people around the place with Prado's and "lux's, there is a trail of stuffed batteries starting to form

I'll be doing some more talking in the next week or so gathering info from industry experts, my view is that goverining back the alternator is a real good way to kill batteries and Tojo should/could and maybe will take responsibility for changing tried and true industry specs to suit themselves...watch this space :D

MTpockets
24-01-2008, 01:02 PM
Not sure if the alternator itself is governed, but I know the alternator is is controlled by the ECU.
Below is the update from Redarc battery isolators where they actually had to drop the rating so it could work with these new alternators.
http://www.sidewinder.com.au/_wp_generated/wp7f46e92f.jpg

Hope this helps.
cheers
Les

Signature035
24-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Yep,

This is true, I had the Redarc in my 100 Series replace for this exact reason early last year. Had the new one removed from the 100 Series and installed in the Prado and have had no problems, at idle my TD sits at around 13.85.

Robbo
01-02-2008, 08:45 PM
I took mine to an auto elec today. He said its the lowest voltage he has seen on a modern car. We isolated all accessories etc and still only got 13.5 volts. He then rang the service guys at toyota who said the charging voltage should be 14.2 to 14.5 volts and suggested I should bring it in. The service guy also said that they had a Prado in today with the same problem. Hmmmm interesting! Mine is booked in for next week. I will let you know what transpires.
Cheers
Andrew





Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...what an interesting subject
I have been investigating this for a little bit, you may have seen an earlier thread where I sought some comparisons
The output voltage on the D4D alternator is governed
Mine will do 13.5 - 13.94v when motor is cold, but if it is warmed up I cant ever get better than 13.4 and most of the time 13.2. The reason for my investigations has been because my 2 battery isolator relays trip at 13.4, so it causes me some angst if I stop for a half hour, the relays wont kick across because of insufficient voltage
Tojo have had a good look at my alternator and they are adamant that it is within spec :roll: I ask what "spec" is they say...just like that there (my Prado)
The issue is upsetting some people around the place with Prado's and "lux's, there is a trail of stuffed batteries starting to form

I'll be doing some more talking in the next week or so gathering info from industry experts, my view is that goverining back the alternator is a real good way to kill batteries and Tojo should/could and maybe will take responsibility for changing tried and true industry specs to suit themselves...watch this space :D

PAL001
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Boys,
Any update on this issue, how did you go with Toyota.

Peter

Robbo
10-02-2008, 06:20 PM
Hi Peter,
I was supposed to take mine last week but had to postpone. It is booked in next Thursday. I will post the result.

Cheers Andrew






Boys,
Any update on this issue, how did you go with Toyota.

Peter

Robbo
14-02-2008, 06:28 PM
Well Chaps,

Had it back to the dealer today. They said that it is charging to about 13.6 and that is ok. He also said that all the latest cars charge to about that range. I am not convinced and have not finished. I have other avenues to pursue.

Stay tuned

Chippy
14-02-2008, 08:50 PM
I have heard the same in a thread or two here on PP (but I can't find it back again :oops: ) ... that the new setups don't charge at the same rate .. and that Redarc has changed the settings in their isolators to kick in earlier.

Punters installing the older Redarcs into their new trucks were finding that the isolator didn't kick in and start charging the aux battery.

Cheers
Chippy

plucker
14-02-2008, 10:21 PM
I have heard the same in a thread or two here on PP (but I can't find it back again :oops: ) ... that the new setups don't charge at the same rate .. and that Redarc has changed the settings in their isolators to kick in earlier.


Page 1 Mate

Chippy
14-02-2008, 10:28 PM
That's were I've seen it :oops: I must have been having a "Man look" :lol:

I knew it was around here somewhere :lol: :lol:

Thanks Plucker :D :roll:

Cheers
Chippy

BIG BRUCE
16-02-2008, 10:57 PM
The folllowing are usual flooded cell lead acid characteristics :
The following is common for lead-acid batteries:

Quiescent (open-circuit) voltage at full charge: 12.6 V
Unloading-end: 11.8 V (min discharge point)
Charge with 13.2-14.4 V (some times called trickle charge)
Gassing voltage: 14.4 V (don't charge continuously at this voltage )
Continuous-preservation charge with max. 13.2 V
After full charge the terminal voltage will drop quickly to 13.2 V and then slowly to 12.6 V.
Conventional altenator regulators have what amounts to boost charge (about 14.2-5 v) the current limited by stator saturation ,as the differential voltage between the battery and altenator gets less the voltage drops to about 13.5-13.8 v .
An average start only discharges a battery by about 10% so it doesn't take long to recharge . The boost charge system is a carry over from old relay type regs and is nt necessary to correctly charge a battery ,in fact the opposite could be true . All the above is also seen in the current generation of processor controlled solar regs .

16-02-2008, 11:28 PM
Great info bruce .... did you eat a manual :?: :lol:

very detailed , sent you PM too mate .

billy

BIG BRUCE
17-02-2008, 09:26 PM
Nah ! billys just dug it from the deep recesses of my memory . Unfortunate but I get paid to remember technical bumf like ,so that contractors who work for me do the right thing , though usually of wireless telephony type (34 years).
Been known to read just about any type of technical manual ,just like to know how things work I suppose ...................also not easily fooled by people who do work for me .

Johnk
25-02-2008, 10:06 PM
Hi All,

My D4D also appears to limit the voltage to 13.4 volts which like other PP members is causing me issues.

I have a 120 A/Hr deep cycle battery in the engine bay as an auxiliary (runs the Engel in car) and an 80 A/Hr battery in my off road camper. Between the main start battery and the auxiliary is a Redac controller.

What I have found is the deep cycle auxiliary battery, and camper battery (if the camper is attached), are only being charged to 13.4 volts even after driving all day.

Hence both batteries are not being fully charged – around 14.2 volts. This means I am starting my camping holiday with depleted batteries.

Fortunately I have solar panels with a smart solar charger which lift the batteries to their required voltage but this normally takes all day charging at around 5 to 6 amps. The solar charger bulk charges the batteries till the voltage reaches 14.2 volts, then switches to absorption charge till the batteries reach 14.4 volts then switches to float charge (around 13.8 volts). The main battery is isolated by the Redarc.

