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View Full Version : DOES YOUR PRADO BRAKE PEDAL DO THIS?



PeteS
31-05-2007, 05:29 PM
Push with a very firm pressure on the brake pedal while the engine is running and the pedal slowly sinks to the floor almost.
I must state that in day to day driving my vehicle stops ok and you do not normally notice it.

After taking it twice back to the Toyota dealer they now tell me "THAT'S NORMAL in Prados". I would leave until they let me try some other Prado's................... DAM'N THEY DID IT ALSO!!!!!!

ANYONE ELSE have a similar problem?

You may say well I will never push my brakes that hard. Well believe me I have when doing some rock crawling on a steep descent. You will really need to lean on that pedal as you are easing over the rocks. The brake pedal slowly goes down to a stage you have trouble almost reaching it and you start to panic that you are about to lose all braking.

Cheers
PeteS

Drew
31-05-2007, 06:04 PM
Pete,

I've noticed that the pedal feel in my 120 is not what I'm used to.

See: http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=471#471

I think it might have something to do with the EBA (Emergency Brake Assist) function.

I think I remember my Subaru Forester doing it once when off road also.

Someone with more mechanics knowledge might be able to explain it further.

Drew.

Johnk
02-12-2007, 09:01 PM
Thanks for the post John, Drew

I thought I was heading for a fast trip to Toyota. I too noticed my 07 - 120 brakes appeared to fade. Sitting in the driveway with the motor running I noticed the brake pedal fading towards the floor - Not something I expected. Seems OK on the road. Nice if Toyota put a warning in the manual (Ops, maybe I should check). :?

Cheers

John

Strahan
02-12-2007, 10:21 PM
Roger that. It is normal. Cruisers do it as well.
Feels a bit funny i know. also just after start up you can hear the cylinder "pumping " up.

tis all good :D :D

Get2it
06-03-2008, 07:05 PM
I purchased my Prado D4D in Feb 07 and found the pedal went to the floor whilst in traffic. Apparently normal for Prado's. At the 10,000 kms & 20,000 kms service my brakes were checked by the Dealer and found to be operating efficiently. Three days before the 20,000 kms service I had a minor accident where the Prado did not pull up. The pedal went to the floor. I complained and was advised that a full bleed of the system was carried out and no problem could be found. After about four days, I again had a narrow miss in traffic and was not happy :cry: . I located a Brake specialist who bleed the system and found air in the lines. Further tests found that the Master Cylinder was faulty. I went to the Dealer who was livid that I had taken the Prado to an outside specialist. I changed Dealers and had the master cylinder replaced under warranty and have had no problems since. The pedal still travels further than what I have been used too, but the Prado pulls up now. :D :D

If your problems still persist it may be best to seek a second opinion.

I followed your suggestion and sought other opinions. A 2nd master cylinder was replaced by another Toyota Dealer as they thought the vehicle was unsafe. An inspection centre mechanic had the opportunity to drive this car and stated that the brakes were inconsistent and advised that the ABS was not operating correctly. When a dealership was approached they stated they the brakes were fine. Prior to the expiry of the warranty I had a full mechanical inspection and as a result of this inspection had the CV boots replaced, and turbo replaced. After 96,000 kms the disc pads still had 80% on the front and 65% the rears. The mechanic was aware that we had towed a caravan around Australia and approx 40,000 kms of the 96,000 km had been with the caravan on the back. He felt the brakes needed an overhaul. I approached the dealer but the received the same reply.

For us the problem has now been solved. We traded it in on a 150 Series Prado GX, 5 door, 5 seater. We have now got 360 kms on the clock and no problems. Touch wood. This will be the last Toyota for us if we have anywhere near the problems with had with the 120 series.

Crammy
06-03-2008, 08:29 PM
I haven't noticed the poor pedal feel yet but I've had a few funny things happen with the ABS at low speed.

Today I was driving out of our driveway (very slowly) and a car was coming so I braked to stop and the car kept creeping forward and you could feel the ABS doing something weird. The missus even got a bit edgy because she thought I didn't see the car coming!

Prado04
07-03-2008, 07:36 AM
The ABS is a little strange in my Prado as well, coming out of the same shopping center 2 times when it is wet the ABS has activated at low speed.

mackayvx
15-02-2011, 12:39 AM
hey guys... interesting posts....
My 120 series brake pedal goes to the ground if I hold it down hard enough as well
In everyday driving it seems absolutely fine..
Maybe an independant opinion may be needed on this one!
Off to a brake specialist i go...

