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View Full Version : Spot light install Problems????? Help!



sublib25
01-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Okay,
Bought the lightforce RMDL 170 and loom.
Found the high beam switching wire (Negative)
Set up loom as per diagram 2 of the light force instructions.
As I've never had spotty's before I don't know if they are operating correctly.

With all lights off the spotty's can be turned on/off via the toggle on the dash.
(is this normal)

When lights are on plus the toggle, spotties will turn on and off via high beam(stork switch) as soon as the lights are turned off (stork switch)
spotties come on until toggle is turned off.

Doing my head in here guys,I've checked the wiring is done as per the instructions.Can anyone confirm operation is correct and legal??? :? :?

All help appreciated.

Chuck
01-11-2007, 10:54 PM
Don't think thats right mine only turn on when the lights are on high beam.
You would run a risk of flattening the battery if toggle hit by mistake and car was off.
I think and I may be corrected but the lights should only be able to be turned on when high beam is activated?

Somebody may shoot me down in flames

Waits......

StormyKnight
01-11-2007, 10:58 PM
With all lights off the spotty's can be turned on/off via the toggle on the dash.
(is this normal)

No, by law they need to turn off when you dip your lights without you also having to turn the driving light switch off.


When lights are on plus the toggle, spotties will turn on and off via high beam(stork switch) as soon as the lights are turned off (stork switch)
spotties come on until toggle is turned off.

No, somethings not right...


Doing my head in here guys,I've checked the wiring is done as per the instructions.Can anyone confirm operation is correct and legal??? :? :?

No, not legal.

Driving lights should only come on when the high beam is selected depending on your driving lights switch. If this switch is on then the driving lights are on, if its off, they are off. As soon as you switch back to low beam, the Drivings lights should also switch off irrespective of the Driving light switch.

I can talk you thru the wiring if needed....

Cheers
Richard

StormyKnight
01-11-2007, 10:59 PM
Somebody may shoot me down in flames

Waits......

I shot, but missed, only cause your right Chuck!

Cheers, Richard

Chuck
01-11-2007, 11:01 PM
Wooo Hoooo One in a row.

StormyKnight
01-11-2007, 11:22 PM
Wooo Hoooo One in a row.

Indeed, write down the time & date ...........oh & the year it really doesn't happen that often does it :?:

StormyKnight
01-11-2007, 11:33 PM
Anyway back on topic...
http://www.offroaders.com/images/projects/lightforce/wiring-diag.gif

http://www.timcamerondesign.com.au/TCDGraphics/RELAY.gif

Ignoring the colour codes here as they may not be right in all cases...

On the left is a diagram for switching your spotties on via a relay. Note that in this case the high beam is switched using the positive side - we will make adjustments for negative switching in a minute. On the right is the pins on a normal driving light relay. Thje coil is between pins 86 & 85 & the high current contacts that actually carry the spotties power are between pins 30 & 87.

So to switch to negative switching, i.e. +12v is always supplied to the highbeam lamp, but the other side of the highbeam lamp is switched to ground to complete the circuit & turn the highbeam light on. All we have to do is supply a constant +12v instead to the pin that says "From High Beam Switch" & connect the other side of the coil (little spiral in the relay as per the picture) instead to the switched negative side of the lamp. That way the relay coil will activate when the high beams are turned on & the "on/off" switch in the diagram is also on.

Any questions?

sublib25
02-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Thanks for the reply's guys,
The thing I can't figure out is why they come on just by activating
the dash toggle.
Other wise all seems normal they come on and off with high beam
but turn back on when lights are all off and dash toggle is on.
I'll have a look tomrrow and post instruction sheet and where I
joined in at the light for the toggle feed.
Cheers regards
Darren

goanna
02-11-2007, 08:45 AM
Sounds to me like you have picked up a constant power source for your trigger wire, would explain why when you click the switch they come on. That means the relay would have to have a state change and would then have required power from somewhere.

Chippy
02-11-2007, 09:06 AM
Remember that the Prado's low beam / high beam system operates with the low beam on all of the time. I made the same mistake when I was trying to wire up my spotties. I had turned the high beam on and tested the wires with a multimeter to see which one had power - then used the first one I found - and my spotties came on with low beam and high beam.

I had picked up the low beam power wire :oops: Eliminated this wire from the search. Checked again and picked up the high beam power wire .. and the system now works as it should.

This is my "Electro-klutz" explanation ... :D

Cheers
Chippy

sublib25
02-11-2007, 09:32 AM
How do I attatch a scanned picture???

Relay configured as follows

87 White to spot lights
85 Black and red
86 Black& yellow
30 + yellow (through fuse)
plus Black & yellow
high beam tap looking at plug is on the left(vertical)
Toggle switch wire red/Black + high beam tap
driving lights white plus seperate ground on lights.
power yellow.
for negative switch instructions say join both black and yellows,instead of grounding 86.

All help appreciated guys I'm positive it's as per their diagram.
Thanks for all the help.
Regards Darren. :(

Chippy
02-11-2007, 10:26 AM
OK Darren ... time to simplify.

Check out StormyKnight's relay diagram ..

http://www.timcamerondesign.com.au/TCDGraphics/RELAY.gif


There are 2 simple circuits.
The first one has power coming in at 30 and out at 87 to the driving lights.
The second has power (from the high beam wire) coming in at 86 and earth at 85.