I like Robbo plan to talk to Toyota and ask for an explanation. At $250 and $200 for the auxiliary and camper batteries I am not keen to have their life shortened. :evil: :evil:

JK

Addy
26-02-2008, 08:53 AM
Johnk,

14.2 volts fully charged :shock:

From my understanding a 12 volt battery is fully charged at 12.7

Johnk
26-02-2008, 12:53 PM
Hi Addy.

I believe 12.6 volts (approx) is fully charged for a 12 volt flooded battery. Trojan deep cycle batteries are 100% charged at 12.73 volts and 10% charged at 11.51 volts.

To fully charge a used (depleted) battery requires a higher charge (voltage). In the case of Trojan batteries around 14.8 volts. To maintain a fully charged battery (float) requires 13.2 to 13.8 volts.

I found this on a web site witch is interesting.

“Some automotive charging system designers prefer lower absorption voltages, for example 13.8 VDC (Toyota?), to reduce water consumption and wet Low Maintenance (Sb/Ca) starting batteries to reduce cost. Over time, this combination tends to undercharge the battery and to cause electrolyte stratification which causes the battery to gradually loose capacity due to an accumulation of lead-sulfate or premature failures.”

“One solution is to periodically recharge the battery with an external charger to remove the sulfation or to increase the absorption voltage output to the battery.” - Boost charge the battery.

JK

Big Fella
26-02-2008, 01:02 PM
Here's a question for you all,

If I have a ARB dual battery system can I in theory attach may regualated solar panels to my rear anderson plug and charge my dual battery whilst (let's say) camping> Does this charge the starting battery as well or will the ARB isolator prevent this from happening or is there no problem to let this happen.

Johnk
26-02-2008, 01:41 PM
Hi Big Fella,

I am not sure of the ARB isolator but most isolate the main and auxiliary batteries when engine is turned off and the battery voltage drops to around 12.5 V. How long it takes to get to 12.5 volts depends on the battery load.

Once the main and auxiliary batteries are isolated it is fine to connect solar panels (WITH A GOOD SOLAR REGULATOR) to the Anderson plug. I have been doing this for the last 3 years. I have a jumper cable witch sits between the camper and car with a plug for the solar regulator. The solar regulator then connects to the solar panels. Once connected I can sit in the bush sort of indefinitely (sun, water and beer dependent).

My battery isolator is a standard Redarc which isolates the main and Auxiliary. I know they also make an isolator which has 2 controlling circuits for doing what you suggest. Using a solar panel the camper and auxiliary batteries are charged and when the voltage reaches around 13.4 volts the isolator switches the main battery into the circuit and charges it also. I believe this is not a problem for the Toyota electrics but you had better confirm before implementing. :lol:

Cheers,

JK

Addy
26-02-2008, 01:41 PM
So with the redarc isolator it says that it switches charge to aux when voltage is 13.2 so this would have to be the voltage of the battery nothing to do with the alternator right :?:

Johnk
26-02-2008, 02:01 PM
Addy,

Once the engine is started the main battery voltage (via the alternator) rises. Once the main battery reaches 13.2- 13.4 volts the isolator closes (solenoid pulls in) and the auxiliary battery is charged. When the motor is turn off the battery voltage slowly returns to its lower voltage (with Redarc less than 12.5 volts) which causes the isolator to open circuit disconnecting the batteries.

JK

MattWhite
26-02-2008, 10:19 PM
I will get back to you later when I know more but I read today that some manufacturers are controlling charging voltage with the ECU or PCM. The reason given in the article was a reduction in emissions. Not sure if the D4D has this and not sure of other possible reasons but I'll get back to you.

Matt

Crammy
10-03-2008, 09:06 PM
I've been doing some testing on my batteries and have found that the batteries are only charging to 12.41 volts which is around 75% charged. I charged my deep cycle to 100% using a ctek charger about 2 weeks ago and haven't run anything off it since.

So in theory going by the recommendation not to discharge deep cycle batteries below 50% I've only really got a usable 28.75 AH out of a 115AH battery! :shock: Not really ideal.

I might look into using the ctek off an inverter to charge the battery while on the move rather than the redarc. Probably not the most efficient way to do things but at least I'll have the extra capacity.

Dutchie140
11-03-2008, 05:27 PM
Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum but thought an engineers perspective may be worth a further 10 cents.
The open cell, no load voltage for a lead acid battery is 2.2 volts @ 22degC.
6 cells in the battery gives an open circuit voltage of 13.2V. A charging circuit needs to be higher than 13.2 volts to allow a voltage differential to exist and current to flow. A typical regulated supply voltage [historically] was limited to 13.8V to provide some form of current limiting. Current limiting is required to prevent excessive heat build up in the alternator, regulator and battery. Too much heat is not good for anything.

Newer and smarter regulators provide electronic current limiting and can provide better charge characteristics for the battery including limiting the output voltage when there is no current flow. Therefor some regulators will show a lower output voltage than they are capable of to protect other attached electronics in the vehicle. In other words, open circuit voltage tests do not necessarily give you an indication of the health or otherwise of the charging circuit. There are as many opinions as people on this topic.

A typical Voltage reading on a battery in situ would be between 13.2V and 13.8V and 3rd party relay suppliers should have considered this. Output voltages of 15V or more are typical where current limiting is in place and in accordance with design curves.

The moral..... 12V aint always 12V

Dutchie :? javascript:emoticon(':?')
Confused

Crammy
11-03-2008, 06:17 PM
Hey dutchie thanks for the info, it makes perfect sense.

Monty
16-03-2008, 08:01 PM
Hi alll D4D owners.
I have a January n08 build D4D GXL Auto with Option Pack 2. Output voltage is rarely betty than 13.3 Volts. This seems low but is concistant with others readings.
Any one with a good story from Mr Toyota?
Monty

Johnk
18-03-2008, 09:14 AM
Hi Monty,

Sounds similar to what most of us are seeing. The local Toyota dealer was surprised at the low voltage and suggested I talk to their off site auto electrician. The auto elect said he thought it should be around 14.2 - 14.5 volts when the alternator was boost charging. He suggested I get the details of the side of the alternator so he could check the alternator against the manufactures specs. One thought was that Toyota is using an alternator with a lower voltage regulator.