Get2it
15-02-2011, 07:46 AM
Good luck Mackayvx. I had two brake master cylinders replaced and countless near misses before I gave the Prado back to Toyota and bought a 150 Series. In the end Toyota Technicians didn't reply to any emails because the dealers said there was not a problem with the brakes.

Bazza
15-02-2011, 08:33 AM
A couple of years ago in my 03 model, I was towing my 5mtr boat down into Wisemans Ferry NSW when the brake pedal went all the way to the floor. No brakes at all! I could feel my freckle gripping the seat! For those that know the area ... I shot around the last bend near the pub, turned hard left, and shot through a line of vehicles getting on the ferry. I pulled up on the handbrake about 10mts down the road. Talk about shi#@%ing myself!
I also took it to my dealer, who after 3 days in the workshop, said that they could find no problem with the braking system but they replaced the master cylinder anyway. It never happened again but I always expected it to, and the brakes continued to feel soft. The brakes never felt great on the 03 model and it's the same on my new 09 model. I would be interested to hear from those who have changed to the larger vented after market disks to see if it improved them at all. I think the heat effects the standard system greatly.
Bazza

mackayvx
16-02-2011, 08:34 PM
Interesting information guys.

My curiosity got the better of me today at work and I grabbed the keys to a '09 120 series Prado crew car.

Sure as hell, with the engine running, I pressed hard on the pedal ..........

and it went all the way to the ground.....

This vehicle does get flogged but, it is inspected regularly and it passes its mine site safety inspections.

I am now agreeing that this may just be normal for the prado brake pedals.... Maybe to do with the ABS?

I am also looking into a Recall on the Master Cylinders on certain 120 series cars....

I did find some info on this by searching Pradopoint.....

I am calling Toyota tomorrow.... Will keep you posted with what I find out

mzeesh2006
30-03-2011, 06:27 PM
I was too, curious about my 120 series Prado brakes doing the same thing.

The brakes were fine until the day I drove it on flooded streets. I know that sounds normal for a Prado but the thing is I was doing around 60 Kph on 100 cm of water and when the road cleared out I tried to slow down but the pedal just went through the floor without the Prado even stopping at all. This was around 2 years ago, I tried the mechanics but they couldn't give me a correct feedback. I do have brakes but not as good as how they were before the rain.
Suggestions?

Thanks!

nickchap
30-03-2011, 08:57 PM
YES

But I have short legs so I have to slide off the seat to stop it :shock:

No joke :!: It does happen sometimes at low revs

Nick

johna
31-03-2011, 04:43 PM
Interesting information guys.

My curiosity got the better of me today at work and I grabbed the keys to a '09 120 series Prado crew car.

Sure as hell, with the engine running, I pressed hard on the pedal ..........

and it went all the way to the ground.....

This vehicle does get flogged but, it is inspected regularly and it passes its mine site safety inspections.

I am now agreeing that this may just be normal for the prado brake pedals.... Maybe to do with the ABS?

I am also looking into a Recall on the Master Cylinders on certain 120 series cars....

I did find some info on this by searching Pradopoint.....

I am calling Toyota tomorrow.... Will keep you posted with what I find out

There was a recall on the Prado 120 series for a master cylinder check. There was a weaping shaft seal in the booster and replaced under warranty if leaking.
They pulled them apart for inspection and if one drop of fluid visible, the units were replaced.
Mine was done and took 3 days for the parts to arrive and be replaced.
Have noticed that the pedal is no where near as solid prior to booster replacement, but no fading or failures, as yet..

PradoGXL08
03-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Hi All,

Interesting Topic.

I am having the same problem with my 08 D4D Prado, which has done 72K
The brake pedal sinks slowly to the floor while at a set of lights or on a hill.
I did have a near accident when the brakes seem to have failed, as it nearly didn't stop me.

I have done a 4WD Course and drove through a River as part of that course several times, and got caught in the floods around Ballarat, back in Feb /March.
I have had Toyota Bleed the brake fluid twice and checked the Discs and they have advised all is ok.

So it looks like a trip to the Brake Specialist and also a call to my Toyota Dealer as I am not happy with the why its braking.

Stuart

sweeks
19-04-2011, 05:01 AM
My 05 Prado does the same. Yesterday I pulled off the front and rear wheels to check the pads only to notice that they had more than 60% life on them. My mechanic did indicate that the pedal sinks to the floor.

I don't like the brakes and may try flushing out the break fluid to see if that makes a difference. I probably should get the master cylinder rubbers checked as well.

minh
19-04-2011, 07:46 PM
my 2005 GXL does exactly the same. Been trying to chase up a new master cylinder until I read this.