Simplicity itself. When the high beam is turned on the circuit (86 - 85) is activated and triggers the other circuit (30 - 87) allowing power to the driving lights.

So ... (and we'll ignore the driving light switch on the dash for a minute)

1. Run a wire from the battery +ve, through a fuse, to 30.
2. Run a wire (or pair of wires) from 87 to the driving lights .. and don't forget the earth for your driving lights.
3. Tap into your high beam wire and run a wire from there to 86. Sorry, I hate scotch locks. I would solder this on then shrink tube or tape it shut.
4. Run a wire from 85 to an earth.

You now have a completed driving light circuit with the driving lights only coming on when the high beam is turned on.

Last bit ...

This is where you fit the driving light switch.
You cut the wire that goes from the high beam wire to 86.
Join each end to a pair of wires that run through the firewall and up to the dash mounted switch.

In effect .. all you have done is put an extra switch in that wire from the high beam to the relay ... you've just used longer wire so you can position it more conveniently on the dash.

Not trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs ... I just often find it easier to take a problem right back to basics and build up from there. It often helps eliminate my own frequent brain farts :lol: :lol:

Cheers
Chippy

sublib25
02-11-2007, 11:16 AM
Okay this is why I'm getting frustrated.

What you have explained is as per the first diagram in the instructions.
Simply put the lights wont work as there is no active on the light.(high beam)it's switched negative.(high beam tap)
To get around this who ever designed the circuit looped 30 & 86
thus giving direct power when the dash toggle is used.
Appart from this the lights function as they should via the high beam stork switch.spotty's on/off with high beam.

Thanks for the help guys
2 sparky's at work couldn't work it out either.
Never come accross nagative switching light circuit.

Chippy
02-11-2007, 11:20 AM
To get around this who ever designed the circuit looped 30 & 86

Which defeats the whole purpose of having a relay .. they may as well just have a wire, from the battery, through a switch, to the lights. :? :shock: :?

Cheers
Chippy

StormyKnight
02-11-2007, 11:55 AM
To get around this who ever designed the circuit looped 30 & 86

Which defeats the whole purpose of having a relay .. they may as well just have a wire, from the battery, through a switch, to the lights. :? :shock: :?

Cheers
Chippy

No not so fast Chippy.....

As I mentioned above to use a negative switching circuit - connect a constant 12V to pin 86 (coincidently you will also have a constant 12V on pin 30 to actaully power the lights.) so you can hook these two together.

Now to get the relay to switch you need to hook pin 85 to ground. Now in a negative switching system your highbeam switch is used to do this so we just need to tap into that circuit .... before the actaul high beam switch. i.e at the lamp itself so that like ou higbeam light, our relay will also come on.

If this is still unclear I will edit the relay diagram & the circuit diagram for negative switching & post that. Your diagram that you have you will need to post it onto the web somewhere & then link it to this forum using the IMG/IMG tags - with brackets [].

Also....one thing to be aware of.......pin 85 which hooks to the other side of the highbeam lamp......if the lamp is off, this point will have 12volts on it via the lamp filement. So if we were to connect pin 86 to ground our relay would energize!...the current thru the highbeam lamp would be insuffiecient to make it come on because the coil of the relay draws very little power, but it would be sufficient to turn the relay on. This is how the relay can turn on even if the highbeams are off! And further....if you are using 12v from your accesories for your spotties switch, when the accesories is turned off it will go to ground - not open circuit, so there is another way that the lights might be comming on.

Is this a possibility sublib? That your toggle switch is connecting to ground when the switch is in the off position?

....persist mate...we will get it sorted :lol:

& PS how do you know that your vehicle is negative switching....other people with Prados here are indicating that it is positively switched.

Cheers
Richard

Chippy
02-11-2007, 01:22 PM
Cheers Richard ... I just figured on REALLY SIMPLE as a starting point.

I think you've also picked up on a KEY ELEMENT ......


& PS how do you know that your vehicle is negative switching....other people with Prados here are indicating that it is positively switched.



Cheers
Chippy

sublib25
02-11-2007, 01:38 PM
Cheers Richard ... I just figured on REALLY SIMPLE as a starting point.

I think you've also picked up on a KEY ELEMENT ......


& PS how do you know that your vehicle is negative switching....other people with Prados here are indicating that it is positively switched.



Cheers
Chippy

Well the main thing was reading between earth and the headlight plug gave no voltage when highbeam was switched on and off.
When I tried from positive terminal on battery to headlight plug I
had voltage when high beam was on and none when off.
Guy's I'd love to be proven wrong.
That's why I had hoped people could confirm their working systems
In regards to which wire they tapped into.
I used passenger side head light,left Vertical pin looking straight at the plug(female side)

No idea how to add photo's or diagrams
but have wired up as per instructed here.No go.
Would love it to be as simple as me using wrong wire for high beam tap.

sublib25
02-11-2007, 09:38 PM
Well.......
Thanks to those that helped me out...you know who you are,
Greatly appreciated.
Tap in was center pin on Headlight.(I'm sure everyone knew this)
All over the net there are articles about high lux and Prado having negative switching light circuits so I assumed this to be correct.
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