Currently I am sill trying to get the details off the side of the alternator. Not a lot of room on the alternator side of a D4D. Obviously you need to have little Japanese fingers and arms to work on that side of the motor!!! :wink:

If some one can read the detail plate on the side of the alternator and post the details it would be greatly appreciated

John

Monty
20-03-2008, 09:04 AM
Hi All,
Just checked Prado Manual on CD and voltage should be in the range 13.2 to 14.8. Mine is at the very lower limit. The good book says replace the regulator if under load an unsatisfactory voltage is obtained. Will take this up with Toyota dealer and I am sure he will send me away and then I will head for an opinion from my auto electrician. Will advise

Monty

MattWhite
29-03-2008, 06:07 PM
But is it causing a problem or are you just worried about it? Have a read of this. I cant find anything that states it's fitted to D4D Prados but like I have said earlier, I doubt all of you have the same "problem". At idle, an alternator working flat out would be one of the highest loads on the engine and because of the low RPM any load on the motor makes it run uncleanly. I'm not sure if this makes too much sense but I honestly think you have nothing to worry about.

http://www.radiolocman.com/news/new.html?di=2603

Matt

leachy_9
29-03-2008, 08:53 PM
The charging system on the D4D is designed to replace the charge used during engine starting which it can achieve with 13.2V -13.8v. What it does not do is FULLY recharge the battery. At this charging voltage the battery will only be recharged to approximately 80% of its total capacity. But the battery is sized so that at 80% charge the battery is more than capable of starting the vehicle. However, not fully charging the battery will decrease the life expectancy of the battery.
From a Toyota point of view, so long as the battery is recharged enough to start the vehicle and the battery lasts the 3yr warranty period then the design requirements are satisfied.
From an owners point of view this means the battery will need to be replaced more frequently then if the vehicle charged up to 14.4V, which is an inconvenience rather than a tragedy.
Where the real problem occurs is when you add an auxiliary battery. Typically auxiliary batteries are deep cycle, used to power fridges, and it is most desirable to have these batteries 100% charged to allow the maximum run time before the fridge cuts out you need to recharge. The only way to fully charge a battery is with an absorption voltage of 14.2v-14.6v (depending on the battery type). Clearly this is not possible by simply paralleling up the aux. battery via whatever solenoid. Thus to fully charge an auxiliary battery in a D4D some type of voltage converter is required. The products that I know of are:

Redarc BCDC-1206. This is DC-DC boost converter with a 3-stage battery charge output, which is exactly what is needed in this situation. The only issue I had with this is the relatively small 7A output.

Arrid Twin Charge: Again this is a DC-DC boost converter, but with a 25 Amp output. From the limited literature available, several phone calls and a shop visit I was unable to get (in writing) whether the output is a true 3 stage charger or simply a constant boosted voltage. Thus I was not willing to use this product.

The third option is to run an inverter to power a three stage battery charger. There are hundreds of inverters and three stage chargers on the market to choose from.
This is the setup I use: A 1000W pure sine wave inverter, 30amp i-charge battery charger and a 110AH DC-series Fullriver AGM auxiliary battery.

Leachy

MattWhite
30-03-2008, 12:02 AM
OK, problem understood. It is not a warranty issue or design flaw. Just a design that doesn't work with the intentions of PP members. My apologies but I didn't really see it as a problem that a dealership mechanic should have to try and 'fix'.

Violet
30-03-2008, 08:15 AM
About a month ago I posted the following question on another forum (4WD Action). This was an 'Ask the expert' section that was then answered by Alan Johnson from Piranha Offroad Products. I posted the question over a month ago but only yesterday did they post answers.

Question:

Gilbo
I am looking to buy a dual Battery management system for by late 2007 model D4D Toyota Prado. However I have seen several posts on the internet that indicate me that the charging voltage for some new vehicles has dropped considerably.

A couple of tests on my vehicle after a bit of running showed a voltage of 13.6 volts. Others I have heard from are getting less than 13.4volts after the engines are run for quite a long time. My investigations seem to indicate that most battery systems change to charge the auxiliary battery at around this level. I am nervous that the auxiliary battery will not charge correctly. Especially when I may only stop for a short period then the relay may not even trip to the auxiliary battery at all.

I have noticed that Redarc have changed their product to trip at lower voltages as a direct result in these changes in charging systems (discussed on their July 2006 newsletter from the company)

Are my concerns unfounded or are there adjustments that can be made to the Piranha products to cover these situations? Everything else I read and hear about the Piranha system makes me think this is the system for me – apart from this voltage cut over situations.

I also talked to a guy the other day (who confused me with science) about the use of ‘Boost Converter’ to increase the amount that a battery can be charged to from a standard car alternator. I didn’t really understand. Are there possibilities using this equipment?

What do I have to do to a standard alternator to get it to charge a battery to close to 100% capacity? I am concerned that I need to run the vehicle for a reasonably long time if I discharged a battery to say 60% (after being in the same camp for a day). How do I get the largest amount of charge into the battery (without doing the battery any harm)?

Thanks for your help

Regards,
Simon

Answer:

Since approximately 1990 the standard accepted industry charge rate has been 14.2 volts

We have spoken to our representative from VACC, they recommended 13.2 -14 volts is a normal rate. We have also spoken to the Marketing Director Australian Pacific of Exide Technologies, he recommends 14.2 volts is a normal rate. We have been trying to contact Toyota Australia and have left messages, but we have not received a response to this date.

A boost converter should not be required unless the battery you choose as your aux has a specific change requirement, ie calcium or spiral AGM that simply go to sleep unless charged at 14.2 volts minimum. Most wet cell batteries will charge at lower voltage, eventually. However, the question is why 13.4 is this in fact correct or is it just your car. Is this a problem specific to one car or is it a Prado problem or is in fact a Toyota standard specification for this vehicle.

If in fact the charge rate is as you indicated is correct, I can not at this point determine, if you have a problem. We will keep you posted.[i]

Seems to me like what we are say at PP is not the norm and there is a problem (yes, as mentioned before, not a problem for the vehicle - just a problem for all of us that want t decent charge in an auxiliary battery)

Other comments??