So its normal?

Stops the car fine. But if you keep your foot on the pedal with a bit of presure the pedal starts to sink!!!

LeighW
20-04-2011, 08:21 AM
Hi all,

I have a 2008 GXL with stability feature built in and have not noticed this issue, I
don't think it has a master cylinder, I think it uses some form of electric pump.
Will check it out tomorrow though and see if I get the same result.

Aside from that, doesn't matter if Toyota say it's normal or not, the fact is, it is dangerous!
If for instance your on a slipper up hill or down surface and you have to pump the brake pedal
you could quite easily loose control of the vehicle and have a serious accident.

In the case of the pedal sinking straight to the floor and the resultant panic few would think to
pump the pedal, it may not work any and then again you may not have time to anyway.
You can bet if it happened when your wife is driving she not going to.

I would be returning to the dealers concerned and make sure they note what you have said on
the service record of your vehicle and also to note that the pedal gradually sinking to the floor is
normal. And make sure they give you a copy of it. I would then be sending a registered letter with
delivery confirmation (keep a copy for yourself) to Toyota listing your concerns and stating that if
you have an accident as a result of pedal fade you will hold them reponsible be taking legal action
against Toyota to recover damages.

Every driver expects to have brake pedal pressure when they hit the brake pedal 100% of the time
even one failure should be fully investigated by the manufacture to see what happened. The
fact that several of you have experienced the same issue indicates there is a design issue which
needs to be fully investigated.

I remember this sort of thing happening many moons ago due to the cups in the master cylinder
turning inside out. It should not happen with modern dual system units, you should at least
have the front or back brakes working, both systems should not fail at the same time.

Any of you that are members of road assist organisations should also be trying to see if
they can push the safety aspect for you.

Cheers
LeighW

minh
21-04-2011, 08:25 AM
just an update.

My mate has 3 prados in his yard.

2 2005 models petrol
1 2009 Diesel model

all 3 and I say all 3. The pedal does sink!!! Exactly the same as my one.

Turn the engine on. Sit in the seat and give that pedal a firm push. Watch it sick slowly....

minh
21-04-2011, 08:25 AM
just an update.

My mate has 3 prados in his yard.

2 2005 models petrol
1 2009 Diesel model

all 3 and I say all 3. The pedal does sink!!! Exactly the same as my one.

Turn the engine on. Sit in the seat and give that pedal a firm push. Watch it sick slowly....

jarrah7rally
01-05-2011, 09:58 PM
mine is the same and yes admit I've had a few nervous moments with heavy traffic normally when I have a safety space and some dimwit decides that is thier spot.

I find using one heavy brake application is better than "riding the brakes"I discussed this issue with my mechanic (brother & toyota trained) and he confirms with me the the movement is normal, compared to the folks 90's corolla which has a heavy but feelable foot brake whihc I do prefer

diesels also use a vacuam pump is ths fuctioning proprley ?

yes I'd like a upgrade of the rotors and I'm still convinced I have gas out from the disc pads, warranty still applies so can't do anything about it as yet

Noobie
03-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Piggy made me

Morrie_1
11-09-2011, 01:29 PM
Yes well am afraid I have to join the growing list of pedal sinkers with my unbreakable 2006 Prado that has done only 94000k, I recently had my first set of pads replace,as well as having the discs machined, before this I was quite happy with everything, brakes were excellent,I had acceptable pedal like any normal vehicle, it certainly didn't sink to the floor like it does now.
I like others I have done it the hard way by going through the normal procedure's, like paying out a bucket of money to have a new master cylinder fitted only to find it didn't fix the problem...I like others have no confidence in the braking system, I find myself sitting at traffic lights nursing the pedal frighten to apply too much pressure, something has certainly changed with my Prado, it has become a dog to drive with this problem. Tomorrow I take it back to see what else can be done .....I am so glad I found this thread as I might be able to short cut the red tape a little (maybe)

Mozz

IMm29
12-09-2011, 10:24 PM
Got to a point that my 2004 Prado had a similar problem. Brakes were getting deep. Bite was very weak. One of the usual mechanics I go to almost gave me a heart attack by saying that only the front brakes were biting, and rears weren't. Thankfully, bleeding the brakes quite extensively solved the problem.

Morrie_1
19-09-2011, 08:32 AM
Last week an email was sent off to Toyota re this problem, am still waiting for a reply

Morrie_1
19-09-2011, 08:38 AM
Interesting information guys.