I will try to send copies of this whole thread to this person to get some more comments from him. I'll try to get to him direct. Anyone see a problem with this approach or mind if I copy their posts to Piranha?

Jim
30-03-2008, 04:51 PM
Okay, found this on the net today while web shopping for a new fridge:

http://www.engelaustralia.com.au/cgi-bin/product.cgi?item_id=12vdcbattcharger&item_string=&category=Off%20Road%20Accessories

The Engel 12 Volt in car Battery Charger, which according to Engel is:

..."an electronic battery charger designed to charge lead acid batteries from a 12 volt DC vehicle battery. The charger uses its unique boost charge feature, stepping up to a charge rate allowing the auxiliary battery to properly charge and with its voltage sensing feature via the ignition circuit ensuring the main battery is not depleted while the vehicle is not running."

RRP; $139.95

Could this be used in conjunction with an existing Dual Battery System to boost the charge of the second battery? Installation seems relatively easy and the price is reasonable.


Jim

leachy_9
30-03-2008, 07:52 PM
Jim,

After reading the literature on the Engel unit my first question is what is the output?
At the bottom of the spec sheet it states "batteries that have not been used for extended periods will require a full cycle charge with a 240 Volt AC charger".
This indicates that the output of the Engel unit is just a simple fixed voltage, boosted above the nominal 12V supply. It would be fair to assume the output voltage is around the 14.4V mark which would improve the charging in a D4D. But since the rated input current is only 10Amps then the output current will be even less, probably about 8 to 9 Amps. Which is fairly low and it would take quite a while to recharge a battery that is at a low state of charge.
Bottom line: It would work but be slow to recharge (too slow for my needs at least).
Before installing one, I’d want to see a lot more information about the output of the unit, especially if using seal batteries.
I’m also skeptical of a product that makes claims like “The charger uses its unique boost charge feature” when there is nothing new or unique about boost converters.
I’d suggest that the Redarc would be a better solution as it has a true 3 stage output. – (still too slow for my needs but maybe ok for others)

Leachy

andrewh
31-03-2008, 09:21 AM
I've found that the new D4D will charge at a higher rate if a battery is discharged. I've seen mine up to 14.2 volts.
It seems to me that this newer logic in the Prado charging system makes independent battery management systems even more important than in the past. Unfortunately they are more expensive to buy but they don't work like the more widely used dual battery systems.
The more widely used systems charge the main battery and then open the circuit to the second battery, charging both at the same time. The problem with this is that it charges to the maximum of the weakest battery and forgets about the extra needs of the better battery. The end result is that the second battery may never get a full charge. It can be significantly down.
I run a Rotronics independent system that independently manages three batteries (the main, a second under the bonnet and one in the camper). They have two battery systems too. They also have the lower cost systems that I spoke about earlier. There may be other brands that do this too. By the way, I have no affiliation with Rotronics. The benefit of the independent system is that it switches the charge between each battery individually so that it has the full attention of the car charging system. It monitors each battery on a needs basis. This means that each battery is charged optimally instead of being dragged down by other weaker batteries in the system.
This system is much smarter and seems to get around the problem of lower voltages in the newer Prado charging system.

leachy_9
31-03-2008, 10:45 AM
The Rotronics is a good system that does work and for anyone looking to pay someone to install an off the shelf system it is a good option.
But I found that for the same dollars I was able to go the inverter / 3 stage charger route. This has the benefit of having 240VAC available in the car and providing the abiltiy to charge the battery from any 240VAC source (generator, caravan park etc.)

Leachy.

Johnk
31-03-2008, 04:24 PM
We seem to be skirting around the problem.

The fix may be as simple as changing the electronic regulator in the alternator. A few “we are not happy comments” to Toyota may be useful.

John

Crammy
31-03-2008, 05:09 PM
The Rotronics is a good system that does work and for anyone looking to pay someone to install an off the shelf system it is a good option.
But I found that for the same dollars I was able to go the inverter / 3 stage charger route. This has the benefit of having 240VAC available in the car and providing the abiltiy to charge the battery from any 240VAC source (generator, caravan park etc.)

Leachy.

Leachy this is also going to be my next move on the DB system. My current setup with redarc is only charging to 80% of cap, which realistically given that you should only discharge down to 50% is far from ideal. I've already got a CTEK so I'll be heading down this route soon.

Unless it is causing the cranking batteries to go flat or discharge them down to an unacceptable voltage range I'm sure Toyota aren't going to be too worried about your auxillary battery going flat. As long as they satisfy the relevant requirements which they are, why would they cop a heap of $$ in warranty claims when there isn't really a problem in the running of the vehicle? It's your modification to the car, if it doesn't work the way YOU want it to I'm sure they're not going to bend over backwards for you. It's like putting on bigger tyres that rub and sending it back in for a warranty claim to fix the problem...

Besides, how many cars on the road actually charge a battery more than 80% of capacity? As others have said the charge voltage will vary depending on the amount the battery is discharged. You really need to test it properly while in normal driving conditions and trend the data to get an accurate reflection of whats going on.

With modern electronics who knows how it's being controlled. The new VE commodores had a similar problem with the charging of the battery and a software patch was required to rectify the problem, so I'm not so sure that changing out the regulator will fix it.

Anyhow there's my 2.76 cents worth! :D

leachy_9
31-03-2008, 05:18 PM
We seem to be skirting around the problem.

The fix may be as simple as changing the electronic regulator in the alternator. A few “we are not happy comments” to Toyota may be useful.

As Crammy suggests making any modifications the vehicle's charging system / voltage regualtion is likely to cause Toyota to reject any warranty claim that has anything to do with vehicle electrics / electronics and in a D4D that includes engine and transmission.

Leachy.

Violet
01-04-2008, 07:57 AM
Leachy
I'm interested in your system - but I'm unsure of the connections. Can you describe please - what is connected to what and where?

I already have a 15amp Ctec charger and a 300W pure sine wave inverter - do you think the inverter is big enough to run the charger?

Also where do you mount the charger? I don't really want to have a permanent mounting since I want to use the charger out of the car as well (on a boat).

I'm running short on time and all of this is just getting too confusing. Perhaps I could come around and have a look at your setup?

Regards

Simon

leachy_9
01-04-2008, 10:48 AM
Simon,

If I was to recommed a size for use with a 15A charger it would be a 500W inverter. Though since you already have the 300W inverter, it should be adequate for the 15A Ctek charger, it will just be operating closer to it's max capacity. (Check that it has built-in output and thermal protection).
I have my inverter and charger mounted in the back of the Prado utilising one of the third row seat mounting points. This puts them up above the wheel arch in a space that wasn't used before. (I'm using an AGM battery mounted in a battery box in the rear). Removal of the whole system is just two bolts and an anderson plug.
I use a couple of 100Amp solid sate relays to isolate the inverter from the charging system and the battery from the charger when the vehicle is not running.
I'm pushed for time at the moment to put tegther pictures / circuit diagrams etc. But your more than welcome to come around and I'll go through the whole sytem with you. - send me a PM.

leachy

waltec
01-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Just wondering, has anyone checked the battery voltage other than at idle, say 1500rpm.

My understanding is that alternators work ok at idle but better at cruising speeds. Also if they are controlling the charge voltage to reduce engine load at idle (as suggested previously in this post), there would be no need to do this whilst driving.

End of the day the majority of the charging a battery will receive is whilst we're driving (1500rpm) not idling.

Matt

clifton
01-04-2008, 04:29 PM
Hi All,
I could write pages on this issue but will not bore the hell out of our members, I left the interior lights on for two days and nights by leaving the rear door ajar, something I never do but was a bit crook with a bug so was in the sick bed.
Today when I went into Cairns the Batt voltage was up to 14.0V, for about 5 minutes then sat on 13.8 for the duration with +/- 1.0 volt variation depending on engine speed.
My Battery voltage normally sits on 13.6 to 13.7 when running, when I get the ping I might check this out with one of my dc Ammeters and see whats happening but at present I am not concerned, I will see what happens with the second Aux battery setup when I get time.
All the measurements were taken with an SG11.
Hope this helps a little :) :) :)

Steve & Sandra
06-04-2008, 08:28 PM
Well i left the fridge on all night and this morning the battery voltage was 11.5. tried starting the engine and it was noticable that the battery was not fully charged. With the multimeter across the battery terminals i could only get a maximum of 13.58volts. This is on a D4D. I personally would have thought this would have been higher.
Oh well something to look into before i go and purchase/install a dual battery system. I purchased a 64 watt solar cell this week so hopefully this will make up for the shortfall in the alternator.

cheers

Steve

wally
22-04-2008, 12:00 PM
FYI.

The Sure power seperator switches from 13 to 13.5 volts. They turn off at 12.4 to 12.9 volts.

Hubble80
22-04-2008, 02:36 PM
Has anyone made any headway with this issue?# Just seems to be something we have to live with...

leachy_9
22-04-2008, 07:55 PM
I've gone the inverter / three stage battery charger route.
The system can handle an input volatge as low as 10V and still fully charge the aux. battery. So the lower D4D alternator voltages are no issue.

leachy

ploth
25-06-2008, 03:48 PM
Gday guys - though you might like to try this link out. If you need any more info just email me...

http://www.bonzabuy.com.au/store/produc ... cts_id=313 (http://www.bonzabuy.com.au/store/product_info.php?cPath=72&products_id=313)


As far as I am aware - if you go inverter & then 3 stage charge you will loose a lot of energy in the conversion and also produce excess heat.
A decent inverter (ie one that is 92% efficient or higher) is in excess of $700. Then the charger has to reduce the voltage again...

Of course this will also wear out your alternator faster as well.

The unit listed in the link above seems by far the best option - but willing to be corrected!

:D

leachy_9
25-06-2008, 04:25 PM
With a 7 amp output the Redarc unit is going to take around 6hrs to recharge a 120AH battery that is at a 65% state of charge. I don't know about others other but that is too slow for me.
Also, with the Redarc unit you do not have the ability to recharge the battery from a 240Vac supply (ie caravan park or generator).

There are some extra losses with an inverter but these are minimal and the extra heat generated is negligible (I have a 1000W inverter running in the back of my Prado and there is no heat issue). As long as the load remains below the alternator rating the primary factors determining the life of an alternator are the number of revolutions and external environmental influences. The extra load with an inverter/charger setup shortening the life of an alternator is a furphy. This sounds like it came from a salesman. In fact the previous post smacks of a sales pitch disguised as free advice.

But each to their own, if you think the Redarc suits you better then great. I'd suggest that for someone wanting to go the boost converter / charger route that the RanOx is a better choice:
http://ranox.com.au/401.html

ploth
25-06-2008, 05:17 PM
If 240v charging is required then I would recommend the CTEK battery chargers...
http://www.bonzabuy.com.au/store/produc ... cts_id=315 (http://www.bonzabuy.com.au/store/product_info.php?products_id=315)

To have one of these and the Redarc units would cost less than the inverter setup - and last much longer.

No offense but I have had a lot of experience with cheap inverters and not only do they waste a lot of power, they don't last very long.

As for the alternator wearing issues - the wear factor is totally affected by the current drawn through it.
For instance an alternator with no load might spin for 10 years with no issues - but put close to it's rated charge and it would be strange if it lasted 2 years. Driving with your lights on continually can be a safe practise but it does put extra wear on the brushes, bushes and bearings on the alternator.

This is increased with power draw - ie a fridge & wasted power through an inverter to charge a battery is not a small load.

But yes each to his own :)

leachy_9
26-06-2008, 09:47 AM
Rather than deal with unsupported claims and antidotes lets have a look at some figures:

A 40 L Engel pulls 2.5 Amps at 12.8V.
As per Engle website:
http://www.engelaustralia.com.au/cgi-bin/faq.cgi?faq=8

For the purpose of this exercise I’ll make the following assumptions, all of which are generous towards the boost converter option:
Fridge duty cycle 50%
Charger efficiency 90%
Boost converter efficiency 95%
Inverter efficiency 75%

Boost converter system (average)

Average current to run fridge: 2.5 *0.5 = 1.25A
Average current into charger: 1.25/0.9 = 1.39A
Average current into boost converter (out of alternator): 1.39/0.95 = 1.46A

Inverter converter system (average)

Average current to run fridge: 2.5 *0.5 = 1.25A
Average current into charger: 1.25/0.9 = 1.39A
Average current into boost inverter (out of alternator): 1.39/0.75 = 1.85A

So even when being generous to boost converter the difference in average current draw between the systems is only:
1.85A – 1.46A = 0.39A
This will not have any significant effect on the life expectancy of an alternator.