My curiosity got the better of me today at work and I grabbed the keys to a '09 120 series Prado crew car.

Sure as hell, with the engine running, I pressed hard on the pedal ..........

and it went all the way to the ground.....

This vehicle does get flogged but, it is inspected regularly and it passes its mine site safety inspections.

I am now agreeing that this may just be normal for the prado brake pedals.... Maybe to do with the ABS?

I am also looking into a Recall on the Master Cylinders on certain 120 series cars....

I did find some info on this by searching Pradopoint.....

I am calling Toyota tomorrow.... Will keep you posted with what I find out

So what was the answer ?????

ON888
20-09-2011, 02:10 PM
My brake pedal on my Prado does not do this. I have overhauled the brake system (rotors, pads and fluid) myself as a normal maintenance service. I've never let Toyota touch the car since they screwed up the first service. Being mechanically minded has its advantages.

pjorek
20-09-2011, 10:47 PM
just checked mine and when the car is switched on the pedal goes all the way to do floor. Sounds like it's the way it's supposed to be. If the air was present the pedal would gradually "grow" as you're pumping it. This only happens when car is switched on.

I've never tested emergency brakes on it, i'll give it a go and see what happens

Morrie_1
21-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Well I just had the car back to Toyota and they claim there isn't a problem, that is the way they are supposed to be .... I explained to them that I have have owned the car from new and never had reason to complain in 94,000k, unfortunatley they didn't want to listen....so I will be taking this matter futher .....stay posted ...I am one upset little vegemite at the moment so stay posted things may get interesting

Noobie
21-09-2011, 07:06 PM
Piggy made me

Morrie_1
28-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I have been to a Toyota dealer they inspected the car, I received a written report. read on >>>>>>>

This letter is to confirm that your vehicle Reg number *** which you have presented to us for inspection of the braking system.
The concern you have with the vehicle is that the brake pedal is traveling to the floor when stationary. This is normal operation for power assist vehicles as long as the vehicle is not moving forward or backward when brakes are applied.
As you have indicated when driving and appying the brakes the system extremely efficient as it almost throws you out of the seat, whilst you were here there was another vehicle to compare with, which was the same.
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................

So there you have it straight from the horses mouth, I can't say that I am totally convinced it is acceptable that a pedal goes to the floor under any circumstances, they did say that it was a common complaint they get from customers. My question is why would a company manufacture the perfect braking system that leaves so many people thinking it is faulty ....just doesnt add up to me.
I intend sharing my findings with Toyota head office, maybe they can convince me that I am imagining a change in my Prado braking system after 94,000 k's

Noobie
28-09-2011, 01:49 PM
Piggy made me

Morrie_1
28-09-2011, 06:55 PM
I will personally hand deliver the letter so there can be no excuses for not getting it.....


PRADO BRAKES "OHH WHAT A FEELING"

Prado BB
28-09-2011, 07:04 PM
mines an 03 and does this. My brother's was an 05 and did this......normal?

Noobie
28-09-2011, 07:08 PM
Piggy made me

Morrie_1
28-09-2011, 07:42 PM
well I won't be to Japan ...wots their email address there ??

Noobie
28-09-2011, 10:02 PM
Piggy made me

Morrie_1
29-09-2011, 10:50 AM
Thanks for that will put something together today

Morrie_1
04-10-2011, 07:07 AM
I received an email from Japan, Well at least I have the ball rolling ....Read on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thank you for your email of September 29, 2011 concerning your Prado.

We are sorry to learn of the situation you have encountered.

In order to ensure a thorough review of the situation as described, your email has been referred to:

TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION AUSTRALIA LTD.
Sydney Office
Cnr. Gannons Road Captain Cook Drive,
P.O.Box 187 Caringbah NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61-2-9710-3333

They are responsible for resolving customer concerns. You will be contacted by that office in the near future.

We regret that you have had a problem and are hopeful it can be resolved in a timely manner.

Best regards,

TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION

Prado BB
04-10-2011, 08:44 AM
pass the buck, flick pass, abrogate responsibility!!! all of these phrases spring to mind!
good luck

Morrie_1
04-10-2011, 10:00 AM
Well if that don't work maybe I will go to the media

ON888
04-10-2011, 02:10 PM
Power assisted brakes my arse. Pull the fuses to the DAT systems and see if it still does it. My prado does not do this at all and I own an MY05 Prado.

Morrie_1
05-10-2011, 06:59 AM
What is the DAT system ??