If we where to look at peak current draw remembering that the max output of the Redarc is 7amps.

Boost converter system (peak)

Peak current out of charger: 7amps
Peak current into charger: 7/0.9 = 7.8amps
Peak current into boost converter (out of alternator): 7.8/0.95 = 8.2amps

Inverter converter system (peak)

Peak current out of charger: 7amps
Peak current into charger: 7/0.9 = 7.8amps
Peak current into inverter (out of alternator): 7.8/0.75 = 10.4amps

So at peak current draw the extra current draw in the inverter system is:
10.4 – 8.2 = 2.2amps

Again this amount of current will not significantly decrease the life expectancy of the alternator. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that most members of Pradopoint have accessories on their vehicles that would increase the alternator load. But when I searched, I could not find any reports of premature alternator failure.

Talk of an inverter system significantly decreasing alternator life expectancy is nothing more than an attempt to try and muddy the waters and justify an alternative product. As I have said before, I believe the 7Amp output of the Redarc is too low to provide an acceptable recharge rate that would be expected from someone looking to maximise the performance of their aux. battery(s).

If you are selling the products you are putting forward why not state that up front rather than disguise it in a post as “advise” which you try to support with completely unsupported claims like:



To have one of these and the Redarc units would cost less than the inverter setup - and last much longer.


Leachy

Crammy
26-06-2008, 11:07 AM
Another thing to consider when using the inverter method is the type of battery you're charging. If you're charging a wet cell and running your fridge off it at the same time, it will boil dry if you don't keep an eye on it.

ploth
26-06-2008, 11:45 AM
Gday again - I am surprised at the tone of your reply... have I offended you?

And is your charger really 90% efficient? Let me know I'd be interested in the brand & model if this is the case.

Talk of alternator wear is not about muddy waters at all - but I have worked around the auto scene for years and know first hand that wear is an issue - to fail to mention it is (in my opinion) failing to give a needed warning about costs that will be incurred later. Unless your car has a PMA alternator you WILL be affected - the only thing is when. It is common sense - you have sneakers in the cupboard & use them once a week for a walk they last 10 years - run in them then they last 5 years, rock climb or play tennis then 2 years. The same with an alternator - the higher the energy draw the more it wears.

Before I get into a few more realistic figures, lease don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the difference between the two scenarios will burn out our alternator in a few months - but I am saying the more current you draw through the inverter the more the wear & heat increases.

If 7 amps is not big enough for you it is a different story altogether. If you flatten your battery so much & don't drive much in between I would be looking at a solar panel or petrol geny as going over 7 amps can damage some batteries depending on size / type etc. If the charge goes in too quickly and the battery is not designed for it...but this is opening a whole new can of worms!

Assuming your charger IS 90% (which I doubt is even close) and using the rest of the figures you quoted.
You stop somewhere for 12 hours & have your fridge running
1.25A / hour = 15AH

With the setup I would use: (Redarc $299)
15AH drawn out of the battery
15/7amp charging = 2.14 hours to recharge
drawing 7.37A off the alternator for 2.14 hours (15.77AH)

With your recommendation
15/0.75 = 20AH drawn out of the battery if using the inverter
20 / 10amp = 2 hours to charge.
drawing 14.8A off the alternator for 2 hours (29.6AH)

I am no boffin but correct me if I am wrong in just over 2 hours of driving you have used nearly DOUBLE the energy to recharge your batteries. This has to add up over the course of a number of kms. And 2.14 hours to recharge a battery after 12 hours of fridge use will suit most serious 'get awayers'... those who use more energy & drive less would be looking at generators / solar panels surely!

If you only use the inverter for charging it is better....

1) Redarc recharges in 2.14hrs drawing 7.37A (15.77AH)
2) Inverter recharges in 1.5hrs drawing 14.8A (22.2AH)

6.5AH for every 15AH drawn out of the battery directly! That's around 43% waste and extra wear & tear. Of course if you adjust the charger efficiency you will see this rise dramatically.

ie if the charger is 75% efficient (which would be more likely) the figures are -
inverter charges in 1.5 hrs drawing 17.7A (26.6AH)
This means the inverter / charger combo just wasted 11.97AH for 15AH used! This is 79.8% wasted energy, extra heat and wear !

This is still not taking into consideration the battery efficiency which reduces the lower the state of charge you take it to, making it harder to charge. Nor is it taking into consideration the heat from the inverter making it harder for the fridge to stay cool. Both of which favor option 1

Also with the cheaper inverters the efficiency goes down as the current goes up as well...and as mentioned the time that these units last will decrease the more it is used especially in the heat.

The effect of 2.2amps on fuel, alternator parts, fan belts etc does not sound much - but as seen this is actually not quite the case.
With just 12 hours fridge use you have got nearly 12AH difference!

This would not be noticed immediately (the heat inside the car might be a pain if you sleep near it - trust me I know from experience!) but over the course of 100,000kms? It would be interesting to see! Of course added heat means your fridge would need to work harder too...but in cold climates it can be nice!

The comment "To have one of these and the Redarc units would cost less than the inverter setup - and last much longer. " is not unsupported or some antidote...

First of all price - $299 for the redarc. IF you need the CTEK then $150 - $500 extra. How much did your setup cost?

Go to any reputable solar dealer & they will tell you the same thing - cheap inverters do not last. They are not saying that to get more money out of you - often they make less on good quality items...But they know over & over that cheap inverters are unreliable, inefficient and get way too hot. They also don't generally like bumps or vibration.

Compare this to world class items like Redarc and CTEK they are also world class leaders for a reason - because they outlast the 'competition' by many times over. If you want an inverter for a few years no problem get a cheapo but if you want it to last choose high quality. If you must waste energy at least get a Selectronic inverter that will last.

Don't take my word for it - ask Ferrari and major truck companies like Volvo etc who install some of the Redarc / CTEK products from the factory! As far as I am aware no manufacturers use Ranox? There's a reason the warranty on a Redarc is double that on a Ranox...

If you only get away for short trips every so often on the weekend, I would suggest you go for the cheapest / easiest option. (which may be the Redarc anyway!)...

But if you want to keep your car for a long period or get away more often or for longer my opinion is avoid stepping up, converting & stepping down of the current for any purpose as it is simply a waste and causes more wear (no matter how small) on all parts involved.

leachy_9
26-06-2008, 12:56 PM
Gday again - I am surprised at the tone of your reply... have I offended you?


Yes I find it offensive for someone to come on to a forum as first time poster and offer unsupported information in the guise of advise when they are trying to sell products.

As far as your assertions about significantly increased alternator wear or the appropriateness of certain products, I think I’ve made my position clear and I’ll leave it up to others to decide for themselves. But it’s only fair they know who is providing the information and any vested interest they may have.

Leachy

ploth
26-06-2008, 01:48 PM
Strange Leachy - if anyone wants to know who I am or wants to know about my 'vested interests' they are free to email me.

And as stated it is not unsupported advice - there is much support for what I have said. There is no 'guise' I saw the post & that people were looking at options - I posted one. I thought your figures were misleading so posted my own so people can make their own decisions.

Your reaction seems over-the-top as does your interpretation of my remarks on alternator wear. But if as it seems you are the 'policeman' of these forums & like to rail newbies like me so be it!

I hate to see people wasting energy and money. And it happens all over the place. Lack of knowledge can kill!

So if you need advice anybody let me know...I don't claim to know it all or have it all right but will help if I can and do have a fair bit of experience in some of the items mentioned in this post :)

lofty
26-06-2008, 02:12 PM
Guys guys guys, sheeez!!

I thought this was meant to be a friendly forum :?

I know nothing about all the facts and figures being quoted here, and to be honest i'm quite happy to keep it that way.

What i do know is that i have a dual battery setup with solenoid, we go camping, 4wding etc, i plug my fridge and fluoro light in, it works, beers are kept cold etc etc.

All is good with the world :) :)

ploth
26-06-2008, 02:42 PM
Awesome lofty! Less talking - more driving...

Enjoy :)

Grey Nomad
26-06-2008, 04:33 PM
Hi all
I took my D4D around Oz last year and the battery never used any electrolyte. The little "charge indicator" on the battery always showed fully charged. Toyota have engineered the system so that with frequent and long driving periods the average "Joe" doesn't need to check the battery for boiling dry. The downside of this is that at home where I drive a short distance every second day, I need to keep an eye on the "charge indicator" and give the battery a "tickle up" with my Ctek every 6 weeks or so. I believe that Toyota have good reasons for designing the system in this way but it is not the best for charging a secondary battery. We have to remember that Toyota did NOT have our needs in mind when they designed it. IMHO the best secondary battery solution is an inverter and Ctek charger despite the cost, primarily because the Ctek charger is such a good battery charger.
Regards - John

plucker
26-06-2008, 05:22 PM
I think that the charge current on the Prado is probably the right charge for a touring vehicle for limited battery problems. The Prado with it's long range fuel tanks is definately designed as a comfortable tourer. Thus Grey Nomad, whilst touring you will have no worries with the battery.

Ploth, I can understand some of your opinions, but lets not be too hasty believing that the most expensive or the longest warranty is necessarily the best. Some marine sounders are good examples of that. One particular brand which is cheaper, has way more options offers the longest warranty. It is unreliable and regularly needs replacing. Some more expensive brands offer the reliability but not the technology, they are way behind.
The equipment you have listed is probably very good, however it sounds like Leachy has found a cheaper alternative to what you have to offer.
Perhaps it is not as reliable as the stuff you mentioned, or perhaps it is. Perhaps he doesn't use the equipment as often etc. etc.
Ath the end of the day there are a lot of what if's.

Leachy, sounds like you have installed a system that suits your needs and you have informed everyone on here about its benifits. Good work. Although I do think that Ploth's system has some merits also.

I think that both guys have found ideas that suits their individual needs. As to me I am happy to sit on the fence as I dont need this kind of thing yet. I would have to investigate the pros and cons of both setups and not necessarily rely on the price to establish the outcome.
Cheers, happy discussions.

waltec
27-06-2008, 07:40 PM
Hi Ploth

You continue to go on about charger efficiency, but no where in the the specs you supplied could I find the efficiency of the Redarc (please correct me if I'm wrong). The redarc system is effectively a 3 stage charger so I would expect it to have similar efficiency to a similar 240v charger.

All 3 of the pieces of equipment that are being compared here use switchmode technology. This technology has had a lot of development in the last 10 yrs since I did my training, with that development exploding in the last 5 yrs (driven by renewable energy use).

End of the day if it works for you good, but others have different requirements, and as such may not suit them.

Also battery charging is not just a simple task of taking energy out and then replacing it. Unfortunately batteries are not a linear device and tend to taper off when approaching fully charged. harder to charge the last 10% than the rest of the charge. That is why inteligent chargers switch to absorbtion mode.

As previously state other like the fact that by using the inverter/charger setup it gives them 240v whilst away and the ablity to charge from 240v when shore power is available.

As for excessive alternator wear, you cant compare it to shoe use, as the only way you can turn off an alternator is to turn off the engine, they are not like an AC compressor, they effectively adjust the current and voltage out of the alternator by varing the voltage on the exciter field winding. Bearing wear will be similar no matter how much currewnt is being drawn. The brushes are also always rubbing, and yes you, may get slightly more wear due to arcing and so forth, but you will also reduce the glazing of the brushes (glazing reduces the efficiency of the alternator).

All in all there are pros ands cons of both systems. Personally I think the Invertor/charger system is overly complicated, and I also try to avoid 240v where possible, but I also think the 7amps is not enough, but luckily I don't have a D4D (at least for this problem, would love 1 fror the power and economy!!!) so I can get away with a good quality intelligent controller.

Another example of different strokes for different folks!!!!

Matt

ploth
28-06-2008, 12:11 PM
What happened to the 'friendly forum' Lofty?!