ON888
05-10-2011, 12:39 PM
What is the DAT system ??

Driver Assist Technology. If you pull the ABS fuse, it will disable all the power assist for the brakes and work like conventional brakes. If the pedal still goes to the floor even with all the electronic gizmos disabled, then it's not the "power assist" causing your problem.

Morrie_1
14-10-2011, 07:08 AM
Have a meeting with an engineer from Toyota today to inspect the car ...will keep you posted

ON888
14-10-2011, 12:07 PM
Subscribed.

Morrie_1
15-10-2011, 10:42 AM
Well the answer was ............the pedal seemed a little softer than normal ......after a few tests they deemed the brakes to be safe. It was normal for them to sink when stopped ..............I guess I have to live with that however I have one more thing to go and thats have genuine pads fitted, unfortunately it was fitted with non genuine pads when it was last serviced.....I may not make a difference but worth a try.................over to you guys I have had my fill of this

MuckUte
10-11-2011, 10:25 PM
I have seen a test on a Navara that had similar problem. Pedal goes to the floor when not moving, replaced master - no change so the brake joint did a line pressure test on the system and found that as the pedal crept to the floor the line pressure kept climbing indicating that there was no leak causing the issue. A pressure test on the Prado may answer some questions.

This doesn't explain the problems with the brakes failing completely though

Noobie
12-11-2011, 06:34 PM
Piggy made me

timmy
28-10-2012, 07:05 PM
The pedal on my 2003 Grande is getting worse. At first I thought I was just imagining it. Now the pedal car will slowly start to creep forward at a stop. I press down a bit more and you can feel the pedal begin to sink and it will begin to creep forward again. This continues until the pedal is almost on the floor.

I took it to a mechanic and he said it was the master cylinder. He priced a new one $3000 for my Grande ($700 for the GXL) Big price difference. When he looked for other options he found nothing. No after market ones. Re sleeving was also not an option because the master cylinder unit is a sealed item.

$3000 for a master cylinder. Are you kidding? And from what I'm reading here it might not even solve the problem.

Any suggestions that don't include selling the car?

fatboydave
29-10-2012, 01:03 PM
I've never liked the "lack of" brake pedal feel in the 120 from new. It never inspires confidence, period.

I'll take our old Volvo where your head almost hits the windscreen if you hover your foot over the pedal or my 1969 Mini with non boosted disc brakes over this any day or even our old Defender.

timmy
05-11-2012, 06:40 AM
My Grande just went on sale yesterday. Shame because it is a quality vehicle otherwise. But there is no way I'm spending over $3000 for a simple master cylinder. I'll go for a GXL or base model next time where the M Cylinder is around 700. Or god forbid, check out some other brands.

timmy
12-02-2013, 06:37 AM
Update. Pedal became progressively worse before I could sell the car. Had a specialist look at it and gave me two options.
1. Replace with new unit $3238.00 installed.
2.Send to Melbourne and have the cylinder reconditioned $1600.00

I opted for the recondition, but after a week I was told they were unable to 'get to' the parts that needed repair. So I had the new unit installed for $3238.

Brakes are perfect now. Bank account looks like shit.

Lesson...Get a GXL next time.

Anth120playdo
12-02-2013, 04:18 PM
In reply to post 1#

its normal in most vehicles if you push the pedal while its running, not moving, it will go down a long way.

Then drive and push it to the same amount, you should go throught the windscreen.

Depending how bad it is you could have a problem and have a brake specialist look at it.

If Toyo say its normal, well they should know.

butane8
12-02-2013, 09:28 PM
hi all, may not be much use , but depending on who's reading, i run a 2005 gxl, manual, and i recall that when the prado was new too me ,, i used too spend alot time playing,,, listening,, etc
one night i was in my drive , engine was hot etc, and i climbed in and started too get a feel for the pedal ,,,,,, but too my surprise it did the same and seemed to fade to the floor... being human.
i did the same pumped it up and tried again and again ,, but each time the fade was less, but i only have a.b.s , on the gxl... (6 speed manual)

i checked everything from that day on , and never once have i felt the prado brakes unsettling , the abs works nice on the tight dirt corners and all is sweet on the road... and it has never used a single drop of brake fluid, hot or cold,,,
the rotors are goin quite well till this day and the pads are acccordingly showing the 130,k from front to back but still nice and chunky for another 20 ,k easy... ... after reading more into it previously i put my worries into other area's that need addressing than the brakes, but dont get me wrong , mine has never faulted underway or it would be a different mattter, interesting read ,,, cheers butane