Waltec - I will try to get some specs for you next week about the Redarc. As stated the losses & extra draw even if the charger is 90% efficient are quite large. To this end the Redarc is a much better option. My main point all along is about not wasting energy - the efficiency of the charger is but one point I made.

If the other charger being used is switch mode like the Redarc, then it should be very efficient. Still not quite as efficient as the Redarc (or possibly another switchmode chargers operating at 12v) as it would have to reduce the current from 240AC - but the difference wouldn't be that big. The biggest loss would be the inverter.

You are quite correct about the recent advances in this sort of equipment. I'm sure it won't be too long before a cheaper chinese one will pop up that actually lasts and I will then be promoting that!


As for your comments on alternator wear, however - I have to disagree. If you can proove me wrong you could be a very wealthy man. Increased wear from increased pressure or energy conversion (and heat) is unavoidable and observable in every field.

Here's a quick test for you all. Start your car & wait til it is idling smoothly. Then flick on the high beams. What happens? The revs drop. This is more noticeable the more draw you put through it.

Do you know how much force it takes to do that? Even with smaller motors it takes a lot of resistance. It is your alternator slowing the motor down.
The bearings are spinning the whole time your car is running - but there is very little load on the bearings unless the alternator is charging. The load increases with current

The belt has to be tight enough to handle the friction of the alternator when under full load. This is why larger alternators use gilmer belts as the standard V belt would have to be too tight and wear the bearings out very quickly.

The brushes wear down quicker while under load as well. As I have stated all along the difference between the two systems is not going to burn your alternator out in a matter of months - it would take very large spotties to do that!

I do have an example for you first hand - an old delco remy alternator on a V6 chev in a Landrover (am I allowed to use language like that here?!) - lasted about 3 years of regular day to day use after I bought the car. This included night driving & a lot of beach 'play' taking groups of recovering addicts sandboarding & thrashing etc. The large thermo fans saw a fair bit of work during this time. Anyway alternator died after 3 years...I don't know how long it had been in the car.

I had new brushes put in and I also re-wired the whole car with a dual battery setup (a 660CCA and a Large 200AH deep cycle) & a number of heavy draw items...I went upto Newman & camped for a few weeks in 45 degree heat - the Engel never switched off! It was a harsh 3000km trip and then I was using the car as a daily driver - but not much thrashing. After just 6 months the alternator died. the brushes where totally gone & the bearings were starting to make noises. Needless to say it was not worth me fixing this 50A alternator - I went out & bought a 80A unit. Again (just to avoid being misquoted (again!)) this example is much more extreme than what we are talking about and other factors would affect the results - but the same principle applies.

If you contact car / alternator manufacturers you will find info on this. the more you want to draw the bigger your alternator, better the bearings, wider the fan belt etc etc otherwise they wear out too quickly. But an alternator on a car with no electrics would last for untold years without issues in most cases

The principle can be seen in almost any wearing part (yes even shoes - ie walking as opposed to running!).
Take an angle grinder - basically the same setup with brushes & bearings. Turn it on with no load it may last for 2 years without turning it off and still be going strong. But slow the blade by cutting metal and you won't get 2 months straight running before either a bearing needs replacing or the brushes are totally useless or worse it will catch fire (like 5 of mine have while building rural sheds). Yes the angle grinder gets more sideways force than your alternator and it is doing more revs (approx 7500rpm for some) but the principle is the same.

As I have stated about 4 times now - the differences are not huge on an instantaneous measurement - but over 100,000kms then will add up and I think should be considered by those making an investment in equipment for a car they may want to keep for many more years than the alternator will last!


PLUCKER - I understand your comments on expensive v's best and agree - expensive isn't always best at all.

With items as I have stated (like Redarc, Ctek and Selectronic) however, the facts, figures and experience of many (including myself) is very clear.

Im not saying you are silly to buy anything else - I'm just saying that normally it will cost you more in the long run.
The average Redarc user will get years of trouble free use - if they ever want to sell it they may even get 40-75% of the purchase price back by selling - while the cheap chinese inverter user will have to replace or repair the unit in 2-3 years after wasting energy and wearing their alternator more. Of course for those travelling to remote areas you want reliability over everything else. So again if you insist on wasting energy - by a decent inverter!
But doesn't mean that EVERY inverter user will have trouble - and as stated if you only go off every so often it could be worth the punt!

if you are looking at needing an extra battery really think through what the battery will be used for, it's size, how often, driving times in between, how many kms your car has done, how long you want to keep your car etc etc so you can see what exactly you will need.
Even the best item in the wrong application is useless. For instance if you only do 30 minutes driving in between staying places for two weeks at a time with a fridge running - it is basically useless to have any device to charge while driving.
If there is power available where you are staying I would recommend a CTEK charger or similar to charge off 240v. If there is no power you will need solar power or a geny. Work out how you will use your car & then look at the pros & cons...

16-08-2008, 09:52 PM
Gents
I have just joined in.
I have a 2007 DHD. Piranha has just told me that my fancy (and expensive) deep cycle battery is being destroyed because it cannot get enough charge. Piranha wants me to swap the sealed battery for one that will accept charge at a lower voltage. Not crazy about this as a solution.
Inteestingly, a few months ago I bought a Kimberley Kamper. It has 6 small Deep Cycle batteries - totalling 210 ah. KK insistst that, t charge them, the car MUST be pumping at least 14 v. I was told, however, that I'd be OK even though it was understood that the Prado generated only 13.6 v - because the KK has a booster. Hopefully that means I have only been killing my DC battery under the bonnet!
I'll make some inquiries at KK to see what I can find out about the booster in the trailer. Maybe I could put another one under the bonnet. Maybe better, I could move it from the trailer to the car and cover all bases with the one unit.
I'll let you know.

Steve & Sandra
08-10-2008, 02:02 PM
Just had a week away with new dual battery system, I seen 13.9 volts during the week and after about 6hours of running the voltage would come down 13.3 - 13.6.
Definitely not like the older cars which would give you almost 14.5 volts.
I am still happy though, i was concerned previously with the lower voltages but it seems since fitting the second battery the voltages have come up.
Cheers
Steve